Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

Martha Stuart wrote:
BandwagonX9000 wrote:
Martha Stuart wrote:

"Contrary to how everyone calls this "duping", there wasn't a moment when anyone could gain more than they had before they got destroyed. The anomaly consisted of them simply getting back their robots with everything they had on them. More importantly, when this happened, they didn't drop a loot container. (DEV Zoom)"

Wow, apparently the ability to read is not a prerequisite for entrance into CIR.  Good to know.

As I said in a previous post, what is the difference between duping 9 kains and then undocking 9 times and getting them blown up, and duping a kain and getting it blown up 9 times? There is no difference. You are basically arguing that duping is fine as long as theres a point in time where you have the same physical assets as when you started.

No, what i am saying is the DEV's have clearly stated that it WAS NOT DUPING.  I didn't make this up.  I didn't "Spin" this.  I just quoted word for word what the devs have clearly stated.  So if you disagree, by all means argue with them.  My point is that it has been clearly stated by "the powers that be" that what happened was not duping.

Ok here is the issue ill make it simple for you.

You used False or "Ghost" Bots that were not supposed to be in existence. They were then used to destroy REAL assets.

You created/used to your benefit FALSE Bots/Modules they were copy's of the original thus a duplicate (Duped) item.

Y U NO ENGRISH.

Undefeated 2013
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Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

They weren't a duplicate, they are the SAME bots and fittings

Y U NO UNDERSTAND

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

Line, during duplication BOTH BOTS ARE THE SAME, WITH SAME FITTINGS.

Y U USE CAPSLOCK?!

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

the SAME BOTS, with the SAME FITTINGS, that somehow MANAGED TO DIE 9 TIMES IN A ROW AND STILL RESPAWN.

We playing Call of Duty here or a sandbox?

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Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

Usually when you dupe things, you got an original and a duplicate, that's the difference. And he got just original each time, that's respawn. Their assets weren't increased due to this bug.

Y U NO SEE A DIFFERENZ

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

56 (edited by Goffer 2012-07-03 07:31:42)

Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

Actually it is no duplication on first glance as you have no assets more afterwards, but beeing able to Pvp without fear of loss and use this in an intrusion is for me something that clearly should have consequences.

If nothing else, you forced the defend squad to be active in full numbers for long time and prevented them to gain your stuff with which you are attacking.
For one time this might have been a fun experience for both sides, as defending SAP is often booooring. But in the end you forced the defender to activly defend for long time with full force, when otherwise it would be ususally the case that you wouldn't have come second time after loosing first wave which would have allowed the defenders to get some kernels or similar while defending SAP.

The major bad effect of M2S duping was that one side could PvP without fear to loose anything, while the other side cared for their losses. This had a more psychological consequence than material and leed to a lot good player leaving the game as feeling it would bring them nothing to pay any further the supscription and be active member of community.

If you got a consense with AIG in before the attack, to have a lot of fun on both sides, than no harm is done in this special case, but in general such actions leave marks in game population and terefore should have consequences.

Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

You have a kain with internal id 83847. You discover how to make N copies of said kain. You now have N kains in your hangar when you shouldn't, all with the same id.

You have a kain with internal id 83847. You discover how to make N copies of said kain. You now have N kains in your hangar when you shouldn't, all with a different id.

Both are duping no matter the technicalities. It does not matter if N is 1 or 9000. If you can make a potion out of nowhere that appears when another is used, even if its a copy of the same instance of the potion, its still duping.

Abusing the bug repeatedly because "it was going to be fixed anyway" or "because it was fun" is bad, and even worse when you do it against people who aren't abusing said bug, or abused it to test the turret defenses for free, and that you promoted such behaviour rather than staying docked. I guess we don't need that EULA anyway.

So, what do you think would have happened on monday morning if it had been CIR doing this?

Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

Goffer wrote:

Actually it is no duplication on first glance as you have no assets more afterwards, but beeing able to Pvp without fear of loss and use this in an intrusion is for me something that clearly should have consequences.

[...]

The major bad effect of M2S duping was that one side could PvP without fear to loose anything, while the other side cared for their losses. This had a more psychological consequence than material and leed to a lot good player leaving the game as feeling it would bring them nothing to pay any further the supscription and be active member of community.

