1 (edited by Stunt 2011-01-16 06:39:24)

Topic: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

inb4 tldr


Troiar base stats: 425 Accumulator capacity, 240 second accumlator recharge time, 600 HP, only 2 head slots 2 missile slots, 325 lock range, Base speed 66.60 KPH Base mass 5450.
Bonuses: Energy Neutralizer optimal range 5% Energy Drainer optimal range 5% Drained energy amount 5% Accumulator recharge time -5%

Standard light missile launcher: 300kg mass, 135 Optimal range


Pros post-patch: 2nd Highest Optimal Range, Missiles have considerably lower Line of sight trouble. can fit 2 medium launchers

Cons post-patch: Slowest ewar, only 2 headslots so less dps and ewar fitting choices, Shortest firing range, no defensive bonuses, least amount of bonuses. Does not fill its role of a drainer/neutralizer ewar.


Cameleon: base stats: 300 Accumulator capacity, 120 sec second accumlator recharge time, 550 HP, 4 head slots 2 turret slots, 300m lock range, Base speed 70.20 KPH Base mass 5450.
Bonuses: EW stregth 5% ECM accumulator usage -5% Sensor suppressor accumulator usage -5% Demobilizer accumulator -5% armor repair amount 5%

Standard Light EM Gun: 250kg mass 120m optimal range 50m falloff


Pros post-patch: Great for ecm and remote/self repair, Great damage in close range, Decent speed.

Cons post-patch: Shortest optimal range, accumulator can run out fast if using Ewar/repping and shooting slow speed if fully fitted but not as slow as troiar but slower then its superior racial nemesis


Intakt base stats: 300 Accumulator capacity, 120 second accumulator recharge time, 675 HP, 4 head slots 2 turret slots, 300m lock range, Base speed 72 kph Base mass 5450
Bonuses: 2% Sensor suppressor locking range 3% Sensor suppressor locking time -5% sensor accumulator usage -5% Demobilizer accumulator usage -5% ECM accumulator usage 5% Chemical resist 5% seismic resist 5% knetic resist 5% thermal resist

Standard light hcl laser: 150kg mass 150m optimal 100 falloff


Pros post-patch: Fastest ewar bot farthest shooting range and highest optimal range highest resist best ewar for sensor suppressors and demobilizer

Cons post-patch: Unstable accumulator Line of site issues




Troiar is the worst of the three light ewars in every field.

- Has the least amount of bonuses and is the only light ewar without a defensive bonus ie; higher resists (intakt) or greater armor repair amount (cameleon)

- Most limited of the three light ewar with only two head slots

- Slowest base and fitted speed of the three ewar. An example; Troiar with navigation 10 and just a t4 light wieght frame has a 123.62 top speed. A cameleon with navigation 10 and just a t4 light wieght frame has a 130 top speed. A intakt with navigation 10 and just a t4 light weight frame has a top speed of 133.66

- Troiar has the worst range. While having a slightly higher optimal range then the cameleon light em guns have a fall off range which means they can shoot farther at the cost of less damage. Basically being the slowest bot the troiar can be kited by an intakt or cameleon indefinantly

- Troiar using drainers/neuts has the lowest survivability; you need to get close to drain some one around 150-200 depending on skills. A cameleon and intakt go faster then a troiar while fitting a dmod which means if you can drain them they can dmob you and being the slowest bot good luck keeping up with them to drain.

- The resistance rock paper scissors balance is not balanced at all. A standard fit cameleon can rip a troiar fitted in t2->t4 to shreds while a standard fit troiar will lose to a t2->t4 intakt.

- Pelistal missel range got nerfed this patch; Some argue that t4 give greater range, Yes that is true but that means you have to get t4 which weigh more then t2 to achieve the range we had post nerf which only hinders our already slow speed

- Cameleon can easily cross spec from magnetic weapons to lasers making them even faster

- Drainers/Neuts suffer Line of sight while dmob sensor suppressors and ecm's dont, Which sucks considering drainers/neuts have the shortest range to begin with

- Toiar with 2x light missel launchers have the least dps.
- Cameleon/intakts in numbers can take on a well skilled assault. a group of troirs will get romanced by an arablest

the problem is NOT that cameleon/intakts are too "op" its that troairs suck *** (and by extension pelistal speed/range post patch)


Possible solutions to this *** suckage

- Increase pelistal speed by 4-8 kph. Its not cool that both a cameleon and intakt can fully fit 4x headslots(dmob/amps/tuners/etc..) 2x weapons and lwf/repper and sitll go 8-15 kph faster then a troiar who has TWO headslots
- Add Shield absorb bonus to troiars who lack any "defensive" type bonus unlike the cameleon and intakt
- revert missel range pre patch and have t3 give 5% range bonus and t4 10% range bonus
- Increase troiar mass but keep speed the same that way fitting heavy launchers will not cause troiar speed to suffer such a big speed loss
- Buff small drainer/neut range and or drain amount or increasing the bonus from 5% per level to 10%
- increase troiar reactor/cpu capacity for a viable medium launcher build to justify current troiar suckage
- ?????
- Profit



inb4 tldr;


Pelistal discrimination

Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

What does this have to do with why no one will answer the phone in my Sequer? Who keeps calling me? What do they want?

