1 Topic by Purgatory (edited by Purgatory 2011-04-12 00:44:43)

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Topic: MK 2 bots need more cpu/reactor

I thought that because MK2 bots have an extra hi and lo slot that they'd get higher cpu/reactor

MK2 tyrannos is basically impossible to get a fit where it actually uses all its slots. CPU is the main problem, even though I have most of the cpu enhancing/reduction skills at level 10 or close to it I still can't get a full fitting. Even for another 50k ep invested i'd be lucky to squeeze an extra few cpu out of it and considering i've got none spare as it is it looks like it'll be impossible to ever fit anything in the misc slots.

That's when I suddenly thought to myself "why the hell bother with this junk when a gropho can do everything it can do and more and it does it better, and for a smaller price". - If I could actually fit stuff in my misc slots this balance things out a bit more, perhaps make the MK2 tyrannos almost worth using.

I have about 3 cpu spare with a crazy amount of ep invested to boost it, can't boost it anymore.

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Re: MK 2 bots need more cpu/reactor

Purgatory wrote:

I thought that because MK2 bots have an extra hi and lo slot that they'd get higher cpu/reactor

MK2 tyrannos is basically impossible to get a fit where it actually uses all its slots. CPU is the main problem, even though I have most of the cpu enhancing/reduction skills at level 10 or close to it I still can't get a full fitting. Even for another 50k ep invested i'd be lucky to squeeze an extra few cpu out of it and considering i've got none spare as it is it looks like it'll be impossible to ever fit anything in the misc slots.

That's when I suddenly thought to myself "why the hell bother with this junk when a gropho can do everything it can do and more and it does it better, and for a smaller price". - If I could actually fit stuff in my misc slots this balance things out a bit more, perhaps make the MK2 tyrannos almost worth using.

I have about 3 cpu spare with a crazy amount of ep invested to boost it, can't boost it anymore.

Well, Let me offer a counter point:

Running my own Mk2 Tyrannos and I don't even have maxed fitting extensions (something like data proc 8 or 9, armor / weapon effiency 5) for CPU use and mostly T4 equipment (=CPU hungry) only 3 hardeners are T1 since T4 just aren't available on market and I'm only 1 (That's right, ONE!) CPU short of being able to ditch the coproc I got in the 5th headslot atm. After I get my fitting extensions upped I guess I would have enough free CPU to drop a T2 armor tuning or something into the 5th head slot.

Imo the decision to let Mk2's have 1 more head & leg slot but no additional fitting power was perfect. Now you're forced to make decisions on how to fit your mech, not just "select best mods, drag'n'drop"

Also, I got a Mk2 Castel, completely kitted out with T2 mods, and it has CPU / Power to spare...

3 Reply by Purgatory (edited by Purgatory 2011-04-12 12:47:21)

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Re: MK 2 bots need more cpu/reactor

"Also, I got a Mk2 Castel, completely kitted out with T2 mods, and it has CPU / Power to spare..."

In that case maybe they should just give the tyrannos more CPU since it obviously doesn't have enough.

I have data processing 10 and weapon cpu reduction skill at level 8 and the others at around level 6. Even if I was to train ALL of the remaining skills to level 10 I would still only free up about another 10-15 cpu at the most.

4 Reply by Purgatory (edited by Purgatory 2011-04-12 12:50:15)

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Re: MK 2 bots need more cpu/reactor

And using a head slot cpu boosting module in a combat fit is pure fail. None of this matters anymore anyway, the tyrannos MK2 sucks because of cpu/reactor (mainly cpu) issues and will be replaced by a gropho every time by any competent player. A gropho is simply a tyrannos MK2 with 50% more firepower and enough CPU/reactor to make everything fit.

5 Reply by Annihilator (edited by Annihilator 2011-04-12 17:18:04)

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Re: MK 2 bots need more cpu/reactor

gropho has
- no turret slots,
- no accumulator recharge bonus
- higher hitsize
- lower sensor-strength

so, i disagree. tyrannos mk2 just has different fitting posibilities then the gropho.

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6 Reply by Purgatory (edited by Purgatory 2011-04-13 23:28:34)

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Re: MK 2 bots need more cpu/reactor

Annihilator wrote:

gropho has
- no turret slots,
- no accumulator recharge bonus
- higher hitsize
- lower sensor-strength

so, i disagree. tyrannos mk2 just has different fitting posibilities then the gropho.

Tyrannos MK2 will never fit anything on a worthwhile setup besides 4 launchers, not enough cpu to fit turrets aswell, or anything into the misc slots.

