• JOKE
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Topic: Missions

After trying out the mission system I do kind of like it however I have some thoughts and questions.

Firstly is travel time - particularly in the low level missions your travel time is 90% of the mission. I would suggest aiming for a travel time closer to 30%, perhaps by making lower level missions spawn closer and higher level further away.

The second point is mission progression. My question is what is it for? The low level missions are essentially a slow, easy stepping stone to higher level missions. They are based on the idea that a new person will come to the game and have that stepping stone before they are ready for higher level missions. Why not remove the restrictions related to standing completely. If the first time you do a mission you do a level 5 mission then great. Each of the mission levels should have a recommended bot type and the reward payout would be based upon your standing. You would still have the progression if new people wanted to do missions from day one but if they did something else, had their first mech and wanted to start they could skip the killing arkhe's and go straight in to something a bit more fun.

The third point is in reward. It would be nice to have a sliding scale on a mission screen as to what you would want your syndicate reward to be. On the one side you could pick pure nic - no cans would drop and you get more money. You might choose pure loot - no mission monetary reward but an increase in the can drops (and so kernals / fragments).

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
  • JOKE
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Re: Missions

What Jita's says, and missions are to damn short make the longer with more rewards.

RIP PERPETUUM
  • PHM
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Re: Missions

Unless you have 52 in squad and do transport missions, QQ.

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Re: Missions

Ville wrote:

Unless you have 52 in squad and do transport missions, QQ.

it doesnt matter if its 10 or 52... only your payout will be divided by more.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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  • CIR
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Re: Missions

stepping stone missions are needed otherwise new players get lost.

Unless i missanderstand Jita's OP

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue
  • RAD
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Re: Missions

I finally got around to push my rep from zero to.. 3 at the moment, I think.
I do think that stepping stones for newbies are needed.
First of all some might think "I can totally skip this, level 0 was super easy so I go to 3 right away. 3 out of 6 can't be that hard, right?!" and boom they go. Very frustrating for some people. In addition it gives you a feeling of progression - kind of like leveling your WoW [popular game example] Character for the first time.
However I do think that the progression from Level 2 to 3 is a lot slower. For some reason I only get + ~2.5 rep compared to 5.x rep from level 1-2, while I am at a techlevel where I could burn right through, making missions tedious at this point. I have talked to new players and they felt similiar: Progressionfeeling is good and important, but it sometimes takes too long because the missions are not challenging enough to play.

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Re: Missions

Khetar wrote:

I finally got around to push my rep from zero to.. 3 at the moment, I think.
I do think that stepping stones for newbies are needed.
First of all some might think "I can totally skip this, level 0 was super easy so I go to 3 right away. 3 out of 6 can't be that hard, right?!" and boom they go. Very frustrating for some people. In addition it gives you a feeling of progression - kind of like leveling your WoW [popular game example] Character for the first time.
However I do think that the progression from Level 2 to 3 is a lot slower. For some reason I only get + ~2.5 rep compared to 5.x rep from level 1-2, while I am at a techlevel where I could burn right through, making missions tedious at this point. I have talked to new players and they felt similiar: Progressionfeeling is good and important, but it sometimes takes too long because the missions are not challenging enough to play.

I agree that stepping stones are needed but when your doing level 2 missions and you've done a hundred missions already and your required to kill one servant castel its not really engaging.

I guess what I would really like to see is your skills and bot type and bot fitting given an index of difficulty. The mission would then give you a mission that reflects your index (with the option to turn the difficulty down if you want) and a corresponding reward would be there for you.

Perhaps the game could calculate your index based upon:

Your effective DPS vs the rat type you've accepted a mission for
Your effective tank vs the rat type you have accepted a mission for
The size of your Bot / Mech

It would then choose rat types to fight you dependent upon your bot size first, and then the number / difficulty of these rats would be dependent upon your ability to tank and kill them.

There would be a sliding scale underneath the mission that allows you to set the difficulty you want out of the maximum that is designed for your personal circumstances.

Rewards of course would be dependent upon how high your index is and the level of difficulty you set.

This way at all mission levels your getting a degree of challenge and difficulty that reflects your personal skills. As you progress through the mission levels your potential risk and reward increases. Level 0 might only allow you to encounter 60% of potential whereas level 5 might be as much as 150% - a mission the game would expect you to die too. Each of these missions would be tailored to your bot size so you don't need a mk2 heavy to do lvl 5 missions, you can do it in an assault as the game would change the enemy size to give room for that gameplay.

Your reward would remain static regardless of the size of bot or mech you brought to a level 5 mission by calculating your potential dps, balancing that against the tank of the rats you are fighting and the number and coming up with an optimal time provided you never miss a shot that it would take you to do the mission. Provided your not missing shots the time taken for a level 5 in a light bot would be the same as in a heavy mk2, the only difference would be in what you find to be fun gameplay.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
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Re: Missions

Right now, I think the relation gain is just too small.

