1 (edited by Jasdemi 2016-02-11 16:30:39)

Topic: Making squad missions worthwhile

TL;DR wrote:
  • Agents doing missions together in a squad make less each than doing them solo.

  • Token rewards don't scale and only one agent receives them.

Let's assume there are 3 agents doing combat mission SOLO and making 50m nic and 1k tokens each per hour, equal robot and extensions. Combined they make 150m/h and 3k tokens.

Here's the numbers if those 3 were doing mission in a squad together:
Reward/Difficulty increase per additional member: ~30%
Less time required per mission: -50% (I'm being generous here, because walking takes most of the time)

50*1.3*1.3*1.5 = 126.75m and 1.5k tokens per hour.


How to fix:

  • Adjust the "Reward/Difficulty increase per additional member" modifier (individually for each mission type) until each member makes about 20% more than solo to encourage group play

  • Let this modifier also affect token rewards

  • Split tokens between participants

  • nullPointer's participant bonus/reward idea

Re: Making squad missions worthwhile

So much sense!

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Re: Making squad missions worthwhile

+1
I would like to contribute one tweak though Jas:
As you say, difficulty remains set from the start, either by selection or squad size.
But what if rewards were calculated at the end, only based on who Actually participates.

This way you don't divide a fixed total, you just give the rewards to each participant.  Each player receives the same nic and tokens, modified by a bonus calculated by the number of actual participants, regardless of mission difficulty!
And as you say Jas, this should be in the order of 20% on the high end.

Also, it might make more sense if we call this: "participation bonus".
The idea is that we want to make people participate in a group activity right?  Call it what it is.
We can make this bonus independent of the difficulty of the mission.  (this will encourage folks to more accurately select their difficulty on your slider jas)


Case1:
Squad member takes mission, no one else participates.  They only get reward for a 1-member squad participation/no bonus even if it was difficulty=10.  If no one participates, no bonus! (stops the exploit thing right?) 

Case2:
Squad member takes mission of difficulty 10, 10 members participate, Each of the 10 get a 10-member squad participation bonus.

Case3:
Squad member takes mission of difficulty 10, 100 members participate, Each of the 10 get a 10-member squad participation bonus.  Key here is that they have to participate.  Even if someone tried exploiting this with alts, they would spend more time micromanaging their participation making them run the mission slower anyway (my hypothesis anyway).

Would this help?

Re: Making squad missions worthwhile

Cry after the patch...


Not Before.

Thanks.

I am Perpetuum.

5 (edited by Inda 2016-02-11 10:39:23)

Re: Making squad missions worthwhile

How many we need to point that out?

Nobody doing or incent to do misisons together. That is not encourage teamplay.

Well, in ETHOS, nobody does missions together, why? Because its not worth it. That is silly. Now, individiuall do something, if we would get rewards, we would do teamplay more, and do missions together.

                1 player       2 player          ...        10 players
NIC              x                   x*1,05                     x*1,05^10
relation         x                   x*1,05                    x*1,05^10
token            x                  x*1,05                     x*1,05^10

need to be increased if you do missions together, I dont see easiest way to incentives your playersbas, you seems like everywhere support teamplay, but the most used thing you are not.

Worst thing can happen, what happeend already LOL, with mission rewards. Then you can nerf it.

WORST thin you HAVE to leave squad at beta!

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: Making squad missions worthwhile

Can I just point out that at all levels the missions are pretty easy for one person if you fit right. The level 10 old squad missions were kind of challenging solo but for the ten man squad you were supposed to have been using they are boring childs play.

I do think a difficulty slider is the best option for this. Jas made this suggestion a while ago - it should be implmented.

I'm of the opinion that from there reward should be based on the following:

1 person 1X rats 100% reward
2 people 2X rats 150% reward
3 people 3X rats 190% reward
4 people 4X rats 220% reward
5 people 5X rats 240% reward
6 people 6X rats 250% reward
7 people 6X rats 250% reward
etc

This caps your reward at a max with 6 people and makes the level of rats that spawn actually need 6 people to do it.

Can I also suggest a reduction in the amount of ewar and an increase in the DPS. DPS is more fun gameplay, ewar is not (in PVE)

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Making squad missions worthwhile

Jasdemis analysis is missing being able to accept also lower level missions to be accomplished in the same walk.

Re: Making squad missions worthwhile

in addtion to indas post:

even if your not in an alliance, you need to leave squad to do missions, since even at corporation level. things you hve in squad are not present.

having missions automatically scale for squad was a bad decision for lots of reason.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

9 (edited by Chemist 2016-02-12 09:16:39)

Re: Making squad missions worthwhile

Tried a new mission system ... Zoom ... you're kidding? I want to do the mission without leaving the squad!

WE want THIS: http://imgur.com/Os2deMJ

We want to do the mission, but do not want to leave the squad. Zoom, it's very easy!

Terms of payment will be applied not to the main squad - to "mission squad" inside main squad.

If I want to do a mission, I must to put a "X" in front of my nickname. And to all who are "X" - is used for missions payments system. As an alternative - there put the digit. Thus, it is possible within the main squad to make several squads for different missions.

OR simply enter the second squad. This payment system will be applied to him.

Re: Making squad missions worthwhile

actually, the "participation" thingy wouldn'T be that bad, if squad system wouldn't be so broken. even those player who are NOT in squad, can participate, and they will also get their share.

But then, the later is a problem, as "unwanted" helper will lower the reward of the mission runner.
I have seen how a friendly game enviroment with ad-hoc group play turned into a griefing and very toxic solo-play enviroment in a matter of a single patch (Firefall beta) - and that just because the DEVs didn't realise the impact of their change...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Making squad missions worthwhile

Break the perma squad Zoom!

Dont hold back!

I am Perpetuum.

12 (edited by Inda 2016-02-13 09:56:21)

Re: Making squad missions worthwhile

Easiest way I see improve the game!

Why DEVs dont even answer?

Incentives teamplay for g** sa***!


Let me explain a bit more:
NOW: you have to do missions ALONE

after CHANGE: you incent to do missions TOGETHER with your team

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: Making squad missions worthwhile

When Indiana is mad, you know you messed up.

I am Perpetuum.

Re: Making squad missions worthwhile

Making squad missions worthwhile.
Should be high priority.

Give your players some reasons to play together.
Make it fun, challenging, rewarding and more convenient (split the rewards, tokens as well).

EP patch bring more zombies afk mining online, but they wont stay when they'll release there is nothing interesting to do after they grind enough to use whatever bot they wanted.

PvP is inactive because there is not enough veterans, and PvE sucks because of that broken squad thing.

Difficulty slider?

I speak broken English.

Re: Making squad missions worthwhile

HOLY HELL!!!

This is still not adressed?

HIGHEST PRIORITY!!!

And make them playable in "TEAMS" (squad)

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: Making squad missions worthwhile

Never going to happen.

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
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Re: Making squad missions worthwhile

I assume you still expect the extensions to be factored in to the rewards.  smile

-Ensi