26 (edited by Hunter 2012-04-04 17:46:57)

Re: [Concept] The moving of money

Celebro wrote:

I what's the problem exactly with NIC accumulation , I don't really see a big issue with that.


Edit: PVE and Mining, money in/PVP, money out (from your wallet not game) that's how it works, nothing new here even for other MMOs it's all the same. If you don't like PVP, NIC accumulation is obvious.

Wrong. Money accumulation in the game (ie "whole game"/"game universe"/"perpetuum world") not depends of PvP or personal progress. You can't see a problem because a lot of rich chars stopped subscription. It will appear when ppl seriously will start to play.

exactly you can't understand subject because you think from personal position and a personal interests.

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Re: [Concept] The moving of money

Are you suggesting voluntary or involuntary nic-sinks?

28 (edited by Celebro 2012-04-04 19:13:03)

Re: [Concept] The moving of money

Hunter wrote:
Celebro wrote:

I what's the problem exactly with NIC accumulation , I don't really see a big issue with that.


Edit: PVE and Mining, money in/PVP, money out (from your wallet not game) that's how it works, nothing new here even for other MMOs it's all the same. If you don't like PVP, NIC accumulation is obvious.

Wrong. Money accumulation in the game (ie "whole game"/"game universe"/"perpetuum world") not depends of PvP or personal progress. You can't see a problem because a lot of rich chars stopped subscription. It will appear when ppl seriously will start to play.

exactly you can't understand subject because you think from personal position and a personal interests.

So what you are saying is NIC accumulation is bad as players leave after they have it all? If yes, I guess it's a problem with game content not NIC. Most MMOs have same problem, in EVE its the same thing after you reached the 'top' at your chosen 'grinding' profession there is little reason to spend more money.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: [Concept] The moving of money

Hopefully the PBS blueprints will stay as NIC sink

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Re: [Concept] The moving of money

Line wrote:

fuuu MONEY Y U NO MOVE!?

My favorite part of this entire post.

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Re: [Concept] The moving of money

Celebro wrote:

So what you are saying is NIC accumulation is bad as players leave after they have it all? If yes, I guess it's a problem with game content not NIC. Most MMOs have same problem, in EVE its the same thing after you reached the 'top' at your chosen 'grinding' profession there is little reason to spend more money.

Please stop look from personal side. People leaving the game with absolutely another issue and with other reasons. I want to say that if ppl stop to leave the game, then appears problems with money.

You still not understand my point and game issue.

The theory of mutual interests
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Re: [Concept] The moving of money

However, PvP does not reduce the NIC in the game.  The only thing that takes NIC out of the game is if it gets given to NPCs for some reason.  Otherwise, it just circulates, as PvP losses are replaced at the market or through production.

Now, NIC circulating does stimulate the economy.  So what is the problem?

Inflation.

Eventually there is a huge amount of NIC in the system.

Is Inflation bad?  Yes and no.

If a huge amount of money in the hands of whichever segment of players are "the NIC stops here" players, then whether inflation is bad essentially depends on what can be done with the NIC.  Also, as has already been observed, if they feel that they have "won" the game they may leave-- but if they do, that takes some NIC out of the mix.  Not good for company revenue, though, because accounts get closed.

If a lot of players have hundreds of millions or billions, and continue to play and decide to purchase things, then prices for hard goods get driven up and newcomers will find themselves incapable of buying anything high-end in a sandbox system, unless individuals or corps simply practice charity.  That has not happened yet likely due to the low number of players-- many of those that have been here for months have just about anything they want already, so all they would spend NIC on is stockpiling extras and replacements in case PvP picks up.

Inflation also makes the game very shaky, if there are any items that have an out-of-game significance-- for example the ability to purchase game time with NIC.  Perp does not have this system, but if it ever did, infinite NIC sources and very few sinks could cause great problems for the parent company.  Not because the game time would not have to be bought for real money, but because people with huge amounts of NIC could in effect price control the value of game time extensions, or even attempt to corner the market, and that is a bridge between real money and play money.  NIC-for-game-time also still ends up simply putting the NIC in the hands of the player selling the time-- unless only the NPCs (company) sell the time directly-- but then the company loses revenue: deadly.

The other sandbox game has almost reached the crisis point regarding this right now: they are already about to implement "watchdog" measures regarding their gametime-for-play-money system.

If more players join the game, it will stimulate the market-- for a time.  But as the OP understands, more and more players means more and more NIC entering the game without any exit point.

Regarding Inflation, if the PBS system keeps any high end items as strictly NPC-supplied, and if the costs are high, then that will serve as a NIC sink where it is needed-- at the high end.  Whether it will be enough of a sink will not be predictable until population and Terraforming start to set up the new dynamic.

If, due to typical "sandbox" philosophy, it eventually becomes possible for player characters to produce all of the new items, then the NIC sink disappears again and Inflation again may become a problem.

Re: [Concept] The moving of money

RL inflation model doesn't work here in the same way - if some Sadrotte keeps buying an entire market - thats his problem mostly, not the mechanics.

Any NPC goods, to create an outcome, snould be non-craftable and non-recycleable - well, they better shouldn't be any robots and modules at all, but ok. As I've already said, there are 3 good possibilities to money outcome - convertation to another currency controlled by GMs or AI (tokens), a possibility to buy a game-time for ingame money (plex), and another way to use reactor plasma (PBS).

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Re: [Concept] The moving of money

In a player run economy, NIC accumulation is not a problem. NIC is just like any other commodity ingame, its value will get lower the more NIC there is. The only problem is plasma which is not player run, and rewards for that will decrease as money has less value.

RIP PERPETUUM