Topic: Robot Speed 2.0

http://i.imgur.com/b6m0VHl.jpg

Hello guys,

Since the other threads weighed down with crap.  I want to ask a simple question?  Do you think the separation between heavy mechs "Tanked" should be 12% different then an assault bot "tanked"? 

I personally believe there should be a bigger gap between the biggest most powerful bot in the game versus a cheap low end plinky plinky bot.  I am not saying assault bots should kill a heavy but I don't think on roams should heavy mechs keep up with assault groups.  I don't think this is viable game play.  If you add an velocity nexus to the heavy group they go the SAME speed as the assault groups.

114KPH Heavy mk2 with 10K HP decent resists and 35% resist to demob.  The same Robot is 150 KPH on the
highway

http://i.imgur.com/2vF6bOz.jpg

Speed fit Heavy is 122 KPH with Nexus, 109 with out.

http://i.imgur.com/qb84n9L.jpg

Now this is based off the fact there is a velocity nexus on the field.  But if Heavy mk2s are fielded it's because there is more than one person present.

Arbalest MK2 "tanked Version"

http://i.imgur.com/PU1x6mR.jpg

116KPH....  130 with Nexus.

Heavy mechs need to be slower or Assault bots need to be faster.  It should not be a viable option to run down assault bots with heavies.

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2 (edited by Inda 2016-02-23 06:40:18)

Re: Robot Speed 2.0

Strongly agreed!

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Re: Robot Speed 2.0

-1. good fit without nexus speed its 95-96km/h

Just @ Game

Re: Robot Speed 2.0

+1 i agree with the assaults need to be faster, heavies shoudln't be slowed because if they plate for speed they lost alot.    While we're on the topic of balance.  How can we make mech's viable?

5 (edited by Line 2016-02-23 09:30:13)

Re: Robot Speed 2.0

-1.

empty Arbalest mk2

empty Mesmer mk2

3x light plated Arbalest mk2

3x med plated Mesmer mk2

Thing is, that medium plates are supposed to be installed on mechs and heavy mechs - for lights and assaults you have light plates. So of course if you're going to use fit that is supposed to be instaled on higher class robot, expect your speed be decreased. It's like a child wearing dad's jacket - it's heavy, uncomfortable and completely slows poor kid down.

So as long as there is no heavy plates that can be installed on heavy mechs, you can't properly compare med-plated assaults with med-plated heavies. Speed is just fine, it's all up to your fit.

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6 (edited by Chemist 2016-02-23 14:14:08)

Re: Robot Speed 2.0

Line wrote:

-1.

empty Arbalest mk2

empty Mesmer mk2

3x light plated Arbalest mk2

3x med plated Mesmer mk2

Thing is, that medium plates are supposed to be installed on mechs and heavy mechs - for lights and assaults you have light plates. So of course if you're going to use fit that is supposed to be instaled on higher class robot, expect your speed be decreased. It's like a child wearing dad's jacket - it's heavy, uncomfortable and completely slows poor kid down.

So as long as there is no heavy plates that can be installed on heavy mechs, you can't properly compare med-plated assaults with med-plated heavies. Speed is just fine, it's all up to your fit.

+1 to Line. lol

Re: Robot Speed 2.0

I agree in principle that the speed between classes isn’t enough.

My main issue isn’t with the base speeds however but is with plates. For some reason they give you more armor AND a demob resistance and in my opinion that is completely the wrong way around. Why are we rewarding people twice? Adding plates should make you MORE at risk from demobs.

I suggest giving a base resistance to demob for all Mechs and Bots with assaults able to fit a frame and still be mainly demob resistant and other mechs and bots having varying degrees of Impact. Adding plates would make you less demob resistant meaning that you can choose a better tank but have the risk of getting pinned down because of that. This would make kiting with long range fits more viable, boost greens who don’t use plates as much and overall reduce tanks making smaller bots and mechs a more viable alternative.

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Re: Robot Speed 2.0

I think there is pressure from travel time mitigation to keep speeds of all bots up. For actual battle the speed differences could be larger but the line on what is manuvering the formation and what is commuting to the battle site can be a hazy one. Could commuting speed be made seprate from battle speed. Two minute cooldown for changing modes?

I think the option of having a "cryoframe" that doesn't add hp but adds demob resistance could be added. And the demob resistance taken away from plates. Maybe make it so that plate + cryo frame is comparable to two plates as of now?

I don't think the combination of cryo + lightframe is super bad if it results in the demob modifiers canceling out.

