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Topic: Proposed critical damage/movement rule-set additions.

I want to suggest some rules that might add some realism and flavour to Perpetuum.  They should be fairly easy to code.

If a bot (PC or NPC) suffers more than 75% damage to its armour in less than one second, that bot has a 25% chance of exploding due to catastrophic failure.

Any bot that has its armour reduced beyond 50% shall suffer a 25% reduction to its top speed and rate of fire.  If a bots armour is damaged beyond 75% its speed shall and rate of fire shall be reduced 50% to represent mechanical failure.  Bots running around with full functionality and only a sliver of armour seems unrealistic. 

Anytime a bot receives a 'Critical Hit' from an opponent, it will have a 5% chance to lose acquisition of any targeted bots.  This would represent a bot being hit in that 'sweet spot' that flickers power to the targeting computer temporarily.   

Bots using weapon modules against targets while moving should suffer a penalty to their 'to hit' probability.  That penalty should also be present if the target is also moving.  This would represent that it is tougher to hit moving targets and tougher to 'fire on the run'.  Modules and skills could be implemented to reduce these penalties.  These penalties should be slight but meaningful. 

I think these rules might add a few elements to combat that we don't currently have and give Perpetuum PvP combat a bit of a surprise element and flare.  Your opinions are welcome.

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Re: Proposed critical damage/movement rule-set additions.

Devs are at some point adding in targeting different sections, so I can see your idea being applied there. Like 75% damage to the torso reduces damage output or rate of fire, or dmg to legs reducing speed.

randomly blowing up with a large hit sounds fun, but I don't think i would like it if it happened to me. Also, with the new bots sploding causing AOE, could be a crazy chain reaction in a blob...

In general though, the 'effects' from your damage all mimic the effects of modules, Demob/ECM, which I think would generally make the best fits ones that could do superior damage with the possiblity of 'free' module effects.

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Re: Proposed critical damage/movement rule-set additions.

I remember that stuff in PlanetSide with BFR's. When your shields are going down and you starting to get damage with armor, everything falls apart, speed drops, accuracy and rate of fire falls and you become a punch bag.

No. This feature is goddamn annoying. If game will have this I will raegquit without regrets.

None shall pass!

4 Reply by Legedric Warstrike (edited by Legedric Warstrike 2011-04-13 11:29:22)

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Re: Proposed critical damage/movement rule-set additions.

Kristan is right... now you still have the possibility to fight while being < 25% of life and perhaps you still may turn a fight with low armor. Everything else (e.g. the ideas mentioned above) would end a fight after half of the time and I would just wait to be blown up while I may do nothing against it...

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Re: Proposed critical damage/movement rule-set additions.

Uncle Mo wrote:

If a bot (PC or NPC) suffers more than 75% damage to its armour in less than one second, that bot has a 25% chance of exploding due to catastrophic failure.

I don't really see any point in this feature. I mean when you take massive damage like that you are going to live like less than 1s longer anyways.

Uncle Mo wrote:

Any bot that has its armour reduced beyond 50% shall suffer a 25% reduction to its top speed and rate of fire.  If a bots armour is damaged beyond 75% its speed shall and rate of fire shall be reduced 50% to represent mechanical failure.  Bots running around with full functionality and only a sliver of armour seems unrealistic.

From realism point of view that would be an excellent idea, but from gameplay pov that is horrendous idea. When you take damage you become a crippled punching bag that can't do anything but go to afk and watch while you die? No... Do.Not.Want.

Uncle Mo wrote:

Anytime a bot receives a 'Critical Hit' from an opponent, it will have a 5% chance to lose acquisition of any targeted bots.  This would represent a bot being hit in that 'sweet spot' that flickers power to the targeting computer temporarily.

As already mentioned in above post they may add bodypart targeting function at somepoint to the game. It could possibly be integrated to that system I guess, yes.

