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Re: Where are we going?

Are you asking for a heads up so you know what to spend your ep on now so that you can be uber in the future?

I've told everyone who's asked and plenty that didnt that I never wanted to specialize my character so much I'd be obselte in any certain bot if it got nerfed or something else was more powerful.

Would you believe I'm probaly the only early access guy on the server that's still active with a combat oriented character who ISNT in a heavy mech? It's because I kept all my basic robotics skills, and I spec'd heavily into EW as well. Now, maybe you can do some things better then me, but I can easily jump into any thelodica bot, besides seth, drive a sequer and ew the crap out of you.

Specialization has a price. Sure being the best in any certain bot is a good thing, but that bot isnt going to be useful in every situation. I guess i'll be left out if RG ever decides to do a heavy mech only roam. I've felt pretty left out all these times that they're running in kains and I can't go because my artemis only does 71 and that's with gimp fittings.

Having plans for the future and all is great, but we're playing here and now. Besides, if you read the Q&A from beta, the devs stated there were eventually going to be destroyer class bots. Might want to start saving up your EP for them now. I mean... that's where all the end game pvp will be. Oh, and don't forget artillery, there'll be some of that.

But until that comes out, why not quit the *** and moaning about assaults (and this isn't directed at any one certain person, i've heard several people crying about losing heavy mechs to a 15 man assault group). It doesn't cost that much to get into an assault, and a few points into masking, and you're good to go. New people will have MORE FUN because they'll have viable tactics for lower ep.

They can be countered by all the things that the beta island corps promote... working together as a team. You might lose a few bots here and there solo or in small groups, but that's the price you pay for living on beta island. Plus it'll give you something to do to replace it when it gets blown up. Plus the alpha island more casual players and pvpers will be able to compete... maybe only to the extent of killing a couple people caught out traveling alone, or lone unscouted rivelers, but it's something.

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Re: Where are we going?

No i am not asking for a heads up at all, the pure fact that you are that short sighted as to where my goals are to see this game grow is insulting. Lets start reading what i am posting and stop this QQ and "Buff me, Nerf Them" bantering.

The question was "Where are we going" as in i want to know what sort of game/direction are we heading not what the next FOTM is or next new bot to save my EP for. When you fit your bot you are always strong in one department and weak in another. As a tank you have superior tank but inferior Speed and in the opposite when you go for speed you lose tank. When you equip Neuts you eliminate a enamys effectiveness and lesson your dps if you have any. This game is about giving and taking (at least it used to be).

The idea isnt that "OOOOO ASSAULTS ARE OP WE CANT STOP THEM" its what are you sacraficing by running them? Nothing you are able to gain the best of everything. Now Yes you can kill them and quiet easily rip them to shreds, But lets go ahead and look at how you would do that.

Gang Fit, Speed/Range. *Required* Detector/Marker. *required* L-Demober and Bag and tag. So to start you have to have 2 high EP , High cost module fit mechs to begin the construction of a strong counter gang. Now lets look at the opposite, "oh you can just tank them" if that is your response i want you to ask your self, WHO IN THERE RIGHT MIND WOULD RUN A GROUP OF ASSAULTS IN TO A TANK WALL. No one... But wait how are they able to avoid this.... By being able to have superior Detection and only be seen sub 350m to a non detecting bot and moving faster than anything beside bots that have less sight range and firepower.

So wait a assault can out stealth faster bots than it... out run bots and hide form bots with superior fire power and at a fraction of the cost. Hell lets have respawn while we are at it.


You all seem to fail to realize what the essence of this game was, which is making choices and sacrifices to gain certain benefits for a fit. I have no issue with cost effective bots that allow young new players to get in to pvp, but you have to remember the foundation of this game.

I am behind the developers decision but am curious to there new steps of action. I invite any logical and thought out disputes of balance and ideals to be presented. Frankly i am sick and tired of annoyed newbs rage posting about things being OP with out a logical fix or work around or a strong argument to why something is overpowerd. The only other player i have seen on these forums to present relevant and strong arguments a majority of the time for balance is Alexander. He and He alone i could see sitting down and having a good conversation and hammering out a nice list of player opinions towards balance but as for the rest of you its frankly sad and pathetic.

Troll this, QQ this all you want. Learn what a Rock,paper,scissor balance is and work around it. For every fit there is a counter and for every extreme fit there is a equal and opposite extreme counter, if there isnt ill be the first to suggest it to the Dev's.

P.S. if i have 1v 3+ed you and your corp GTFO of my thread please and come back when you understand mechanics and proper game play.

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
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Re: Where are we going?