None of the other things matter that much when you can't even fill your last 2 slots. I'm not just some low sp or average sp guy, i'll never be able to fill those last 2 slots with anything no matter how much ep I invest into cpu/reactor stuff.

Gropho gets an extra 50% firepower and enough reactor/cpu to fill every slot. Those last two misc slots can make the difference between being able to fire with a missile optimal range of close to 800 or just 650, when duoing with another gropho of similar setup. Two MK2 tyrannos could not achieve this because they can't get cpu to use those 2 misc slots.

I also don't see how i'm not the only one to see how it's incredibly dumb to make MK2 bots fairly exclusive, also "better" by giving them extra slots and then not giving them extra cpu/reactor to make use of those slots. If the game has been balanced around making sure people have just enough cpu/reactor with the right skills to fit their bots then how can they ever be expected to properly fit an MK2 bot.

But apparently this game isn't balanced properly, because an MK2 castel has no fitting issues and yet a MK2 tyrannos has big fitting issues.

7 Reply by Arga (edited by Arga 2011-04-14 00:58:51)

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Re: MK 2 bots need more cpu/reactor

The MK II doesn't just get extra slots, it also has an additional bonus.

So even fitted the same as the MK I, the MK II will do more damage.

Is the extra % worth the additional 20M NIC, nope, which is why people aren't building or buying them.

This doesn't mean that they won't be useful, only that with the current fits, and current game content, they are more for epeen.

Hope you didn't waste money and materials building one, and your just looking at a fitting tool.

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Re: MK 2 bots need more cpu/reactor

Purgatory wrote:

Tyrannos MK2 will never fit anything on a worthwhile setup besides 4 launchers, not enough cpu to fit turrets aswell, or anything into the misc slots

Erh? As I previously stated, my TyrMk2 is fully kitted out: 4x T4 med launcher + 2x T4 med autocannon, T4 sens amp, 3x T4 missile tuning, T4 med armor rep, 3x T1 armor hard + 1 free head slot now since yesterday, and I'm already 4 CPU below needed (Relevant extensions: Data Processing 9, Weapon Optimisation 7, Armor Optimisation 6) I fully expect to be able to drop a T2 armor tuning in the last headslot after maxing out extensions mentioned above

Purgatory wrote:

But apparently this game isn't balanced properly, because an MK2 castel has no fitting issues and yet a MK2 tyrannos has big fitting issues.

You again nicely forget to mention that I SAID my Castel Mk2 had fully T2 kit (lowest cpu used in mods) so of course it fits with room to spare. I never even tried to T4 kit it, prolly doesn't fit.

Arga wrote:

So even fitted the same as the MK I, the MK II will do more damage.

Hope you didn't waste money and materials building one, and your just looking at a fitting tool.

The bonus for TyrMk2 is 1% more accu per lvl, so dmg wise it's on par with it's Mk1 brother.

I did build mine. Waste of NIC? Possibly. Waste of materials? Possible again. Building something just because you CAN? Priceless. Also I'm pretty sure the people I bought the materials from aren't at all peeved of getting some extra NIC smile

FYI: It took 14mil NIC worth of materials + 2.7mil NIC for a Tyrannos itself (I was gonna use my own, but then it got it's *** handed to it by a Thelodica Observer Spawn III tongue) + something like 1mil NIC build cost.

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Re: MK 2 bots need more cpu/reactor

also useless head and leg slots on sequers and lithus... mk2 bots should have some of their attributes upgraded, like transports should have more cargo, thats why its a mk2... its better, stronger, more expencive in skill to use and cash to build...

its like, we need to fill those head and leg slots with coprocessors and coreactors...

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Re: MK 2 bots need more cpu/reactor

head and legslot on lithus is by far not useless - im using those as nexus buffer chars, while the Sequer mk1 can't run more then one nexus at a time, the mk2 should be able to fit  CPU- and Accumulator-equip to run two or three of them.

btw, i wonder what purgatory wants to fit in his tyrannos MK2 that he runs out of CPU so easily.

sounds like range extender in headslot, and drainer as arms (which is a fail as Neuts would use less CPU and he didn't list the CPU reduction extension for drain/neut)

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Re: MK 2 bots need more cpu/reactor

Vosyen Makarovich wrote:

I did build mine. Waste of NIC? Possibly. Waste of materials? Possible again. Building something just because you CAN? Priceless. Also I'm pretty sure the people I bought the materials from aren't at all peeved of getting some extra NIC smile

FYI: It took 14mil NIC worth of materials + 2.7mil NIC for a Tyrannos itself (I was gonna use my own, but then it got it's *** handed to it by a Thelodica Observer Spawn III tongue) + something like 1mil NIC build cost.