Uncle Mo wrote:

Bots using weapon modules against targets while moving should suffer a penalty to their 'to hit' probability.  That penalty should also be present if the target is also moving.  This would represent that it is tougher to hit moving targets and tougher to 'fire on the run'.  Modules and skills could be implemented to reduce these penalties.  These penalties should be slight but meaningful.

I never played beta, but I have browsed the beta post archives and iirc they were actually planning to do something like that, but instead they ended up with the static hit dispersion system.

6 Reply by Andrew Redburn (edited by Andrew Redburn 2011-04-13 12:27:08)

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Re: Proposed critical damage/movement rule-set additions.

With regards to targeting, I see no reason, why it should be changed except for maybe manual targeting fps style...

Autotracking works pretty good already and will be even better in the future, so I imagine that autotargeting and hitting is simply a matter of target size, distance and speed changes of the target. Within the limited optimal and falloff ranges in this game and the limited speed (100km/h = 27m/s) I would say the effects of speed and movement vector are neglegable and sufficient solved with hit dispersion. (IMHO)

Different hit zones like in Battletech and with different damage to your equipment is a good idea imho and I would even support crippling movement and targeting due to damaged MODULES but not amount of left armor. If armor percentage is the factor, pve won't be fun and pvp even less, due to the nature of being targeted and shot by lots of enemies at a time.

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Re: Proposed critical damage/movement rule-set additions.

Uncle Mo wrote:

Any bot that has its armour reduced beyond 50% shall suffer a 25% reduction to its top speed and rate of fire.

Stacks the odds of the fight too much against whoever does the most damage first. If you've managed to do that you already have an advantage, why stack it more?

Uncle Mo wrote:

If a bot (PC or NPC) suffers more than 75% damage to its armour in less than one second, that bot has a 25% chance of exploding due to catastrophic failure

If a bot loses 75% of it's armour in less than one second, that means it's being focus fired and will probably die anyway so a 25% chance to blow up doesn't add anything.

Uncle Mo wrote:

Anytime a bot receives a 'Critical Hit' from an opponent, it will have a 5% chance to lose acquisition of any targeted bots. [...]
Bots using weapon modules against targets while moving should suffer a penalty to their 'to hit' probability

I don't support anything that adds more RNG to combat. Stuff that increases a player's tacitcal options yes, but not something that adds random elements that you have no control over.

Instead of thinking of ways to make combat more realistic, think of ways to make it more tactical, or to increase the opportunity for players to demonstrate skill. Game balance and mechanics should always come first, and realism second. That's not to say you can't build system that's realistic, but don't compromise the simulation by adding in more RNG or mechanics that don't actually enhance gameplay.

"...playing a game is the voluntary attempt to overcome unnecessary obstacles."
Bernard Suits, 1978
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Re: Proposed critical damage/movement rule-set additions.

So just responding to the realism side of this idea, imagine a robot constructed of fragile complex electronics.  This would have relatively few "hit points."  Then you layer on armor, multiple inches thick, maybe more.  This robot could take abuse until that armor was destroyed, at which point it would be extremely easy to destroy.  But while the armor was being depleted, all that delicate equipment inside is still completely functional.  The ARMOR being damaged isn't damaging the movement systems or rate of fire, only the armor itself.  All of the damage to functionality happens all at once after the armor is gone.

Think about a human wearing armor, they aren't bleeding and losing health because their plate armor is getting dented, only once there is a hole in the armor do they start taking significant damage.

And from a balance perspective I agree with everyone who posted before me.

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Re: Proposed critical damage/movement rule-set additions.

Fair enough. 

I just felt that system failures or equipment module breakdowns would have added some depth to game play.  (Module Overdrive anyone?)  Also I guess movement difficulty to target and hit are represented well enough by Extensions like 'Precision Firing'.

I too agree that somethings look like good ideas in concept, but just don't set will with players game play wise.  Still, I like subtle nuances like these that have a small chance to occur. 

As far as adding tactics to Perpetuum, that's going to rely on systems like artillery and collateral damage systems.  Anything that will break up blobs basically.  I don't know of any game that has truly achieved this.  Would be nice though.