We need a bit more progression.  I am doing around 75 missions, to get to the next level.  This is with all relation skills at lvl 7.  Newer players do not have that luxry.  So they would be around 100 at least.

I would like to see newer players move up the ladder at around 50 missions, with boost and mission bonus's, but with out skills.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle
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  • BKK
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Re: Missions

relation gain has one big problem -
because its easier for them, Avatar creations did it the opposite way that ANY OTHER GAME does it.

usually, you gain X points to level up, but every level needs exponentially more points.
something harder to kill/do gives you more points.

in perpetuum, each level needs exactly the same number of points, and to slow down progression, the harder stuff gives you LESS points, and the easy stuff later gives you ZERO points.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear
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Re: Missions

Yes, I fully understand how the current systems works. 

I would hope that a quick look could be taken at this, to make it a little less of a grind, and more of a obtainable goal.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle
Scarab Kill Count - 13
  • CIR
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Re: Missions

Merkle wrote:

Right now, I think the relation gain is just too small.

We need a bit more progression.  I am doing around 75 missions, to get to the next level.  This is with all relation skills at lvl 7.  Newer players do not have that luxry.  So they would be around 100 at least.

I would like to see newer players move up the ladder at around 50 missions, with boost and mission bonus's, but with out skills.

Um sorry but I have found the exact opposite. Getting standings has been very easy. And when you compare it to EVE, perpetuum is very quick.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue
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Re: Missions

The difference I feel, is that the lower levels in EVE go quite fast, and the others move slower.

In Perp, its a slow and steady push.  It doesn't feel terribly engaging, or rewarding at all.   I feel as you can out pace your EP, before you hit more challenging missions.

The ease of getting standings, agreed, as we are both Vets, and lower missions are basically nothing for us to do.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle
Scarab Kill Count - 13

13 Reply by Obi Wan Kenobi (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2015-07-31 07:46:53)

  • CIR
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Re: Missions

I will defiantly say the missions do not feel very engaging, I have to agree with you there. Questing / Missions never really grab me in any games ive ever played i do them coz they are a good way to grind $$ .... other than SWTOR (i really liked that game). The PVE i enjoy the most is open world events. Like in EVE  incursions or WH sleepers (not done the drifters) & I liked open world bosses & events in Archeage.

Observers kinda of have that feel but then they dont at the same time.. Kinda hard to explain.

I think NPCs attaching Gamma bases is very cool for immersion & on the road map NPC vs NPC would be cool.
Also if you defend Shinjala from a Nian Invasion you get Asintec Standings or tokens ect... But the invasion has to be REALLY HARD you should need lots of people to defeat them.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue
  • SotA
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Re: Missions

Overall, I like the new mission system. It is much better than what was in place.

Jita wrote:

After trying out the mission system I do kind of like it however I have some thoughts and questions.

Firstly is travel time - particularly in the low level missions your travel time is 90% of the mission. I would suggest aiming for a travel time closer to 30%, perhaps by making lower level missions spawn closer and higher level further away.

The second point is mission progression. My question is what is it for? The low level missions are essentially a slow, easy stepping stone to higher level missions. They are based on the idea that a new person will come to the game and have that stepping stone before they are ready for higher level missions. Why not remove the restrictions related to standing completely. If the first time you do a mission you do a level 5 mission then great. Each of the mission levels should have a recommended bot type and the reward payout would be based upon your standing. You would still have the progression if new people wanted to do missions from day one but if they did something else, had their first mech and wanted to start they could skip the killing arkhe's and go straight in to something a bit more fun.

The third point is in reward. It would be nice to have a sliding scale on a mission screen as to what you would want your syndicate reward to be. On the one side you could pick pure nic - no cans would drop and you get more money. You might choose pure loot - no mission monetary reward but an increase in the can drops (and so kernals / fragments).


#2- I agree with unlocking mission level access from faction standing. Instead give Syndicate store items faction level requirements to buy with ammo being 0. Anything above ammo(which means it has some sort of minimum faction requirement to buy) can not be sold on the player market, players can only sell tokens or ammo. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with ammo being no sell as well and having a minimum faction requirement to buy.

#3- I also agree with a sliding scale system for missions. 1 adjustable scale for rewarding nic vs. faction standing gain(more nic for less faction relation or reverse), and a separate adjustable scale for pay out rewards vs. drops. So for example I could pick pure relation gain over nic and pay out over drops for an extremely large relation gain but no nic or drops.

15 Reply by Robophiliac (edited by Robophiliac 2015-08-19 19:26:32)

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Re: Missions

I'm currently doing lvl 4 combat missions on Shin. I'll explain them and throw out some numbers/stats for peeps. I've only done combat missions. I'd like to see posts from some of you doing other types with similar details so we can compare them.