Reactor......ONLINE
Sensors......ONLINE
Weapons......ONLINE
All systems nominal.

Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

Troiars are OP. Oh and twilight sucks.

Nerf troiars and sparkly stuff.

AXE JOKE ECORP N-A CIR

Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

Before Stunt commits harikari from people trolling his thread I will say at the very least the troiar needs to be faster while fully fit than it is right now. 

Small neuts/drainers have questionable impact on the field and in return severely gimp your speed down to around the 95kph mark with nav10 if you fully fit the bot with 2 launchers.  If you drop the neuts then it is just a weak dps ewar and pales in comparison to it's peers.

5 (edited by Neoxx 2011-01-16 08:05:50)

Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

A wild Stunt appears in a Troiar!

Go Intakt!

Stunt uses Neutralize!

It is not very effective...

Stunt uses Missile!

It does not have range.

Intakt uses Lasers!

It is super effective!

Stunt fainted!

->You just lost The Game<-

6 (edited by Shaedys 2011-01-16 10:12:36)

Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

Currently if you use neuts/drainers your a dead troiar because you will go into their demob range.
They only help if your going up against heavy mechs with another 15 ewar by your side, by which time you should have won it already regardless.
However the slots from this ewar that pelistal have doesn't help them fit dps, and if they could it would make them even slower. They'd go like 93 fully fitted.
Its basically intakts kill chameleons, chameleons kill troiars, intaks kill troiars.

Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

like i wrote in the other topic:
the speed nerf of the Trojar was not intentional.

when i asked a DEV right after the patch if it was intentional, i got following answer:

did you see the change log?
was there mentioned nerf,
its the answer to your question

and since then, the patchlog was not updated with any explicit speed reduction of the Trojar, which the DEVs would have added after asking.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

8 (edited by Alexander 2011-01-16 14:28:21)

Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

Even if the Troiar has its speed put back picture this and for a moment ignore "1 on 1 never happends".

T4 Intakt = 106 KPH
T4 Troiar = 95~ KPH

Intakts range with level 5 extensions: 228m + 115m = 343m (Crypto)
Troiars range with level 5 extensions: 250m~ (Heat IX)

As long as the Intakt (Meant to be easily killed by the Troiar) stays at least 250m away the troiar cannot damage it while the Troiar will slowly die and eventually pop. The Intakt can risk getting inside demob range for a moment to push the Troiar further away however but at any moment the Intakt can GTFO and leave if things get sticky.

Even with the Intakt is demobbed there is a high chance that the Troiar will still be going slower than the Intakt and if the Troiar fits a demob it's even slower. Troiar have had their role completely removed.

Small energy warfare does not work. You'd need 1 Troiar per target to get on n attacking force and you don't need small energy warfare when attacking stragglers. The only reason it may ever be needed if when facing Adom (A Seth) alone in combat. Then it makes a difference but even then the Troiar will die under the Seths fire power eventually if it stays in range. An Ictus would be better in every way (Still able to kite and hurt the larger target harder)

Increasing their mass above the line of the other ewar would mean fitting things like a demob and missile launchers would have less of an effect meaning a speed demob troiar MAY go faster than an Intakt but have less defences.

The intakt (When compared) has the highest range and survivability.

The Game

Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

Exactly the reason why the troiar needs a demob bonus.

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Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

Jita wrote:

Exactly the reason why the troiar needs a demob bonus.

The Intakt would then always run from a Troiar and never get in the extended demob range.
Troiar should have a shield bonus, remove accumulator bonus and increase demob range 5% per level but it's still the worst demobber.

The Game

Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

shield bonus on trojar would be as useless as on any other small bot with only two legslots, because its only affecting the bot if it has actually a shield fitted.

you dont fit your itnakts with universal armor plates to profit from the resist bonus, do you?
the Cammy's repair bonus affects remote and self repair, so its usefull in two ways.

and the accumulator recharge on the trojar makes it possible to use three neuts and perhaps a shield or armor repair.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

Annihilator wrote:

shield bonus on trojar would be as useless as on any other small bot with only two legslots, because its only affecting the bot if it has actually a shield fitted.

you dont fit your itnakts with universal armor plates to profit from the resist bonus, do you?
the Cammy's repair bonus affects remote and self repair, so its usefull in two ways.

and the accumulator recharge on the trojar makes it possible to use three neuts and perhaps a shield or armor repair.


Keep the recharge and add a shield. Small shields wiegh less then armor reps

Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

shield and accumulator-recharge bonus are on the same part of the bot, so they cant be on the one bot at the same time.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

Tros also have the least efficient accumulator recharge rate at 1.77 units filled per second compared to the other light ewars 2.5...

This is partly made up for by extensions that raise caps by a fixed %, but the gap is way too huge.

