Hey Green - hopefully the DEVs wont listen to anybody on the forums - thats the worst thing they could do - since customers will never be satisfied due to some people soaking up the current content while others still want new one. You will always please some and negate others - so they should concentrate their effort on their own vision.

If they have one - it may become edgy and stuff - but special in its own way. Thats the only way to go for something that will hopefully be able to last. Players think they know what they would like but in fact would find it boring if they actually get it. Thats not a theory but gaming history.

Why do you think OP characters/classes do exist in MMOs? Not because DEVs are too silly to adjust accordingly - it called rolling OP and is a design to keep people satisfied while others are not. Discussions about those unbalances and the hope to fix them keep games alive. Experienced DEVs use this mechanics on purpose to make their games last long. But this must come from the DEVs themselves and not the COM. If the DEVs dont use these tools and follow the COM - any game is doomed.

Its like with the donkey and the carrot. I am the donkey - pvp on alpha is my carrot.

No, you're just an ***.

Thank you, though, for finally abandoning the false authority, and admitting that this is what you've wanted all along. In other words, thanks for "owning yourself."

The game isn't that old the content is low I mean take a look at the download size

However the current protected areas that allow players to mission run and mine or even just kernal grind should stay as they are, we constantly reference this title against EVE ... Maybe we do this because at the end of the day I don't know about you but I always wanted something like this in EVE, now I have it only its Perpetuum and its still a baby which means that things do suck "compared to other games" and "things are missing" compared to certain games and "we all want it yesterday" but give it time ...

At this stage in the titles progression to force those who wish to grind safely in the Alpha would be a bad move and thats why I doubt you will ever see it happen, what you will instead see is missions or temptations for PvE players that will lead them to new content or islands or land or whatever the DEV do that will mean that the player will have to make a choice and analyze the "risk" of engaging in PvP which in turn still isn't really forcing it to happen ... if anything I feel the "layers of security" will be fine tuned but you will always have "High Sec" ...

PvE and Me?

It's not that bad ... Beta island / alliance troubles / blah blah aside ... I actually have a dam great time PvE'ing with my corp chatting on TS and grinding those mods and kernals to help fund the free robots the corp gives me is great, we laugh we give each other a bit of crap here and there and we talk about what we are aiming for ...

Then again (and I am not having a go or assuming other corps ages etc etc etc) TOG corpies are all over 25, mature and have a great outlook on how to take a "boring" game and make it fun ...

Forced? Nothing should be "forced" there should be freedom to what ever actions I feel like taking,. if thats to suicide my ship to kill you for fast locking and get jailed to beta for a week then so be it,. I want that freedom to act on what ever actions I so please, I deal with the repercussions later,. so yea,. I think some of the PVE crowd should lick there wounds ,. pull there pants up and stop asking for a such a safe bowl of cookies to eat from.

I played it all man,. I would rather play a game where someone can take my milk money and then $hit on me,. I want to feel like its a struggle to survive,. I do understand though that the games needs a warm protective woom for new players to spawn out of. But there HAS to be potential risk of dieing by the hand of players ALL THE TIME..

The part that frustrates me is,. why the hell did you pay to play a OPEN PVP game?

I'm not gonna renew my crafter,. I dont need him. so why would I need you around? you see thats the problem,. the game offers a free basket of cookies that offer me everything.

Once the prototype arms race is over and people just run there own lines,. your dead meat man,. this system is going to hang you out to dry if your only a crafter. why? .. Well I think its obvious, the risk free millions and loads of mats I get, Kernals to research,. and the easyness of running my own lines,... yea I think you get the point..

Will this all get fixed if I can gank a few noobs?,. obviously not,. but no pvp at all on Alpha is contributing to this big time,. Its a freeking monster of a problem,. and they need to take swift action or its the vary players there trying to keep that will be on there way out with many others.

your both like little kids.
summary of the whole 38 pages:

grieving without any penalty for the grieving party - sucks
pve with the risk of facing PvP where you are not prepared without any reward - sucks

last page of this topic is just insults between savin and dromsex - sucks

Not at all Anni - nobody is talking about the risk of facing pvp when being not prepared. In working implementations the risk is greatly reduced and the attacker has to invest a lot while he won't be successfull if he doesnt do everything right and the victim does everything wrong. Then still odds are against him since he flags himself. Now if the PVE Com starts to have a go at each other after helping out a fella - thats a whole different part.