So the same thing then? Anyway, you dupe stuff to use it, not to grow dust in your hangar. You dupe 9 kains to undock them and eventually lose them. It is no different to do that than to dupe a kain, lose it, dupe another, lose it. You dupe stuff to consume it, otherwise there would be no purpose in duping. Consuming it all at once or in small steps is the same thing. Having something when you should not have it.

Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

BandwagonX9000 wrote:

You have a kain with internal id 83847. You discover how to make N copies of said kain. You now have N kains in your hangar when you shouldn't, all with the same id.

You have a kain with internal id 83847. You discover how to make N copies of said kain. You now have N kains in your hangar when you shouldn't, all with a different id.

Both are duping no matter the technicalities. It does not matter if N is 1 or 9000. If you can make a potion out of nowhere that appears when another is used, even if its a copy of the same instance of the potion, its still duping.

Abusing the bug repeatedly because "it was going to be fixed anyway" or "because it was fun" is bad, and even worse when you do it against people who aren't abusing said bug, or abused it to test the turret defenses for free, and that you promoted such behaviour rather than staying docked. I guess we don't need that EULA anyway.

So, what do you think would have happened on monday morning if it had been CIR doing this?

You can't create N kains in your hangar with that bug cuz it's NOT copying bots, it's don't let your current one die. In your example, there will be always 1 of kain with id 83847.

Also, AIC and BOS got experienced and used the same bug. Why noone here calls them dupers, cheaters and no demands on ban them?

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

DEV Zoom wrote:

Contrary to how everyone calls this "duping", there wasn't a moment when anyone could gain more than they had before they got destroyed. The anomaly consisted of them simply getting back their robots with everything they had on them. More importantly, when this happened, they didn't drop a loot container..

Then when someone builds a farming bot it'll be fine and classified as a "bug" because after whatever you built with what you macro killed/mined blows up you are left with the same assets? Ok then.


Only in perpetuum can people engage in repeated exploiting in complete disregard of the eula and can a dev come and call it a "bug".

Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

Line wrote:

You can't create N kains in your hangar with that bug cuz it's NOT copying bots, it's don't let your current one die. In your example, there will be always 1 of kain with id 83847.

How many should there be? 0. How many do you have? 1.

Line wrote:

Also, AIC and BOS got experienced and used the same bug. Why noone here calls them dupers, cheaters and no demands on ban them?

In no moment I have mentioned corp names. And if you can't make up the difference between experiencing and abusing after looking at the killboard and reading the general chat logs, well... I don't give a damn about corps, anyone who has abused of this thing should get a negative wallet for each bot that they blew up and a nice swift kick for 30 days at a minimum.

62 (edited by Line 2012-07-03 07:48:32)

Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

BandwagonX9000 wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

Contrary to how everyone calls this "duping", there wasn't a moment when anyone could gain more than they had before they got destroyed. The anomaly consisted of them simply getting back their robots with everything they had on them. More importantly, when this happened, they didn't drop a loot container..

Then when someone builds a farming bot it'll be fine and classified as a "bug" because after whatever you built with what you macro killed/mined blows up you are left with the same assets? Ok then.


Only in perpetuum can people engage in repeated exploiting in complete disregard of the eula and can a dev come and call it a "bug".

There is always an "Exit" button for such cases. But vack to the question - why do you hate that newly formed alliance of AIC and BOS that you want them be banned?

UPD: and don't tell me you don't mention a corp name cuz you're pestering about "8-9 times" all the time.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

Line it's still duplicating the same bot you just lost.  I call it dupping, exploiting, abuse of game mechanics, STILL clear violation of the EULA.

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Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

ESPECIALLY when they KNEW a day in advance about the bug and its effects.

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Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

Line wrote:

Usually when you dupe things, you got an original and a duplicate, that's the difference. And he got just original each time, that's respawn. Their assets weren't increased due to this bug.