Lemon wrote:

No i am not asking for a heads up at all, the pure fact that you are that short sighted as to where my goals are to see this game grow is insulting. Lets start reading what i am posting and stop this QQ and "Buff me, Nerf Them" bantering.

The question was "Where are we going" as in i want to know what sort of game/direction are we heading not what the next FOTM is or next new bot to save my EP for. When you fit your bot you are always strong in one department and weak in another. As a tank you have superior tank but inferior Speed and in the opposite when you go for speed you lose tank. When you equip Neuts you eliminate a enamys effectiveness and lesson your dps if you have any. This game is about giving and taking (at least it used to be).

The idea isnt that "OOOOO ASSAULTS ARE OP WE CANT STOP THEM" its what are you sacraficing by running them? Nothing you are able to gain the best of everything. Now Yes you can kill them and quiet easily rip them to shreds, But lets go ahead and look at how you would do that.

Gang Fit, Speed/Range. *Required* Detector/Marker. *required* L-Demober and Bag and tag. So to start you have to have 2 high EP , High cost module fit mechs to begin the construction of a strong counter gang. Now lets look at the opposite, "oh you can just tank them" if that is your response i want you to ask your self, WHO IN THERE RIGHT MIND WOULD RUN A GROUP OF ASSAULTS IN TO A TANK WALL. No one... But wait how are they able to avoid this.... By being able to have superior Detection and only be seen sub 350m to a non detecting bot and moving faster than anything beside bots that have less sight range and firepower.

So wait a assault can out stealth faster bots than it... out run bots and hide form bots with superior fire power and at a fraction of the cost. Hell lets have respawn while we are at it.


You all seem to fail to realize what the essence of this game was, which is making choices and sacrifices to gain certain benefits for a fit. I have no issue with cost effective bots that allow young new players to get in to pvp, but you have to remember the foundation of this game.

I am behind the developers decision but am curious to there new steps of action. I invite any logical and thought out disputes of balance and ideals to be presented. Frankly i am sick and tired of annoyed newbs rage posting about things being OP with out a logical fix or work around or a strong argument to why something is overpowerd. The only other player i have seen on these forums to present relevant and strong arguments a majority of the time for balance is Alexander. He and He alone i could see sitting down and having a good conversation and hammering out a nice list of player opinions towards balance but as for the rest of you its frankly sad and pathetic.

Troll this, QQ this all you want. Learn what a Rock,paper,scissor balance is and work around it. For every fit there is a counter and for every extreme fit there is a equal and opposite extreme counter, if there isnt ill be the first to suggest it to the Dev's.

P.S. if i have 1v 3+ed you and your corp GTFO of my thread please and come back when you understand mechanics and proper game play.


tl;dr
QQ 4-5 noobs in assaults can take my super duper tanked artemis. Srsly, you can talk about how you're having a serious discussion all you want, but at the end of the day, that's what it boils down to.

So... now you have to use tactics to fight noobs in assaults instead of walking all over them. Which, by the way, will happen as soon as you realize that 2 people in a mech squad with weapon stabs will *** them. So what if they get away because you can't see them. Speacialize into a detector toon, you're so for specialization.

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Re: Where are we going?

All respect to lemon for bringing up the unbalance.... but it would have never had to been brought up had he not posted about being *** by 5-7 assaults. He gave up his weakness in his own Mech set up to post this whole thing. I agree they are a touch to fast but before you go nerfing their speed lets look at it, Whats the top speed of a speed fit kain vs a full fit waspish?

I may have even been a factor in this when I said in Incoming Podcast that the Assaults weren't viable... Fredrich posted up I was insane... I replyed with they can be caught and killed with any thing that sees them they are now glorified arches parked on TPs cause they still couldn't run, I said on air maybe we should see that bonus to mech damage back.

If the dev's had given assaults back their damage vs mech bonus and not speed buffed what do you think the out come would have been.... Still Alex would have killed lemon.... I think nothing personal lemon, but you need to give Alex more cred than you have he probably had you scouted and worked out this plan way before the assault buff even happened, he just needed the right bait to pull you in with.

The OP I again went back to. "Highlight."

Do you want players to have to use tactics to beat a enemy? Stress the importance of counter fitting? Or are we just going to eliminate any extreme fits because groups of players are unable to counter fit.

Are you really asking this in a sandbox brosef? Seriously I won't even bring up stEVE comparisons but man listen to yourself. Fitting to counter someones extreme fit is the game, you've been figured out by one group doesn't mean they shared info keep that fit but build one to counter the ones that countered you. You shared that info on the forum with us. Thanks we all know if we see lemon moving slow bring Neuts!!!

again original OP

And I am only pleading we don't dumb this game down.