Types: There are 4 combat mission templates that are randomly chosen from. Combat ranges from 1-3 enemy squads. Missions are listed fastest/easiest > slowest/longest

Hunting the Hunters- This is the fastest and easiest of the 4 and pays out the worst.
A. Scout location, mobs will spawn once in range
B. Kill all enemies
C. Loot blue mission crate that drops off last mob
D. Deliver mission item to any terminal

Intruder Alert-
A. Scout location, mobs will spawn once in range
B. Kill all enemies
C. Scout location, mobs will spawn once in range
D. Kill all enemies

Connection Lost-
A. Go to and activate 1st switch
B. Wait a sec for mobs to pop
C. Kill all enemies
D. Go to and activate 2nd switch
E. Wait a sec for mobs to pop
F. Kill all enemies

Patrol Duty-
A. Scout location, mobs will spawn once in range
B. Kill all enemies
C. Scout location, mobs will spawn once in range
D. Kill all enemies
E. Scout location, mobs will spawn once in range
F. Kill all enemies

Squad size and composition: Level 3 & 4 missions randomly spawn 3-4 npcs per squad. For lvl 3 missions the npcs range up to assualts and possibly a scarab. Lvl 4 missions include up to mechs and heavy industrials. (Note- I believe lvl 5 missions are 4-5 npcs of any size including heavy combat mechs but I'm not up to them yet.) Both lvl 3 & 4 mission npcs are of randomized strength up to and including T5.

Pay and relation: Pay/relation will vary depending on everyone's EP spent obviously. I have 5 points in combat missions and 5 points in contract negotiations. I've leveled from 1 to 4 now in a squad with my alt. The nic pay offered seems to basically double each lvl. At lvl 3 the best I made off a Patrol type mission was just over 500k per toon, at lvl 4 now that same mission is paying a little over 1M per toon. Lvl 3 missions gave .78 relation each and lvl 4 missions are .52 relation each. (Note- All numbers are for max bonus, ie you did 5 missions already so you've incremented up the pay.)
Hunting- 300-400k
Alert- 600-700k
Lost- 600-800k
Patrol- 900k-1.0M


Edit: Changed 2 of the template types to their official mission name & objective lists, will change the other 2 later.

Edit2: Ok all mission names & steps are listed now instead of my shorthand notes. smile  Added in the pay range on level 4 missions as well.

16 Reply by Robophiliac (edited by Robophiliac 2015-08-16 05:42:53)

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Re: Missions

Making a separate post of the combat exploration missions breakdown. Combat exploration missions are teamed with combat missions when investing EP. Here is the official mission names & objectives breakdown.

Types: Ok 4 set mission templates randomized between once again. 3 of the missions require using a geoscanner to locate a mission generated artifact somewhere within a roughly 1.5k radius of the objective point. If you know how to scan down an artifact with/without FOOM Scan tool, these can be done fairly quickly. Like the post above these are listed roughly easy-hard.

The Obvious Trap- This is the oddball that doesn't need an artifact found.
A. Activate switch, mobs will spawn before you quite reach switch so mission updates and switch is optional & not required
B. Scan for clues by locking enemies, locking the squad and starting combat completes this step dropping a blue mission crate
C. Loot mission item(steps C & D can be done in any order and both appear once the mission crate drops)
D. Kill all enemies
E. Deliver mission item to any terminal

Ambushed-
A. Find artifact nearby, mobs will spawn instead of artifact pop when found
B. Kill all enemies

Guardians of the Past-
A. Find artifact nearby, mobs & an artifact container will pop
B. Loot mission item
C. Kill all enemies
D.  Deliver mission item to any terminal

The Secret Den-
A. Scout location, mobs will spawn
B. Lock on enemies to "scan", blue mission crate will drop
C. Loot mission item
D. Kill all enemies
E. Deliver to a specific dropbox, mission will update with a new location a sec later
F. Find artifact nearby, mobs will pop
G. Kill all enemies

Squad size and composition: These are the same squads faced doing Lvl 4 combat missions, 3-4 mobs, lights through mechs & industrial heavies(Riv/Sym), up to T5.

Pay and relation: Once again I have 5 EP in combat specialization which is combat and combat exploration both. I ramped up to 5x for bonuses then wrote how much I made for which mission till I had 2-3 each. Following the above list-
Trap- 400-500k
Ambushed- 700k-1M
Guardians- 800k-1M
Den- 1.2M-1.6M
Relation gain is the same as combat missions at .52 with 5 EP in contract negotiations.

I'll edit my post above later with the correct mission names, objective lists and pay rates. Can someone else with EP in other mission specializations and/or running other mission types note and post up breakdowns for them please?