Also other dimensions could be explored. For example gain hp for losing damage resistance on one or two types?

Re: Robot Speed 2.0

Line wrote:

-1.

empty Arbalest mk2

empty Mesmer mk2

3x light plated Arbalest mk2

3x med plated Mesmer mk2

Thing is, that medium plates are supposed to be installed on mechs and heavy mechs - for lights and assaults you have light plates. So of course if you're going to use fit that is supposed to be instaled on higher class robot, expect your speed be decreased. It's like a child wearing dad's jacket - it's heavy, uncomfortable and completely slows poor kid down.

So as long as there is no heavy plates that can be installed on heavy mechs, you can't properly compare med-plated assaults with med-plated heavies. Speed is just fine, it's all up to your fit.

Line the problem is T2P.  In my above examples I used medium plates on heavy and light plates on arbalest.

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Re: Robot Speed 2.0

Jita wrote:

I agree in principle that the speed between classes isn’t enough.

My main issue isn’t with the base speeds however but is with plates. For some reason they give you more armor AND a demob resistance and in my opinion that is completely the wrong way around. Why are we rewarding people twice? Adding plates should make you MORE at risk from demobs.

I suggest giving a base resistance to demob for all Mechs and Bots with assaults able to fit a frame and still be mainly demob resistant and other mechs and bots having varying degrees of Impact. Adding plates would make you less demob resistant meaning that you can choose a better tank but have the risk of getting pinned down because of that. This would make kiting with long range fits more viable, boost greens who don’t use plates as much and overall reduce tanks making smaller bots and mechs a more viable alternative.

This is spot on.

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Re: Robot Speed 2.0

Jita wrote:

I agree in principle that the speed between classes isn’t enough.

My main issue isn’t with the base speeds however but is with plates. For some reason they give you more armor AND a demob resistance and in my opinion that is completely the wrong way around. Why are we rewarding people twice? Adding plates should make you MORE at risk from demobs.

I suggest giving a base resistance to demob for all Mechs and Bots with assaults able to fit a frame and still be mainly demob resistant and other mechs and bots having varying degrees of Impact. Adding plates would make you less demob resistant meaning that you can choose a better tank but have the risk of getting pinned down because of that. This would make kiting with long range fits more viable, boost greens who don’t use plates as much and overall reduce tanks making smaller bots and mechs a more viable alternative.

But isn't LWF completely reversal to that andpenalize you twice aswell? I mean, you have less HP and less demob resistance.

I would remove demob resistane/penalties from LWF/plates completely, added some base value to all bots depending on their class/type and then probably add some new module that increases your demob resistance and only that. Like, you either fast, tanky or demob resisted. then probably add 2 demob tuners module that increases either range or strength at a cost of consumed energy increased or sorta.

How about this?

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12 (edited by Lobo 2016-02-23 15:33:51)

Re: Robot Speed 2.0

Line wrote:
Jita wrote:

I agree in principle that the speed between classes isn’t enough.

My main issue isn’t with the base speeds however but is with plates. For some reason they give you more armor AND a demob resistance and in my opinion that is completely the wrong way around. Why are we rewarding people twice? Adding plates should make you MORE at risk from demobs.

I suggest giving a base resistance to demob for all Mechs and Bots with assaults able to fit a frame and still be mainly demob resistant and other mechs and bots having varying degrees of Impact. Adding plates would make you less demob resistant meaning that you can choose a better tank but have the risk of getting pinned down because of that. This would make kiting with long range fits more viable, boost greens who don’t use plates as much and overall reduce tanks making smaller bots and mechs a more viable alternative.

But isn't LWF completely reversal to that andpenalize you twice aswell? I mean, you have less HP and less demob resistance.

I would remove demob resistane/penalties from LWF/plates completely, added some base value to all bots depending on their class/type and then probably add some new module that increases your demob resistance and only that. Like, you either fast, tanky or demob resisted. then probably add 2 demob tuners module that increases either range or strength at a cost of consumed energy increased or sorta.

How about this?

both good ideas

Problem I have with current set up is plate and frame should cancel each other out but they don't you gain from both and reduce the drawback of both to a minimum.

Frame only fits crawl when demobbed but can normally avoid demobs by using speed.
Plate only fits just walk through it

Plate + Frame gets speed bonus from frame and demob resistance from plate.

Frames are unique items why not plates? Why not add a 3rd fitting requirement weight, Weight of bot in direct relation to speed of bot. With a cap on weight and relative skills to lighten load or load-bearance, could go further and factor in cargo items in to speed reduction with haulers getting a bonus to haul weight.

