101

Re: What do you expect from PvE in a Sandboxgame

Sorry Annihilator, I wasn't looking for such a reaction.

You're right, the mining game is boring, and so is npc farming. The game is pretty one-dimensional, and that means it gets old quickly.

If you actually view the world with the attitude that I must be afraid of combat simply because I would prefer other things, then what a frustrated young man you must be!

It is clear that when you say "out of reach," you mean that you do not comprehend the direction I would prefer to see the game follow. I'm sorry that makes you angry.

Just for the sake of clarity: what you call an "attitude" is disappointment that the game appears to be going in the direction that EVE went. A "sandbox" should have a rich and complex universe- there should be multiple paths to follow- combat, economic, political, research, industry, etc. There's no reason Perpetuum couldn't have that.

This game has always suffered from comparison to EVE; unfortunately, while the developers could have followed many distinctive directions, it appears that they are rushing to make a clone. EVE is a game for half-wits with spreadsheets; it is very one-dimensional. I'm disappointed that Perpetuum is going in the same direction, I had hopes that it could be more.

All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful - Kohelet Rabbah 7:16

"My transaction log shows all my NIC was from selling kernals.  All of it."
"Savin's outrage tears are the best tears." - Anonymous ***

Re: What do you expect from PvE in a Sandboxgame

Am bit confused with this part..

This is only a very first step in our plan to bring a whole bunch of new content to the game for more stuff to do "between PvP sessions".

"Whole bunch of new content" ... sounds good

but..

"between PvP sessions" ... makes PvE sound like it is designed to be something we just halfheartedly do while waiting for the next exciting PvP session.

103

Re: What do you expect from PvE in a Sandboxgame

Petteri Petraaja wrote:

"Whole bunch of new content" ... sounds good

but..

"between PvP sessions" ... makes PvE sound like it is designed to be something we just halfheartedly do while waiting for the next exciting PvP session.

Yes, I take this as an indication of where the game is headed. It's disappointing news as far as I'm concerned- however, if you can't get your fill of combat, then it's good news for you. hmm

All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful - Kohelet Rabbah 7:16

"My transaction log shows all my NIC was from selling kernals.  All of it."
"Savin's outrage tears are the best tears." - Anonymous ***

104

Re: What do you expect from PvE in a Sandboxgame

Snowstyle wrote:

I expect that at any moment while I am PvEing another player can come and kill me no matter where I am.

I expect 100% opposite. I can play PvE mission solo or with friends and no griefers, PKillers or other harrasers can spoil our fun from the game.

You got all beta islands for PvP. Here we speak about PvE improvements of the game.

Re: What do you expect from PvE in a Sandboxgame

Dizi wrote:
Snowstyle wrote:

I expect that at any moment while I am PvEing another player can come and kill me no matter where I am.

I expect 100% opposite. I can play PvE mission solo or with friends and no griefers, PKillers or other harrasers can spoil our fun from the game.

You got all beta islands for PvP. Here we speak about PvE improvements of the game.


Exactly. If I wanted PvP, I'd be over on the betas. Since I'm not, I obviously don't.  If the object of this exercise(and the years worth of hard, detailed work that was involved in making it run, and run in such a stable fashion) is to make money, then running off the majority of ones customers doesn't make good business sense.

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

106

Re: What do you expect from PvE in a Sandboxgame

Once again, Wraithbane, you write with a great deal of sense.

I'm not so sure that I agree it's poor business sense, though. Avatar may be too small to handle a complex game- it may be easier and more profitable to keep things small by focusing on one element.

Nevertheless, I'm probably in the minority, but I think that "more combat" is a poor solution to perceived problems. This game shows a lot of potential for depth and complexity, so the choice to cater to a specific type of player is doubly disappointing.

All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful - Kohelet Rabbah 7:16

"My transaction log shows all my NIC was from selling kernals.  All of it."
"Savin's outrage tears are the best tears." - Anonymous ***

Re: What do you expect from PvE in a Sandboxgame

suggestions?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

108

Re: What do you expect from PvE in a Sandboxgame

Depends on where you want to go, and which market you want to go after.

It also depends on the 'problem' you're trying to fix.

This issue is very similar to the discussion about adding PvP to alpha. In both cases, appealing to a specific group introduces changes that force a different group of players to adapt or get out- and make no mistake, the majority will get out.

If PvE is boring or repetitive, more combat is a legitimate option, but it appeals to the 'adrenaline junkie' crowd and bored miners, and pushes away the people who don't want to look over their shoulder all the time.

I don't think anyone will have a problem with more NPCs; the problems occur when you put them in the wrong place. I think there should be several areas where random, roaming NPCs spawn, and I think that certain rare resources should only be found in those areas- there should be a challenge involved in collecting the really good stuff, right?