Sweet, I was just estimating 20M based on 25% CT that I have, but if you got a 50% CT that would of course make it much more cost effective to build, gratz!

I was being a little trolly with the rest of it to Purg because he keeps stating that "Tyrannos MK2 will never fit anything on a worthwhile" but never mentions what he's trying to fit, which translated means "Tyrannos MK2 will never fit what I want to put on it" as opposed to something that is actually 'worthwhile' as you have already shown.

Please let us know what you are trying to fit.

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Re: MK 2 bots need more cpu/reactor

Arga wrote:

The MK II doesn't just get extra slots, it also has an additional bonus.

So even fitted the same as the MK I, the MK II will do more damage.

Is the extra % worth the additional 20M NIC, nope, which is why people aren't building or buying them.

This doesn't mean that they won't be useful, only that with the current fits, and current game content, they are more for epeen.

Hope you didn't waste money and materials building one, and your just looking at a fitting tool.

You just said it right there. MK2 mech/heavies are worthless as they are now, they may aswell have never bothered introducing them. They could fix this by simply giving them extra cpu/reactor for the extra slots.

13 Reply by Purgatory (edited by Purgatory 2011-04-14 19:35:46)

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Re: MK 2 bots need more cpu/reactor

Annihilator wrote:

head and legslot on lithus is by far not useless - im using those as nexus buffer chars, while the Sequer mk1 can't run more then one nexus at a time, the mk2 should be able to fit  CPU- and Accumulator-equip to run two or three of them.

btw, i wonder what purgatory wants to fit in his tyrannos MK2 that he runs out of CPU so easily.

sounds like range extender in headslot, and drainer as arms (which is a fail as Neuts would use less CPU and he didn't list the CPU reduction extension for drain/neut)

No drainers, neuts, or anything like that in my fitting, what I want to fit in misc is low cpu cost, and it still is impossible to fit (due to lack of cpu)

You're right about the range extenders though, I have quite a few of them.

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Re: MK 2 bots need more cpu/reactor

Apparently they aren't worthless to Voysen, so the democratic voting for balance changes at the moment are tied at 1 worthless and 1 useable.

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Re: MK 2 bots need more cpu/reactor

Purgatory, looks like you just need to fit your TyrMK2 differently.  Like someone else posted he was able to easily fit his with low fitting skills.

For me in a KainMK2 there are a combination of fits that would never work and that's fine. I can still build a KainMK2 a number of ways that still works. 

You should do the same for your TyrMK2, don't try to force a fit that obviously is too cpu intensive, be flexible and you will find fits that will work.


Purgatory wrote:

And using a head slot cpu boosting module in a combat fit is pure fail.

I disagree with you, and unfortunately you are not alone in your thinking.

Even within m2s there are guys that get trolled for having "fail-fits" (even I was trolled several months ago but that has stopped now). I have found that there are pilots out there that get inventive and build some devastating mechs (specialty role) that are not typical in fits.

If such a fit requires a cpu booster in the head to make work then who are you (or anyone else for that matter) to say it's "fail".

Also, to make any pvp fit/mech work it's 50% the fitting itself and 50% is how you use the mech/fittings on the field.

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16 Reply by Campana (edited by Campana 2011-04-14 20:55:07)

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Re: MK 2 bots need more cpu/reactor

I wasn't planning to post in here because I haven't actually tried out any MkII robot, and haven't specced into Pelistal at all, so consider this a question rather than an argument.

If the Tyrannos Mk II has one extra head slot and you fit a CPU booster in it...doesn't that render the extra headslot a bit pointless? Because then you are back to the number of headslots that the MK I has.

And that's leaving aside the argument of fitting CPU boosters on combat bots at all.

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Re: MK 2 bots need more cpu/reactor

Campana wrote:

I wasn't planning to post in here because I haven't actually tried out any MkII robot, and haven't specced into Pelistal at all, so consider this a question rather than an argument.

If the Tyrannos Mk II has one extra head slot and you fit a CPU booster in it...doesn't that render the extra headslot a bit pointless? Because then you are back to the number of headslots that the MK I has.

And that's leaving aside the argument of fitting CPU boosters on combat bots at all.

You've got the additional leg slot not to mention that fitting that CPU booster might allow you to fit something into one of your previous 4 slots that you might not have been able to before.I use a co-processor on my Artemis MK2 as it lets me fit modules I wouldn't otherwise be able to fit due to prior cpu constraints, I also get to fit another module in the low slot.