Y U NO SEE A DIFFERENZ

Thats called replicating, if you always have a perfect copy of something its called a duplicate.  FYI, Line.  I know English is not your first language so I won't throw you down the well this time =P

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Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

This bug can't be replicated manually so there is nothing to do with they KNEW. Also you can't choose which bot it will be accepted cuz it's random so there was no prepared action for sure. They stated that they contacted opposite side immediately and told about that, and opposite side confirmed that they have the same effect, and organised a fight for fun - BOTH sides stated that they got and used this bug so there is prolly was no advantage and it can't be called an actual exploit by terms of EULA and DEVs confirmed that. So why are you keep arguing?

@your base destruction - as it has been stated there, base got destroyed before that bug was applied so no "duplicated"stuff was used. Then your forces came and shot the attackers - thats when the bug was applied but still in uncontrolled way - so no exploits here and you can't really expect any building reimbursement.

And yes, no bans can be actually applied here.

I do understand that you may be upset of AC soft politics, but think about next thing - Syndic got used account sharing to get resource and force advantage (proven by DEVS and can't be argued) but they however didn't wiped or decimated CIR assets gotten by that sharing, just temporarily banned Syndic. So if you keep insisting that AC politics should be harder for EULA breaking, should we also expect CIR assets be wiped or decimated as obtained in a EULA-breaking manner?

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

67 (edited by Weedy 2012-07-03 13:41:05)

Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

Line wrote:

This bug can't be replicated manually so there is nothing to do with they KNEW. Also you can't choose which bot it will be accepted cuz it's random so there was no prepared action for sure. They stated that they contacted opposite side immediately and told about that, and opposite side confirmed that they have the same effect, and organised a fight for fun - BOTH sides stated that they got and used this bug so there is prolly was no advantage and it can't be called an actual exploit by terms of EULA and DEVs confirmed that. So why are you keep arguing?

@your base destruction - as it has been stated there, base got destroyed before that bug was applied so no "duplicated"stuff was used. Then your forces came and shot the attackers - thats when the bug was applied but still in uncontrolled way - so no exploits here and you can't really expect any building reimbursement.

And yes, no bans can be actually applied here.

I do understand that you may be upset of AC soft politics, but think about next thing - Syndic got used account sharing to get resource and force advantage (proven by DEVS and can't be argued) but they however didn't wiped or decimated CIR assets gotten by that sharing, just temporarily banned Syndic. So if you keep insisting that AC politics should be harder for EULA breaking, should we also expect CIR assets be wiped or decimated as obtained in a EULA-breaking manner?

http://cs4497.userapi.com/u2046337/-5/x_35087c77.jpg

CIR comes and kill 5 DoY Riveler Mk2 miners (in the brightest colors let's imagine you have any of those) that have planned a mining op for 2 months. You mined with them for 5 hours, you have tons of stuff mined in your cans, about to start moving it out. Then big bad Inertia and sour Lemon come and destroy all your 5 miners, all your mining disappears into thin air. You still though manage to call Mark Zima and Lupus to kill your attackers in MK2s and full T4+, but hey! 0 loot. They lost nothing, you lost *** of time and production and money and modules and mined materials and resources. BUT HEY THEY DIDN'T KNOW THIS BUG WOULD HAPPEN, HELLO.

You do butthurt like all your recent forum posts, or you go on and defend your own attackers?

PS: actually thought you for a decent guy before Line, seriously, but with all that poor quality posting you have done in the last days hmm sometimes it's better just not to go too deep into things man.

I believe pvp could be very exciting and the game has what it takes. But this is game is ruined and we all know  by who, it´s by corps like CiR, -77- and PHM. - by Fu ManChu

Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

Well apparently they didnt think it. Was severe enough to wipe their assets.   smile  However no magical equipment appeared from thin air.  Still had to be mined, refined and produced.  And since only the Syndic account got banned it is to be assumed that Syndics account was shared which is not a miner....  So the morale of the story is don't let your wife log on your account from a different pc, or play from q hotel while traveling or don't play while visiting a  friend in the states or have a dynamic IP or switch ISPs or renew your IP while playing or change firewall settings, or let your room  mate borrow your laptop to Google something or have a family member check out the game while they are over or buy timecodes for a friend who is financial unstable.  Remember those are all clear violations to the account sharing EULA.

