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Arga wrote:Shin,
Dec 2011 - Mechs are expensive and take a lot of EP to drive. Very few are used in PVP, most combat is with light and assult bots because they are cheap; there is lots of cheap battles, and few expensive battle with mechs.
Dec 2012 - Mechs are cheap and everyone has the EP to drive them. They are used in PVP all the time. The Heavy Assualt Tank is expensive and takes 12 months of EP to drive, very few players have them and they are not used in PVP.
The point: The bulk of PVP will always be between cheap bots. There will always be a bot that players are drooling over to drive, but will not be used in general PVP because they are too damn expensive.
As a side note: Its still going to be relative to how much you play though. Even if you have the EP your still going to need NIC to buy and replace your bot, whatever model you are driving. Players that are on 4 hours a day are going to outdistance the 4 hour a week players. OMG.. I'm going to say it... if you want level progression go play wow (I FEEL SO DIRTY!!! LOL). But seriously hard core players that put in a lot of time are just going to be able to afford better equipment. Casual players will need to join a generous Corp to compete.
You missunderstood the point about the playing time. Playing time = progress time (+ EPs for just paying the fee). But i think youll need casuals...a lot of casuals and they should also have reasonable target within this game.
A side note to the side note: Cant understand the thing about WOW. Its a completely different but very great game. Im playing it since beta and from the start in a progressive raid guild. They found a great way between pvp and pve, casuals and pro gamers (and yes even for Blizz with multiple teams and high budget it took 2-3 years to get there...and i think that you dont have to reinvent the wheel over and over again).
You played WOW and didnt like it? Ok...but dont be that ignorant..others like it.
You played WOW but didnt managed to get to an serous playing? Well...dont be ignorant.
You never played WOW?....aeh...dont be ignorant.
What are new pilots? 1 week, 3 weeks, 20 weeks? Most ppl play for fun and thats for sure something individual. If it is the case, that 80% of all player have to sit in these spider bots for months and months, then for sure behind the 80% will be a real small number.
There has to be a progression for an average player (for example the ones with a real life that can play a few-some hours a week) and the target cant be to sit in a small metal spider or to say "hey, just another 7 months and i can pilot a mech. wohoo".
I personally fight in a mech on alpha...well, less dps than the assault bot and it takes a bit longer to destroy a target but there is a pretty simple reason: its more fun.
The Mech (class) should be a big step in the middle (and a big difference to light / assault bots!). Heavy mechs (class) are the next step youll need more time/money to get there. There can be a lot of different types Mechs (size, faction, role whatever).
A high end thing for corps could be some kind of capital class vehicles / special Mechs. The potential is big enough, even air or water units are possible (and that could really put a lot more tactics in this game) and these units should be the "not every day on a battlefield vehicles"...not a normal Mech.
Arga wrote:Yep, you don't commit your 'big guns' for skirmishes or mechs PVP roams... not until mechs become the low cost bots that is.
Thats what i hope...Mechs become standard and the "capital ships" like Savon mentioned will be implemented later. In my opinion Mechs should not be the "capital ships"
Right at the moment i think/fear, that it will stay a bug fight 
Siddy wrote:Shinain wrote:@Annihilator
As far as i know...4 M1 were lost in Iraq...and im not sure if even one was destroyed by a infantry attack.
Light bots and assault bots are infantry? Ok, they should die like infantry when hit.
Start war with country that has something else than 60's RPG's and see how it goes.
Iran is a good start, it has already managed to upgrade it's stuff to 80's and early 90's.
That would fit...the M1 for example is from the early 80´s too ( the concept several years older). Its not hollywood...you cant take cover behind the door of a car in a firefight and you need a real big punch to destroy a tank (even with something like Milan its not a one hit thing).
Arga wrote:If there is some game mechanic that stops low cost bot combat, then pvp will be 10-20 minutes of pew pew and 5-6 days of nothing.
Probably something has to be changed with the ressource/producing balance. Its a new game and a few weeks old (public) and i hope that that is not the future pvp target of the game. It will be very boring and many new player will leave after few weeks of playing (most of them want to pilot the mechs...not the small spider like cans).
Alpha """full""", Beta almost dead and pvp means to fight against the same 55 ppl over and over again...except a few alpha player that got strayed using the wrong teleporters.
Even "in our world" (and not to talk about an space traveling civilization) an modern tank can hit a driving jeep (and also a non direct hit also blows the jeep).
I fully agree to the support, team and tactics part, but not fully to your point of view. Mechs are the "pack horses" of battles (or should be it in the future of this game if there is any), there should be a lot of them on the battlefields and a "few" strategic support units (second row...third row).
But i really fear that it will end up like in EVE... 80% of all standard pvp (except bigger events) will be that vaga/wolf whatever skirmish thingies. Dozens of e-war bots and "low cost vehicles". BTW isnt it senseless that a bot with a accu power of a few hundred is able to create a force field to slow something that has a weight of 20-25 times of itself. hmmm endless discussion.
@Annihilator
As far as i know...4 M1 were lost in Iraq...and im not sure if even one was destroyed by a infantry attack.
Light bots and assault bots are infantry? Ok, they should die like infantry when hit.
Cal Sinai wrote:Tiggus wrote:You can look at the values of medium equipment and see that mechs will never be needed/efficient to kill assaults and light bots, and that is all alpha is at the moment. That is what he is saying, and he is correct in that.
Exactly. Just like you don't go rabbit hunting with an elephant gun. Not only is it more difficult to hit your target, the ammo is more expensive as well, and if you do hit it, you're not very likely to get anything worthwhile. Less reward for a larger investment is never a good idea.
I have to disagree. Its not harder to hit with an "elephant gun" and on the other hand... your rabbit (light bot) could try to bite the elephant (mech) as often as he likes...the elephant barely would notice it (there should be no dmg).
When i want to get rid of a rabbit, i can use a elephant gun, a RPG-7 or even a M1 Abraham. Probably there is nothing left to loot but to hit...this is not the problem. BTW the rabbits we are talking about have the size of a big car up to a truck.
Its the same fault as in EVE....a cruiser (or two or three) should never have any chance against a battle ship, a Sherman (or 2...3) never against a M1 and a pack of light bots should not have any chance against a Mech...and a Mech with medium weapons should not have any problems to hit (..a truck).
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