18 Reply by Purgatory (edited by Purgatory 2011-04-15 00:04:16)

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Re: MK 2 bots need more cpu/reactor

Mongolia Jones wrote:

Purgatory, looks like you just need to fit your TyrMK2 differently.  Like someone else posted he was able to easily fit his with low fitting skills.

For me in a KainMK2 there are a combination of fits that would never work and that's fine. I can still build a KainMK2 a number of ways that still works. 

You should do the same for your TyrMK2, don't try to force a fit that obviously is too cpu intensive, be flexible and you will find fits that will work.


Purgatory wrote:

And using a head slot cpu boosting module in a combat fit is pure fail.

I disagree with you, and unfortunately you are not alone in your thinking.

Even within m2s there are guys that get trolled for having "fail-fits" (even I was trolled several months ago but that has stopped now). I have found that there are pilots out there that get inventive and build some devastating mechs (specialty role) that are not typical in fits.

If such a fit requires a cpu booster in the head to make work then who are you (or anyone else for that matter) to say it's "fail".

Also, to make any pvp fit/mech work it's 50% the fitting itself and 50% is how you use the mech/fittings on the field.

The moment i lose a slot to fit a head slot cpu booster my fit fails, the gropho doesn't suffer this problem. T2 gropho would though. My fit achieves 730+ range when paired with another mech of the same fitting, the gropho can do it but the MK2 does not have enough cpu to use the misc slots.

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Re: MK 2 bots need more cpu/reactor

Purgatory wrote:

The moment i lose a slot to fit a head slot cpu booster my fit fails, the gropho doesn't suffer this problem. T2 gropho would though. My fit achieves 730+ range when paired with another mech of the same fitting, the gropho can do it but the MK2 does not have enough cpu to use the misc slots.

What makes you think a Tyrannos should be able to do something just because it's big brother the Gopho can.

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Styx wrote:
Purgatory wrote:

The moment i lose a slot to fit a head slot cpu booster my fit fails, the gropho doesn't suffer this problem. T2 gropho would though. My fit achieves 730+ range when paired with another mech of the same fitting, the gropho can do it but the MK2 does not have enough cpu to use the misc slots.

What makes you think a Tyrannos should be able to do something just because it's big brother the Gopho can.

This is a tyrannos Mk2 we're talking about, not a tyrannos. I think the Mk2 should be able to do something better than the Mk1, otherwise what's the point in having an Mk2? There may be some low cost fits that can make use of the extra slots on the Mk2 but those are few.

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Vosyen Makarovich wrote:
Purgatory wrote:

Tyrannos MK2 will never fit anything on a worthwhile setup besides 4 launchers, not enough cpu to fit turrets aswell, or anything into the misc slots

Erh? As I previously stated, my TyrMk2 is fully kitted out: 4x T4 med launcher + 2x T4 med autocannon, T4 sens amp, 3x T4 missile tuning, T4 med armor rep, 3x T1 armor hard + 1 free head slot now since yesterday, and I'm already 4 CPU below needed (Relevant extensions: Data Processing 9, Weapon Optimisation 7, Armor Optimisation 6) I fully expect to be able to drop a T2 armor tuning in the last headslot after maxing out extensions mentioned above

Purgatory wrote:

But apparently this game isn't balanced properly, because an MK2 castel has no fitting issues and yet a MK2 tyrannos has big fitting issues.

You again nicely forget to mention that I SAID my Castel Mk2 had fully T2 kit (lowest cpu used in mods) so of course it fits with room to spare. I never even tried to T4 kit it, prolly doesn't fit.

Arga wrote:

So even fitted the same as the MK I, the MK II will do more damage.

Hope you didn't waste money and materials building one, and your just looking at a fitting tool.

The bonus for TyrMk2 is 1% more accu per lvl, so dmg wise it's on par with it's Mk1 brother.

I did build mine. Waste of NIC? Possibly. Waste of materials? Possible again. Building something just because you CAN? Priceless. Also I'm pretty sure the people I bought the materials from aren't at all peeved of getting some extra NIC smile

FYI: It took 14mil NIC worth of materials + 2.7mil NIC for a Tyrannos itself (I was gonna use my own, but then it got it's *** handed to it by a Thelodica Observer Spawn III tongue) + something like 1mil NIC build cost.

I'd just like to point out that medium autocannons have extremely low cpu fitting reqs, so it's no wonder you can get your setup to work. You also have no range extenders, and these use up a lot more cpu than any module you're using in the head slots.