Again sorry lemon the only thing that has been dumb about the whole situation is when you posted your weakness to the whole server ever wonder why Alex has that Nohope logo over his mods in his videos. I think the game as a whole just got more interesting alot more fits are viable in game as a whole. Maybe next time you go down it will be to 5 sequers all ECM fit cause you wont shoot them (battle badger?)when they are right under you.

TL;DR
You got your answer from the devs this is a sandbox and Mechs even with extreme fits can be countered. There will never be a true king of the hill.

FFS please keep your IMBA posts in the proper forum

80 Reply by Line (edited by Line 2011-06-23 07:49:09)

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Re: Where are we going?

OP isn't 3-5 assaults killing 1 solo man. OP is - everyone now using them and only them for fights. Leave them as they are, and you will see invisible fighters fights invisible enemies. Let it be 100 ppl running on island all day trying to find each other.

Speed AND stealth - fail. Speed OR stealth - more likeable stuff.

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Re: Where are we going?

Line wrote:

Speed AND stealth - fail. Speed OR stealth - more likeable stuff.

quoting for the main thing that made the assaults unbalanced. Split up assaults into two versions - one with speed, one with stealth.

lower the the ap consumption of eccm, and lower the effect (and remove the unique module status)

dont really know how 20s ewar immunity for empty accumulator would be a "GTFO" mode.
those 20s could have helped Lemon in that situation, as he was about 100m away from the outposts docking range when he got immobilized. on the other side, he with all those neuts aiming at him, and the exchange of one repair tuining in headslot he probably wouldn't had survived even with that one.

and after the assault war has ended, the next topic will be about neuts and drainer.
All the whining about them not having enough extension to make them better:
you got now RANGE + Efficiency extensions. I can already see the shield ictus hordes running around again, using drainer + shield.

or even worse, drainer seth...

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Re: Where are we going?

Line wrote:

Let it be 100 ppl running on island all day trying to find each other.

Isn't this already true on Beta? Lets ask TeamAB how long were you solo roaming the one night and saw nothing 3-4 hours? I won't quote as it was said in general chat in-game. We already have ppl wondering all night seeing nothing but ghosts and NPCs.

This to shall pass as the Devs have stated that there will be 2 assault classes normal speed normal detect and slow speed highly stealthy.

I think if they are adding these things to the game now whatsfurther down the road.... (Like OP wants to know where are we going?) Will we see another Mech dedicated to stealth or a H Mech with Ewar bonus? The further we think this out the further we are getting tangled in to the paper rock scissors as was stated before.

I think we should sit back and enjoy a "buffed" assault while its here. When its gone the gripes about the nerf will appear we should get a decicated gripe forum.

I think there should be a GTFO mod but it should prevent you from fireing weapons and using any e-war/ engineering mod. It should be a pure 15 sec I'm running away mod if in 15 sec you can't gtfo your gonna get re-tackled and poped!. This will encourage station hugging oh wait we can't have that either! So if you use this mod you will have instabality for 45 sec.... fixed that too.

Or even better while im feeling trolly lets make a perma mod in each bot thats their Racial mod have it be their bonus so were all equal untill we hit that mod with the uber cool down, like it give 30 secs of increased DPS, 900 more armor, increased rep rates, boost to suppressing or a white flag that pops outta your arm as you run away.


TL;DR   Bottom line
Seems to be were asking for End game of a game thats still IMO in infancy.

FFS please keep your IMBA posts in the proper forum
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Re: Where are we going?

Khadia Khan wrote:

Or even better while im feeling trolly lets make a perma mod in each bot thats their Racial mod have it be their bonus so were all equal untill we hit that mod with the uber cool down, like it give 30 secs of increased DPS, 900 more armor, increased rep rates, boost to suppressing or a white flag that pops outta your arm as you run away.

somehow this reminds me on Assault mode in AutoAssault big_smile (where one race had a short traveling mode, one race a lightshow, and one race ultra-pwn imba mode)

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84 Reply by Exomorph (edited by Exomorph 2011-06-23 11:27:37)

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Re: Where are we going?

Smokeyii wrote:

I'll give to you guys one point, I think the assualt speed changes were a little much... with empasis on the little. A waspish doing 85? An arbie doing 95? That's a little bit much. Slow them down a little bit, keep assaults in the game as they are now.