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
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Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

But hey styx had amazing production skills Amirite?

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
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Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

Weedy wrote:
Line wrote:

This bug can't be replicated manually so there is nothing to do with they KNEW. Also you can't choose which bot it will be accepted cuz it's random so there was no prepared action for sure. They stated that they contacted opposite side immediately and told about that, and opposite side confirmed that they have the same effect, and organised a fight for fun - BOTH sides stated that they got and used this bug so there is prolly was no advantage and it can't be called an actual exploit by terms of EULA and DEVs confirmed that. So why are you keep arguing?

@your base destruction - as it has been stated there, base got destroyed before that bug was applied so no "duplicated"stuff was used. Then your forces came and shot the attackers - thats when the bug was applied but still in uncontrolled way - so no exploits here and you can't really expect any building reimbursement.

And yes, no bans can be actually applied here.

I do understand that you may be upset of AC soft politics, but think about next thing - Syndic got used account sharing to get resource and force advantage (proven by DEVS and can't be argued) but they however didn't wiped or decimated CIR assets gotten by that sharing, just temporarily banned Syndic. So if you keep insisting that AC politics should be harder for EULA breaking, should we also expect CIR assets be wiped or decimated as obtained in a EULA-breaking manner?

http://cs4497.userapi.com/u2046337/-5/x_35087c77.jpg

CIR comes and kill 5 DoY Riveler Mk2 miners (in the brightest colors let's imagine you have any of those) that have planned a mining op for 2 months. You mined with them for 5 hours, you have tons of stuff mined in your cans, about to start moving it out. Then big bad Inertia and sour Lemon come and destroy all your 5 miners, all your mining disappears into thin air. You still though manage to call Mark Zima and Lupus to kill your attackers in MK2s and full T4+, but hey! 0 loot. They lost nothing, you lost *** of time and production and money and modules and mined materials and resources. BUT HEY THEY DIDN'T KNOW THIS BUG WOULD HAPPEN, HELLO.

You do butthurt like all your recent forum posts, or you go on and defend your own attackers?

PS: actually thought you for a decent guy before Line, seriously, but with all that poor quality posting you have done in the last days hmm sometimes it's better just not to go too deep into things man.

That big bad Inertia and sour Lemon can't even be sure if they will get that bug respawn. Thats thing #1.
Some of those DoY Riveler Mk2 can be respawned aswell cuz they can't control that random bug. Thats thing #2.
Mighty Mark Zima can go to forums and start blaming CIR in cheating and exploits and demand to ban them but no word about DoY regardless they were stated they were respawned aswell - thats thing #3.

Which part of this example isn't acceptable to you personally, Weedy?

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

Ville wrote:

But hey styx had amazing production skills Amirite?

And got his deserved punishment in full hard manner, yes.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

Line wrote:

=
That big bad Inertia and sour Lemon can't even be sure if they will get that bug respawn. Thats thing #1.
Some of those DoY Riveler Mk2 can be respawned aswell cuz they can't control that random bug. Thats thing #2.
Mighty Mark Zima can go to forums and start blaming CIR in cheating and exploits and demand to ban them but no word about DoY regardless they were stated they were respawned aswell - thats thing #3.

Which part of this example isn't acceptable to you personally, Weedy?

It's not for the fact they can or cannot be sure. It's that you risked everything and lost time/stuff/structures/bots/materials/anything that cannot be restored, while opponents risked nothing and gained A LOT more than they could with completely no losses. And fun on top of that. And you gained nothing.

So, you are acting a fool, or you are not really getting it?

I believe pvp could be very exciting and the game has what it takes. But this is game is ruined and we all know  by who, it´s by corps like CiR, -77- and PHM. - by Fu ManChu

Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

Line......  STC even admitted he shadowphile respawned on terrain.  Which means he never lost the same Seth that  was killed twice!  Got respawned a third time!

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
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Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

I specifically showed the kill mails that proved it!

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
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75 (edited by Line 2012-07-03 14:17:38)

Re: Information on the robot death bug (2012-07-02)

CIR didn't died in that action. How can you be sure you wasn't affected by that bug? Cuz probably you was risking nothing too.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086