Being afk would be 1 thing to do wrong - manouvering into a deadend also would be one thing - but both only when lurking around in a sector where protection isnt dense enough for you to survive also is (depends on yourself, the attacker and the priority at which the guards would interrupt).

Given the guard system comes from above and the response time of defending guards depends on the vicinity of major routes, terminals and OPs AND was tied to faction standing - you could even reduce those few possibilities to 0 and the attacker wouldnt know - and itd be russian roulette for him still if he did everything right and caught a supposedly "weaker guy" offguard in a deserted alpha site.

Guard intervention at most protected areas would be a mezz and nearly insta pop for even the heaviest attackers, while an attack at a "perfect" situation: afk, weak unprepared miner caught in a lower sec area with no faction standings, arkhe for instance - would result in a dead arkhe and a pvp flagged guy getting shot at and mezzed while trying to reach a port to Beta - the only way to go for him.

Increasing number of guards and increasing waves would shatter even biggest raids. This system isnt meant to make griefing viable.

MO does something similar, though less complex - when being attacked you just type: guards and the attacker is popped instantly. The techn ical implementation in MO is pretty bad - but its effective. Once in a while somone got attacked when doing everything wrong - but the attackers got away only if the victim was afk - or the bug ridden game killed the implementation.

Now this method and chances of a surviving such an incident would neet to be recreated by an autonom system - as shown above.

And still lots of pvpers would try it though their chances are nearly null - why? Because they even have fun loosing their stuff while trying something with a success ratio of 1-2% to get away flagged to Beta where they get *** by others again.

Its just about trying.

PLEASE DON'T PVP ME, I AM NOT PREPARED FOR PVP!

MY BODY IS NOT REDYYYyyy!!!!

Its just about trying what? To ruin other players game experience to get ones jollies?  It all comes down to some people(a small fraction of the players base) wanting to ruin the play experience of those who have no interest in ganking and griefing.  Rather than content themselves with fighting those who have made a choice to PvP(by being in the Betas to start with), they instead want to be able to gank those who are neither interested or prepared for PvP.

I can just imagine the horrible fustration on the part of some people, knowing that there are a lot of other players going about their business in Alpha, and they can't be touched.  Oh the horror! The injustice of it all!...<grin> Bottom line, PvP should be a choice. If people do not wish to take part, there should still be a place for them in the game. The Alpha situation is just fine as it currently exists. If the Dev's are wise, they will leave well enough alone.

Care to be specific?

I'm personally a carebear in game and like the idea of increasing the PVP elements of Alpha islands.  I like the idea of having to be more alert, careful and intelligent in the way I mine, harvest, transport, whatever.  I think it adds a little more depth and makes the game more interesting.  And really, the more crap that gets blown up, the more opportunity for intelligent players to sell more stuff and become more profitable than those that just enjoy the perpetual grind.

I think a lot of people are basing their positions on the broken nature of PVP vs. PVE in Eve.  If non-consensual corporate wardecs from greifer corps were removed in Eve it would completely change the dynamic of PVE in the game without removing all of the High-Sec PVP elements. 

I just feel that without any risk in entering the game world then it becomes a NIC collecting grindfest.

With that being said I can see a lot of people hate this style of game play.  That's fine.  How about increasing the reward for doing some PVE in the Beta areas.  At least make it to where you don't get insta-ganked the second you enter the area.  PVE players should have the ability to survive and thrive in PVP areas if played intelligently.  The PVE'ers that are willing to take this risk should be rewarded accordingly though (unlike lowsec PVE in Eve).

Currently the PVP elements are almost completely removed from the PVE elements which seems to make them two separate games with the same chat channel.

The two sides should be interconnected.