All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful - Kohelet Rabbah 7:16

"My transaction log shows all my NIC was from selling kernals.  All of it."
"Savin's outrage tears are the best tears." - Anonymous ***

Re: What do you expect from PvE in a Sandboxgame

PVE as something to do in between sounds bad. PVP just as sports the same.

Adding more, or just varied PVE content is a fail attempt at trying to add density to the game. AI will always be an AI. A number grind will always be a number grind.

I still see the only possibility to add complexity to the game by implementing a political system that is being influenced by PVE factions and PVP type factions.

This way the need to do something will not always be farm this and that or kill this and that - but - ok better not kill these and do not farm thiese bots.

The consequences of such a system can influence corp structures and make certain roles as in small corps or even single players interesting who act as transition between factions.

I just added a trade embargo to my system in the other thread, that disables trading between reds and greens, but to same colors and yellow only.

110 (edited by Deadmeet 2011-02-01 09:41:16)

Re: What do you expect from PvE in a Sandboxgame

To make a PvE interesting in a game, you have to make things EPIC for players. Here is a recipe to make PvE Epic :

  • Create some nice graphical complex/dungeon. It's far more exciting to enter a big dungeon and to discover it with friends than kill 10 mobs in the current map. Generally players needs a progression feeling during a mission (a little more deep that 4 on 10 mobs killed....)

  • Have nice sounds. Oh, it's already the case, you can check that tick smile

  • Create random content. It's boring to do the same mission. Add a lot of missions to make people never need to farm one.

  • Make PvE more important to the game, for example, missions with special mobs that give you unique kernel, or unique item...

Sorry to compare the game with EvE again, but I think they did an incredible things with complex system, as the game is inspired by EvE, I think some good ideas can be taken here.

For example :

  • Create hidden mission scanning system (this reinforce the feeling to find something unique for players, really appreciated)

  • After a successful scan of an hidden mission, you could discover a special teleport that would bring you on a small PVE island. On that island, you could modelize all the big dungeon you want, they are not integrated with the regular map and so, you have less problems

  • Try to code some things random during the mission (not always the same mobs) add a boss in the end, and add some special content you can only have making these PvE raid (maybe good mining spot, unique kernel or loot etc...

It sounds like complex system in EvE ? Yes, because they had an incredible idea to create it, and this game is clearly inspired by EvE, so this is one of the ideas you could take and improve at the same time. On the "earth" you have the possibility to modelize incredible complex to explore in team, could be really fun. If you make a probing system to find the teleport that bring to these plex and you put them on very small dedicated island, it could be not that hard to implement.

Re: What do you expect from PvE in a Sandboxgame

A lot has been said, still I would like to voice my opinion :-)

In my opinion PvE is at least as important as PvP. You need to be able to do something an always have a way to progress no matter if you have a hundred people at your disposal or not. That means for example that there need to be missions and farming areas where you have progress, fun and also risk of loosing stuff.

What I personally miss or dislike:
- PvE is either a joke or so frustrating you could immediatly cancel the subscription
Compare Level 3 kill missions which are quite easy (since you can outmaneuver mobs and avoid Ewar mostly) with for example the spawn close to alpha in a canyon where you aint much range (hills, narrow) and get easily demobed by 3 mobs plus ecmed all the time.

- Too much EWAR on NPC side. ECM in combination with Demob kills you to easily and is almost found in any spawn.

- Bigger bots are useless in PvE since you hit nothing. Ok, I got precision firing only at 5, but since 10 is the maximum, there won't be THAT much of a difference, not to mention I only talk about Mech vs. Assault or vs. Light. Don't want to even think of Heavy vs. Assault or Light. I understand the need to do this in PvP, but it should not be that bad in PvE. Otherwise you are running around in your mech on your way to some sort of PvP or Farming spot and get killed without a chance by some lowbob npc spawn. Maybe distinguish between PvP and PvE when calculating hit chance/dmg.

- Some sort of Open Quests like in Warhammer Online. Could be on beta islands as well. Makes more Open PVP happen and not just blobwarfare on some intrusion event.

- Benefits of doing PvP and Benefits of doing PvP. Could be different, could be same. Something like buying special items from NPC Corp if reputation is high or trading some looted token from PvP for stuff at your NPC Corp.

- I could also think of some PvE Rewards from Missions being usefull for corporations like items which give productionbonus or only gainable ressources through missions. That way corp squads would do more missions on beta islands which in turn makes more open pvp possible.



- Some sort of alliance system that allows you to form alliances that are shown ingame and can set standings like corps can.