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13 (edited by Jita 2016-02-23 15:56:13)

Re: Robot Speed 2.0

Line wrote:
Jita wrote:

I agree in principle that the speed between classes isn’t enough.

My main issue isn’t with the base speeds however but is with plates. For some reason they give you more armor AND a demob resistance and in my opinion that is completely the wrong way around. Why are we rewarding people twice? Adding plates should make you MORE at risk from demobs.

I suggest giving a base resistance to demob for all Mechs and Bots with assaults able to fit a frame and still be mainly demob resistant and other mechs and bots having varying degrees of Impact. Adding plates would make you less demob resistant meaning that you can choose a better tank but have the risk of getting pinned down because of that. This would make kiting with long range fits more viable, boost greens who don’t use plates as much and overall reduce tanks making smaller bots and mechs a more viable alternative.

But isn't LWF completely reversal to that andpenalize you twice aswell? I mean, you have less HP and less demob resistance.

I would remove demob resistane/penalties from LWF/plates completely, added some base value to all bots depending on their class/type and then probably add some new module that increases your demob resistance and only that. Like, you either fast, tanky or demob resisted. then probably add 2 demob tuners module that increases either range or strength at a cost of consumed energy increased or sorta.

How about this?

So … correct me if I’m wrong Line ..what we are suggesting is:

Remove the demob bonus / penalties from LWF and plates
Increase the armour penalty for LWF
Dramatically increase the weight of Medium plates
Increase demob resistance as a base value dependent upon bot and class
Add a demob resistance module (low slot)
Add a demob strength module (high slot)

With the intention of creating four different types of stance for your mech.

Plates which is tanky,  slow
Frame which is fast and has a significant armor penalty
No plates or frame which has no armor penalty or speed penalty
Demob resistant which requires significant low slot sacrifice

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Robot Speed 2.0

you forgot an option to increase demob strength/range at the cost of headslots.

IMO that will bring some more diversity in fittings. I mean, currently you have to fit plates tto get demob resistance, and you have to fit lwf to be fast, and that is on each combat bot (except shields). I'm not even talking about speed nexus on kains, and that combats are often don't put demob on because it's mostly useless.

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Re: Robot Speed 2.0

Line wrote:

you forgot an option to increase demob strength/range at the cost of headslots.

IMO that will bring some more diversity in fittings. I mean, currently you have to fit plates tto get demob resistance, and you have to fit lwf to be fast, and that is on each combat bot (except shields). I'm not even talking about speed nexus on kains, and that combats are often don't put demob on because it's mostly useless.

Range Extenders increase range of Demobs, and I agree there should be a Demob tuner too for strength

Re: Robot Speed 2.0

while we're talking about it i think S-demobs should be LOS because they're too strong and Ls should be not LOS

Re: Robot Speed 2.0

Rovoc wrote:

while we're talking about it i think S-demobs should be LOS because they're too strong and Ls should be not LOS

+1

Re: Robot Speed 2.0

SunnyJester wrote:
Line wrote:

you forgot an option to increase demob strength/range at the cost of headslots.

IMO that will bring some more diversity in fittings. I mean, currently you have to fit plates tto get demob resistance, and you have to fit lwf to be fast, and that is on each combat bot (except shields). I'm not even talking about speed nexus on kains, and that combats are often don't put demob on because it's mostly useless.

Range Extenders increase range of Demobs, and I agree there should be a Demob tuner too for strength

Range extenders aren't really suit for light bots that are mostly tacklers, that's the problem.

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19 (edited by Annihilator 2016-02-23 20:15:23)

Re: Robot Speed 2.0

maybe, after 6 years, its time to fix the issues falloff had on ewar modules, and give it back to demobs - with range-extender only affecting falloff wink

also, no tuner for demob necessary, unless you allow me to shoot at the demobber without flagging myself

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Re: Robot Speed 2.0

If a demob can catch someone with less than optinmal range, in the next shot its going to be pretty guaranteed to be able to land a optimal range shot if the shot has any effect on speed.

Re: Robot Speed 2.0

remove demob from the game. and the world  NIA will be more smile

Just @ Game

Re: Robot Speed 2.0

BadAss wrote:

remove demob from the game. and the world  NIA will be more smile

99% chance this was just a troll post,

but i wouldn't go as far as removing them from the game, but making them (and all other EWAR) modules actually misc-slot modules, with the corresponding adjustment to ewar bot headslots.

this would also balance seth vs. mesmer and gropho

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