1 (edited by Annihilator 2014-10-15 16:16:58)

Topic: Question to DEVs (Mineral spawn system) *updated*

is the mineral database still comparable with a "bitmap" ?

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Re: Question to DEVs (Mineral spawn system) *updated*

yes

3 (edited by Annihilator 2012-09-28 00:17:40)

Re: Question to DEVs (Mineral spawn system) *updated*

ok, thank you for the confirmation. without that i wouldn't have been able to ask the actual "questions":
(since im no coder, i have to continue to use the figurative speech)

  • Assumptions:
    so - currently, each "tile" represents a "pixel" of a rather large uncompressed bitmap (2048x2048) depending on the bit depth, you probabyl have something like a few identification bits for the ore type, and the others for the actual amount (like hue and saturation of a picture).

    That way you cannot have more then one ore type per tile if they are all in one "picture" (which i assume is the case atm), and even "empty" tiles consume memory.

    You also cannot identify ore deposits as "one entity" after their random creation, nor can you apply additional "data" to a deposit, like a "creation date" or such, because you would need to write that into each pixel and that would blow up the memory usage again.

  • Question
    If my assumptions are right, my question would be - could you modify that system so mineral data is stored like a in a vector image, that handles individual ore deposits as entities?
    That way you would be able to handle them with greater flexibility, adding attributes to deposits.
    each coordinate on the map could contain multiple ores, while keeping filesize low.

Just imagine the possiblities:

  • adding "depth" attribute to HDT - small deposits easy to be found on the "surface", or huge deposits so deep down that you need a mining tower to access them.

  • Revamping the geoscan accuracy system, so instead adding (noob unfriendly) static noise, it affects which deposits your able to find.

  • Easy identification of half-mined deposits that should be purged at some point

  • certain geoscanner charges could count whole deposits instead of just single tiles *hint*

  • Variable Isotope spawn rate per ore

  • Having a "center" coordinate for each deposit would also make it easier to script Niani NPC Mining operations

  • ... im sure your creative minds would find even more advantages

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Re: Question to DEVs (Mineral spawn system) *updated*

Adding it all up, seems more like a change for the sake of change.

Re: Question to DEVs (Mineral spawn system) *updated*

Doek wrote:

Adding it all up, seems more like a change for the sake of change.

adding your post up, it seems its a post for the sake of a post...

and i dont know what you did add up - after all its a question to the coder DEV, who is the only one who can answer it.

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Re: Question to DEVs (Mineral spawn system) *updated*

if tis willl be "easy" to make you can indeed make the ore and scyn system way more intresting. i especially like the idea of the "depth" of the deposits where you need high scanner accuracy to find it.

this also could open up a lot good possible options for future "expansions" and features.

of cource we have more urgent things atm, but the ideas behind this and its possibilities are excellent.

Re: Question to DEVs (Mineral spawn system) *updated*

Annihilator wrote:
Doek wrote:

Adding it all up, seems more like a change for the sake of change.

adding your post up, it seems its a post for the sake of a post...

and i dont know what you did add up - after all its a question to the coder DEV, who is the only one who can answer it.

Most, if not all what you describe can be done with a bitmap just as fine. A 2048x2048 bitmap with a few spots on it consumes probably less than a hundred kilobytes, which is stored server-side anyway (would be disturbing if it isn't).

Re: Question to DEVs (Mineral spawn system) *updated*

*bump*

the question is not only about filesize... and the question about the bitmap is ony a figure for uncompressed data - a 24bit 2048x2048 bitmap will always have 12MB, no matter if its black, white or mona lisa...


for one reason, you may tell its only a few kilobytes - actually its those kilobytes per such layer per island. and what you say, is not possible with the file format of "bitmap".
Its possible with most other formats that support layer and vectors...

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Re: Question to DEVs (Mineral spawn system) *updated*

Keep in mind that I'm no coder either.

But common sense tells me that there is really no point in using vector formats for mineral fields if the end result has to be a grid due to the tiled nature of the terrain. If you can mine the tiles of a field in a random manner, eventually that will become a noise pattern. And noise is much harder to store in a vector format than in a bitmap.

Re: Question to DEVs (Mineral spawn system) *updated*

probably "vector" is not the right word.

compare it with the how the "worldmap" works

when you open the map, you have 36 small pictures arranged in that limit-less map. I am pretty sure they are placed on some world coordinates, while each "island" on its own is a coordinate system (and with the simple involved vector math, you calculate the inter-island teleport distances).

on the other hand, the worldmap print-out command doesnt work anymore, due to the fact that its writing a huge bitmap where each blue pixel is 24bit, making the file several gigabytes in size (>100GB)

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Re: Question to DEVs (Mineral spawn system) *updated*

So I guess what you propose is to not have an island-sized mineral map, but instead have smaller individual mineral maps laid over the map at the proper coordinates?

Re: Question to DEVs (Mineral spawn system) *updated*

DEV Zoom wrote:

So I guess what you propose is to not have an island-sized mineral map, but instead have smaller individual mineral maps laid over the map at the proper coordinates?

that comes close to it, yes. though, i would not place "bitmaps" but something more sophisticated, without dimensional restrictions, higher flexibility, and much more future proof. (imagine doubling the number of different ores under the current system and its implications). see posts above.

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Re: Question to DEVs (Mineral spawn system) *updated*

wow, almost exactly two years between the last DEV Comment in here, and the announcement to put it onto the server

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14 (edited by Ville 2014-10-15 16:43:26)

Re: Question to DEVs (Mineral spawn system) *updated*

At this development Pace, I think... hmm A Heavy mech hauler is on the list next fuuu

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Re: Question to DEVs (Mineral spawn system) *updated*

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … ld-system/

I suggested a similar system that can go well with this change i guess. ^

RIP PERPETUUM

16 (edited by Annihilator 2014-10-15 17:15:08)

Re: Question to DEVs (Mineral spawn system) *updated*

well, yourse war specific on whats gained from mining,
mine was about how mineral fields are generated and stored by the server, and what you could do with it.

but yeah, the announced change will open up the mineral spawning system to much more possibilities then it had on plain bitmap based

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear