1 Topic by OcO (edited by OcO 2011-07-07 21:10:11)

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Topic: Suggestion- Boost to Medium Mining Lasers

I tried a quick 1 cycle each of a T1 small mining laser and a T1 medium mining laser and was completely surprised to see they each mine the same amount of ore per cycle.  I think the medium lasers should mine slightly more per cycle than the smalls.

The calculations below are based on the default stats for a standard small mining laser and standard medium mining laser.  These take no skill boosts into consideration as the relative % should remain the same since both lasers are effected by the same skills.

CPU-- Sm=40, Med=50...Med is 125%
Reactor-- Sm=30, Med=150...Med is 500%
Mass-- Sm=400, Med=1000...Med is 250%
Accu-- Sm=17, Med=85...Med is 500%
Cycle-- Sm=18, Med=12...Med is 33% faster than SM.

The fitting requirements for a medium over a small are IMO to much for only a 33% increase in cycle time. 

If you compare this to weapons a medium weapon does more base damage than a small(small standard laser 100%, medium standard 138%) and the ammo does about twice as much as the smaller version.  There are no medium mining charges which would increase base mining yield per cycle.  Giving a small increase to the laser itself would make sense, though I'd love to see medium mining charges added instead/as well with 2x base yield of a small in keeping with other ammo.


I haven't tested it but all the above possibly applies to harvesting as well.

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Re: Suggestion- Boost to Medium Mining Lasers

Minerals all mine the same amount. the important module for mining is tunings. They're stack very nicely making more tunings more powerful.
Mining is about yield through tunings and cycles time through module size.

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Re: Suggestion- Boost to Medium Mining Lasers

I think the trouble here is the "only" in front of the 33%. That's really a huge difference.

The large mining bots are designed with the expectation of those higher fitting requirements, in addition to there being adequate extensions to reduce them.

The base yield for Titanium is 750. Most advanced miners have a 8s cycle time and +100% yeild with tuners and extensions. Making it 1500 ore per cycle * 5 /8s = 937.5 ore/ sec - 3.375 M ore / hour.

Increase that mining time by 33% is 625 ore/sec - 2.225 M ore / hour

1.15 M more ore / hour if all you did was swap out Smalls for Mediums.

Changing the base yeild by 2x for med's would mean 6.75 M / hour or an increase of

4.525 M ore / Hour more than 5 smalls.

In NIC terms, that's 2.25 Million more NIC by simply upgrading your mining lasers.

Maybe something like 1% to 5% yeild bonus by tier for mediums, which would bring it inline with bonus's available through tuners. 20% would be OP, 100% is way way too much.

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Re: Suggestion- Boost to Medium Mining Lasers

Arga wrote:

The base yield for Titanium is 750. Most advanced miners have a 8s cycle time and +100% yeild with tuners and extensions. Making it 1500 ore per cycle * 5 /8s = 937.5 ore/ sec - 3.375 M ore / hour.

I asume you just woke and are still sleepy or just hangover, since advanced miners get cycle times way below 8 seconds. Obviously, you'd have to calc in reload times etc, but general rule is that decent extensions/robot miner is generating about 250u per hour. Excellent one can reach up to 300u.

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Re: Suggestion- Boost to Medium Mining Lasers

I was assuming T1 Mining lasers and middle road / extensions as advanced, and the expert's would be T4 and sub 6 sec cycles; sorry for the confusion; with beginner and Intermeidate being Argano/Termis bot based.

U/hr is really dependant on mineral 'fluffiness' : )

But your point is well taken, at the expert end, the difference would be even more exaggerated. I don't see a small % as game breaking, but we can certainly live without it too.

I didn't address the different charges, med vs small, but I would say no to that simply because we don't need another complete set of charges for the same thing. I could actually see devs going the other way, like harvesting, to simply a 'mining charge' and then perhaps a small and medium in that case.

6 Reply by Alexander (edited by Alexander 2011-07-07 23:18:10)

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Re: Suggestion- Boost to Medium Mining Lasers

I have about level 5 to 7 in every mining extensions that increases yield or changes cycle time. I am able to mine 270U an hour of the smallest materials with 2.22 minutes an hour spent reloading. Someone with higher mining skills than myself could easily pull another 30% more than me and have a reduced amount of time spent reloading as well as having a higher cycle time. This makes them able to be at least 50% better than my miner if using an Mk2 and full T4 fittings with mostly 8 and 10 extensions.

That's a lot of mining for a 8 month old character.

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Re: Suggestion- Boost to Medium Mining Lasers

Kewl  I see and understand what everyone is saying.

I really wasn't looking at compounded skills added into the equation since I'm nowhere near those lvls yet myself.

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Re: Suggestion- Boost to Medium Mining Lasers

Arga wrote:

U/hr is really dependant on mineral 'fluffiness' : )

Actually u per hour is pretty stable;)

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Re: Suggestion- Boost to Medium Mining Lasers

Of course... yes. Base yeilds are lower for the fluffier ores which balances out to less ore/hour but similar U's.

Thanks for making me check that : )

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Re: Suggestion- Boost to Medium Mining Lasers

I agree medium miners needed a bigger inprovemt over smalls
Latest patch notes says
"Change: Reduced the cycle time of small miner and small harvester modules."
So mediums now have a smaller advantage than before

The discussion earlier in the thread misses the point, skills apply to small miners as well as medium, so wehether skills gove 50% or 250% boost does not matter. Fitting small miners to a termis allows a LWF and tank to be fitted, with little reduction in mining ability.

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Re: Suggestion- Boost to Medium Mining Lasers

pre patch there was absolutely no reason to equip smalls...

really

after first login, you can join a corp, fit a termis with two medium mining laser, and two smalls
a few days later you switch completely to mediums, because you can (they cost nothing, they mine faster, they are better...)
if that corp your joined lets you mine on alpha island in a group, and a decent wallet, they will even supply you with t2 medium prototypes to go out with 4 of them on day two.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

12 Reply by Arga (edited by Arga 2011-07-08 18:50:33)

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Re: Suggestion- Boost to Medium Mining Lasers

Medium lasers are 33% faster, so regardless of your skills, you'll mine 33% more ore with medium lasers, which I wouldn't call 'little reduction'. However, you do present a good use for small modules when security is more important than yield. You can't mine anything dead.

Consider that a T4 indy tuner provides 10/10% and costs as much as a whole Termis (if you can find one for sale), upgrading to medium miners gets you 33% and won't break the bank.

Edit: I see, the patch notes are for today. What did they change the small miner cycle times to?