Please calculate just with speed w/o nexus. FYI Waspish can do 78-79. Arbalest 83-85.
Everything was started from Kains speed, couse they could outrun every bots except light ew-s. So if DEVs would balanced kain speed that fits to other type of bots speed balance, than would be all ok. Now we can use assaults in pvp, but DEVs buffed them too much with stealth.
So there is 2 solution :
1:) Nerf back JUST masking to max 140-150. (relatively fast but more like dps bot)
2:) Bring us new ew-assault bot with ew bonuses and high masking, but MAX 3 weapon slots. (fast ew specced but LOW dps)

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Re: Where are we going?

Can't wait Destroyers implemented and holywars around them big_smile

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Re: Where are we going?

Lets look at what i wrote "15 chaos in 78 seconds from the first rocket hitting me. I was 500m off the outpost when they hit my radar....  Props to chaos." and i also talked to alex Offline about how good of a job they did. FYI it was 15 assaults you forgot a 1. To put my fit in to perspective for you, 4 or 5 assaults couldn't get me below 90% Hp.


I am not pleading to keep my fit relevant nor do i care if it stays viable. I have 4 combat toons all speced for different jobs and roles to those extreme i can adjust my primary to what i see fit as funnest to play at will. But lets go ahead and look outside of my mech which it appears is very difficult for a majority of you.

So if im in a bot that is able to catch a assault, i can move 120+ but only see a assault at 350m without it masking. So that means the only bot that can run it down can A. be demobed before it even sees a assault and be in firing range of any decent fit assault.


I am not going to sit here and go back and forth on this. I await the devs changes to see the direction we will e going in.

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle

87 Reply by Mara Kaid (edited by Mara Kaid 2011-06-23 21:42:17)

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Re: Where are we going?

Smokeyii wrote:

tl;dr
QQ 4-5 noobs in assaults can take my super duper tanked artemis. Srsly, you can talk about how you're having a serious discussion all you want, but at the end of the day, that's what it boils down to.

So... now you have to use tactics to fight noobs in assaults instead of walking all over them. Which, by the way, will happen as soon as you realize that 2 people in a mech squad with weapon stabs will *** them. So what if they get away because you can't see them. Speacialize into a detector toon, you're so for specialization.

Smokeyii has got it. I know how to counter assault gangs, and it's not hard to fit 1 module. Sorry you can't do this.


Lemon wrote:

<Lemon> Alf be on todaY?
<Someone Important> not sure
<Someone Important> what's up?
<Lemon> wanted to pick his head
<Lemon> Congradulations for him
<Someone Important> tbh I am the one behind getting the assault stealth bonus reverted
<Someone Important> and the ECCM reverted
<Someone Important> it interrupts the philosophy smile
<Lemon> I lost faith in the forums
<Lemon> so wanted to chat with people able to look at things as a whole
<Someone Important> I though the ERP's linear accu recharge was a bit over the top, as neuts didn't work on it while there was damage incoming
<Someone Important> I spammed the repper and could always get cycles in
<Someone Important> the larger the neuts, the better it worked
<Lemon> did you test vs light bots?
<Lemon> light bots even with 15 on me wernt giving me enough accummulator
<Lemon> was interesting
<Lemon> the % scaled horribly

** Complete log up till that comment, thank you AgY.


Guess he needs erps that work against 30 light bots to be considered balanced....

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Re: Where are we going?

If we talk about balance, I don't see how one mech that can tank how many ever other mechs under an outpost for pretty much ever is anywhere near balanced.

89 Reply by AgY (edited by AgY 2011-06-23 21:31:59)

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Re: Where are we going?

Mara you posted logs that are taken out of context. The log is incomplete and youve removed some lines.
That makes you a liar.

AgY wrote:

...
And discussing changes on the forums only leads to muckraking because some people are not interested in real balance. All they want is a personal advantage. (thats how we got this assault mess)

Im out of this thread.

90 Reply by Mara Kaid (edited by Mara Kaid 2011-06-23 21:49:08)

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Re: Where are we going?

AgY wrote:

you posted logs that are taken out of context. The log is incomplete

Those are complete. To that point, thanks.

and smokeyii has another point

smokeyii wrote:

If we talk about balance, I don't see how one mech that can tank how many ever other mechs under an outpost for pretty much ever is anywhere near balanced.

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91 Reply by Smokeyii (edited by Smokeyii 2011-06-24 04:02:43)

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Re: Where are we going?

<Someone Important> tbh I am the one behind getting the assault stealth bonus reverted
<Someone Important> and the ECCM reverted
<Someone Important> it interrupts the philosophy smile


That part of the log has me concerned. I don't know who it is, nor do I care, but that concerns me.