Seriously, why 2 head slots?  Looking at all the robots in a spreadsheet, that is the one cell I have double highlighted with just "doesn't make f'ing sense". 

Stunt is still an assclown, though.

15 (edited by Annihilator 2011-01-17 02:49:50)

Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

Snift wrote:

Tros also have the least efficient accumulator recharge rate at 1.77 units filled per second compared to the other light ewars 2.5...

you totally ignored the robot bonus, which is a recharge bonus -  This will turn the accumulator into a undepletable state. .

This is partly made up for by extensions that raise caps by a fixed %, but the gap is way too huge.
some swear that green bots dont need any "Energy Management" extensions, some even say the "Accumulator Expansion" is useless on green bots.

Seriously, why 2 head slots?  Looking at all the robots in a spreadsheet, that is the one cell I have double highlighted with just "doesn't make f'ing sense". 

count the overal slots and you get your answer. The question should be - why do the green ewars get two slots that can only be equipped with missile launchers, while the others got multi-use slots.

Stunt is still an assclown, though.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

Annihilator wrote:
Snift wrote:

Tros also have the least efficient accumulator recharge rate at 1.77 units filled per second compared to the other light ewars 2.5...

you totally ignored the robot bonus, which is a recharge bonus -  This will turn the accumulator into a undepletable state. .

This is partly made up for by extensions that raise caps by a fixed %, but the gap is way too huge.
some swear that green bots dont need any "Energy Management" extensions, some even say the "Accumulator Expansion" is useless on green bots.

Seriously, why 2 head slots?  Looking at all the robots in a spreadsheet, that is the one cell I have double highlighted with just "doesn't make f'ing sense". 

count the overal slots and you get your answer. The question should be - why do the green ewars get two slots that can only be equipped with missile launchers, while the others got multi-use slots.

Stunt is still an assclown, though.


1. Troirs do not have an undepletable amount of AP if your running a rep

2. wouldent be useless if people used shields

3. Its easy to cross spec because they share similar extentions like sharp shooting etc.. as opposed to propelent mixing for missiles

Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

Stunt (M2S) wrote:

2. wouldent be useless if people used shields

Snowstyle (M2S) wrote:

Don't get any energy management if your going missiles.

3. is no answer to the question

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Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

Troiar is now a small energy warfare robots only and small energy warfare is the least situational role required in the game.

In short they look cool but serve little purpose and ability any more. They always were the weakest choose and now they're the worst choice.

I'd rather a Toiar scout beta scouts than be involved in combat. At least no one cares when they die.

The Game

Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

Alexander wrote:

Troiar is now a small energy warfare robots only and small energy warfare is the least situational role required in the game.

In short they look cool but serve little purpose and ability any more. They always were the weakest choose and now they're the worst choice.

I'd rather a Toiar scout beta scouts than be involved in combat. At least no one cares when they die.

An Arkhe being far better for the purpose.
Yeah Troiars do light energy warfare which is not needed.
If your going to get any kind of energy warfare you want someone in an Ictus who will be better in every way since your not going to need the extra 20 kph for the targets you really want to run dry of cap.

20 (edited by Voldemort 2011-01-18 05:15:26)

Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

Additional reason why the Troiar desperately needs a change or buff:

Ewar bots that use ECM or demobilisers are useful against any kind of bots: light, assault, mechs and especially heavy mechs. The Gropho for example has a sensor strength of 85, it's even easier to jam with ECM modules than a mech or assault bot.
The Troiar however drains or neutralises a tiny amount of accumulator points (20 AP per cycle for drainers and 50 for neuts before bonus iirc), which might be effective against light or assault bots, but doesn't affect much the mechs, and in particular doesn't have any noticeable effects on heavy mechs (with their up to 4000 AP). 

What's more effective: to ECM-jam a Gropho, so that it can't shoot at all ... or take away 150 out of it's ~4000 Accumulator Points ?

Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

One on one you might have an advantage against an ewar or assault if you can drain the cap of a laser user. In small groups you'll be long dead by the time anything is drained.

Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

Very good post. Troiars are pretty bad. Missile stuff in general is bad. Slowest speeds with shortest ranges. A perfect example of why you need more then 1 respec. It wasn't too horrible pre-patch but now it's just dumb.

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Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

HereticZero wrote:

Very good post. Troiars are pretty bad. Missile stuff in general is bad. Slowest speeds with shortest ranges. A perfect example of why you need more then 1 respec. It wasn't too horrible pre-patch but now it's just dumb.

-lets say, next patch changing lasers somehow - respec
-patch after that introducing artillery - oh shock, its using 90% of the missile extensions - respec
-patch after that introducing stealth bots - oh noes, its a nuimquol robot - respec
-patch after that introducing heavy firearms - respec
-balancing patch turns out to make shields IMBA, you gona take it with the full extend
-balancing patch bringing shields back to balance - respec.

damn, stick to your choice and do the best out of it.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

*Waiting for dev input*

Re: Troiar current state compared to other ewar

Stunt wrote:

*Waiting for dev input*

They don't understand the difficulties of living with sparkly skin sad