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Purgatory wrote:

I'd just like to point out that medium autocannons have extremely low cpu fitting reqs, so it's no wonder you can get your setup to work. You also have no range extenders, and these use up a lot more cpu than any module you're using in the head slots.

Yes, I'm quite aware of that, and by your previous posts you're obviously TRYING to get your TyrMk2 to perform the same task as a Gropho, which by sheer logic of it just isn't possible. Heavy Mechs are HEAVY for a reason, Tyrannos isn't that.

They're designed for different tasks and so TRYING to fit one like it's big brother is doomed to fail, HARD.

Just accept the fact you need to think differently while fitting your Mk2.

The best realworld example of the differences I can give you is this:

- Tyrannos is M48 Patton, decent workhorse of a tank
- Tyrannos Mk2 is M60 Patton, basically upgraded M48, a bit better armor / armament (in this case 1+1 more slots), also suffers from the same problems as it's M48 brother (underpowered, high profile, heavy, slow)
- Gropho is M1 Abrams, it will nuke the bejesus out of the other two and laugh like a maniac while doing so, it's on absolutely different level of performance.

To quote certain other sci-fi mmo: Adapt or Die.

23 Reply by Purgatory (edited by Purgatory 2011-04-15 12:24:26)

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Re: MK 2 bots need more cpu/reactor

Vosyen Makarovich wrote:
Purgatory wrote:

I'd just like to point out that medium autocannons have extremely low cpu fitting reqs, so it's no wonder you can get your setup to work. You also have no range extenders, and these use up a lot more cpu than any module you're using in the head slots.

Yes, I'm quite aware of that, and by your previous posts you're obviously TRYING to get your TyrMk2 to perform the same task as a Gropho, which by sheer logic of it just isn't possible. Heavy Mechs are HEAVY for a reason, Tyrannos isn't that.

They're designed for different tasks and so TRYING to fit one like it's big brother is doomed to fail, HARD.

Just accept the fact you need to think differently while fitting your Mk2.

The best realworld example of the differences I can give you is this:

- Tyrannos is M48 Patton, decent workhorse of a tank
- Tyrannos Mk2 is M60 Patton, basically upgraded M48, a bit better armor / armament (in this case 1+1 more slots), also suffers from the same problems as it's M48 brother (underpowered, high profile, heavy, slow)
- Gropho is M1 Abrams, it will nuke the bejesus out of the other two and laugh like a maniac while doing so, it's on absolutely different level of performance.

To quote certain other sci-fi mmo: Adapt or Die.

You mean the that same sci-fi mmo where Mk2 versions of the ships are actually worth using? They not only have more module slots, but also more armor, shields, powergrid, cpu, bonuses and so on? I could be talking about both faction ships or tech 2 ships too, since both types of "Mk2s" have all of these extras. But hey, I guess none of that worked out too well for EVE, and EVE failed right? No wait, it's quite the contrary.

I also don't know what it is you think i'm trying to fit, since you say i'm trying to fit in like a gropho, what does that mean exactly? If you think i'm trying to fit neuts or drains, you'd be wrong. I also don't know anyone who fits a gropho with the setup i'm after, so you're probably wrong on all counts. The only reason I won't state what it is is so that everyone doesn't start copying my idea.

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Purgatory wrote:

This is a tyrannos Mk2 we're talking about, not a tyrannos. I think the Mk2 should be able to do something better than the Mk1, otherwise what's the point in having an Mk2? There may be some low cost fits that can make use of the extra slots on the Mk2 but those are few.

It's still a Tyrannos which is quite a a few weeks below the Gropho when computing the EP requirements for a good pilot in both. Even though it may be a MK2 I don't see why you seem to think it should be able to do something just because the Gropho can.

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styx already stated the key arguments:
- they got two more slots that you can use for CPU and Reactor modules which you could not fit onto a regular Tyrannos without removing something else.

this alone makes mk2 bots intresting for those who did follow a different extension-plan, with more robotic extensions then electronic/engineering.

a regular tyrannos's weak point compared to its main foe, the kain, is that it can't fit repair + lwf + 2x hardener to neutralise its resistance-holes.

or Vosyen Makarovich's example - he fitted something into that free headslot that you wouldn't normally do on a combat bot - a repair tuning.

from what i read your attempting to fit your tyrannos mk2 with tunings, range extender and remote sensor amps (probably as a team or dualb-boxing fit) to get the maximum range.
I wouldnt be surprised if you're trying to fit a masking module in there which is another cpu heavy piece.

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