It sounds like some bitter vet who's territory has been threatened by newer players being able to come out and compete. What they're failing to realize is... even if they've spec'd away from basic robotics stuff, should they choose to have fun with the other guys doing it, they could always pick up a new account. You can get into an assault from day one.

I doubt anyone is going to be bringing assault squads on intrusions btw. Maybe if you're feeling lonely and want to have a fight in mechs and heavy mechs, make an intrusion happen.

I'm really hoping they don't revert the changes. I see no problem with a waspish going as fast as Kain, with baphomet and arbie even faster. I also don't see a problem with them being stealth as they are. I see no need to change them from their current form, because some bitter vet has decided they are upset because the game has changed.

If the bots do change, are we going to get a mrk2 variant of that as well? Is it going to require espitium, briochit or alligior to make? I certainly hope not, or kiss it being new player friendly goodbye.

Seriously, would you rather sit on your island 24/7, mining away, building up... and then hardly ever fighting, because you spent so long mining and hauling that you don't want to risk it getting blown up?

Or would you rather have lots of fun fights, where the things you blow up and get blown up in aren't THAT important? But hey.. maybe you can have lots of fun showing up on someones door and suprising a miner or lithus. Then it's a race to see if you and your buddies can blow up that lithus before he makes it to station or the teleporter. Or his buddies show up to save him...

Most of the fights I remember  are the ones that we laughed about, wether we killed stuff or not. I haven't been on too many of those lately. The last one I remember was Dark Omega, and a couple of other guys (sorry forget your names) from CIR, and we took out t1 fitted assaults and killed 2 kains and 2 castels. The best thing about it was the suprise factor.

Think long and hard about what you want from perpetuum. Ask yourself also what will happen if the game does not grow. I sure as hell had alot more fun 3 months ago in light bots when there was tons of people to shoot at... and get shot by. Whatever it takes for this game to have people like that again... or MORE... I'll stand behind.

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Re: Where are we going?

Lets have mechs and h-mechs for farming and mining only.
Lets make a new accounts or respec current ones for assaults.
Lets see all fights in assaults only.

Assaults are so good atm so everyone will make them main strike force, you bet it. Why do we need anything else then?

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
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Re: Where are we going?

I think it's fairly obvious which 'novastrov vets' are campaigning for this since every other vet Corp seems quite opposed to it. I wonder why?? Could it be that their unlimited supplies won't help them against this, nor will their blob. Oh gawd, you don't mean they'll need tactics!!!!

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Re: Where are we going?

Assaults are strong not only on Novastrov, Jelan.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
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Re: Where are we going?

what i really dont get in this discussion - whats wrong with a mech that can tank several other mechs, while it has not much firepower, nor can it move or keep the lock up if those "several other mechs" have ewar support, like the all over the place praised "tackler noob" and a specialized ewar veteran.

he is on medium firearms, with only one tuning and no stabilizer - he wont even hit a light ewar with evasive module.

ontop of that - he is specialized in tanking, probably with both extensions on lvl10, with adv. robots also on at least 8, got the full mk2 mech equipped with t4 equip.


unlike the former imba shield tank ictus that could do the same with nearly no extension higher then 5... THIS is a valid build.

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Re: Where are we going?

Annihilator wrote:

unlike the former imba shield tank ictus that could do the same with nearly no extension higher then 5... THIS is a valid build.

Totally valid build.

I can tell you guys, if we took all the listed comments and implemented them to the game, you would have prefit robots with an on/off button on them. The beauty of the game is that a combination of planning, effort, training and wealth will catch your opponents off guard.

However, this is best suited for hit and runs. If you get figured out you die, right Lemon? smile

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Re: Where are we going?

DEV Calvin wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

unlike the former imba shield tank ictus that could do the same with nearly no extension higher then 5... THIS is a valid build.

Totally valid build.

I can tell you guys, if we took all the listed comments and implemented them to the game, you would have prefit robots with an on/off button on them. The beauty of the game is that a combination of planning, effort, training and wealth will catch your opponents off guard.

However, this is best suited for hit and runs. If you get figured out you die, right Lemon? smile

Omg, I agree with you!!! Weird man!!

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Re: Where are we going?

Line wrote:

Assaults are strong not only on Novastrov, Jelan.

But only novablob members are whining, " I lost my unkillable robot, please fix m'kay"

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Re: Where are we going?

You're acting as if it's someone paying you for each hate-post against CIR or....you have a butthurt big_smile

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
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100 Reply by Jelan

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Re: Where are we going?

Falling back on the ol' "your butthurt" is not a valid or reliable way of deflecting ok?