- Corp warfare that allows corps to shoot each other on alpha islands. This would make Open Quests and Missions on alpha islands much more interesting :-)


All in all I like the game, the mechanics and the PvP stuff. But I am afraid any kind of MMORPG needs some sort of Single Player possibilities to survive in the long run. Just look at World of Warcraft that has a lot of Single Player (repeatable quests, rewards) or few players (5 Man instance) content. I know it is different a lot, but it actually does bring more subscriptions which makes development possible.

Re: What do you expect from PvE in a Sandboxgame

- Adding navigation mission (going from one point to another) in a timed standard robot or not (?) : reward and best ranking of the participants of the week.

- Race of robots with draw spells of registered participants. The winner wears on his robot special decoration or a flag for the week.

- Meteor shower with a warning siren for general protection. Navigation and search special items had crashed on the planet.

Re: What do you expect from PvE in a Sandboxgame

Another thing that could be done is a mission creator integrated to the game. This is a sandbox game, the main guideline of that kind of game is to make is to let players do what they want in specified universe. This is a success for the market, but not for PvE at the moment.

If players could create missions, it would add a new level of sandbox to the game. The game would see his number of mission increase quickly and this would be far more exciting for players to make mission for another player than make mission for NPCs. In addition, it could render service to players that could "hire" others players to do something for them.

Re: What do you expect from PvE in a Sandboxgame

Petteri Petraaja wrote:

Am bit confused with this part..

This is only a very first step in our plan to bring a whole bunch of new content to the game for more stuff to do "between PvP sessions".

"Whole bunch of new content" ... sounds good

but..

"between PvP sessions" ... makes PvE sound like it is designed to be something we just halfheartedly do while waiting for the next exciting PvP session.


That does seem to be their perspective, doesn't it? PvE seems to be regarded as some type of "necessary evil", that they wish to spend the least amount of time possible on.  Its apparently thought of as some type of "filler" for between rounds of thrilling and dynamic PvP combat...<Sorry I was channeling marketing there for a moment... ^^).  Which is fine, if thats where they want the game to go. Its their game after all <shrug>. But the modern market pays little premium to pure PvP games, and games that focus on that end up niche, at best.

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

115 (edited by Annihilator 2011-02-05 20:39:54)

Re: What do you expect from PvE in a Sandboxgame

your whining get repetitive.

General Chat; 2212-02-05 wrote:

[02:55:19] <DEV Alf> what i want to implement most is the robot partial damage, leg, head etc, but it will be a huuuuuge rework of the game
[02:55:34] <DEV Alf> for the next we focus on more pve

... its still confusing that the Server is 201 Years ahead wink

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: What do you expect from PvE in a Sandboxgame

I like the steps they're taking:

they complete the game with several aspects on the current technical scale to sort of give the game a more rounded feel.

Things that are possible are new additions and variations on the current systems. Its right and logic that the game is completed aspect wise on the current level now.

Im sure afterwards theyll start extending the basis - so that all those nice ideas and their own of course can be taken into consideration again.

And these changes have to be done step wise starting from the lowest layer.

But overall - i understand the point of view of lonewolves - and surely it isnt easy. You should have seen what those romaing npc gangs and observers did on beta yesterday - it was actually great becasue it was kind of unpredictable and loosend the static atmosphere.

Re: What do you expect from PvE in a Sandboxgame

Redline wrote:

I like the steps they're taking:

they complete the game with several aspects on the current technical scale to sort of give the game a more rounded feel.

Things that are possible are new additions and variations on the current systems. Its right and logic that the game is completed aspect wise on the current level now.

Im sure afterwards theyll start extending the basis - so that all those nice ideas and their own of course can be taken into consideration again.

And these changes have to be done step wise starting from the lowest layer.

But overall - i understand the point of view of lonewolves - and surely it isnt easy. You should have seen what those romaing npc gangs and observers did on beta yesterday - it was actually great becasue it was kind of unpredictable and loosend the static atmosphere.

Well, I'm happy that you are enjoying yourself Red. ^^  From what I'm hearing those roaming packs of super bots are a serious PITA.  Some people have been ambushed as they came out, from what I've read.  As for the direction the game is headed, its becoming obvious that its not really a game I'm going to be in long term, mores the pity.
For the Diasuka set, no you can't have my stuff... ^^

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

118

Re: What do you expect from PvE in a Sandboxgame

I made my idea about what the DEVs can do for PVE:

here is the picture for:
http://kepfeltoltes.hu/120222/Perpetuum … es.hu_.png

I thinking about something what is bit dinamyc but a bit more interesting than existing missions and can be nearly automatic.

So my idea is DEV s should put Syndicaty Supply Stash (similiar with outposts) into Alpha Islands, and then make that stations alive.
Sometimes NPC -s will attack this station and the players can defense, if the NPC team reach the station the station lose stability (can be something similiar than beta outpost's now) when stability is reach the 50 % the station had "destroyed" after that some restrictions take effect the station.

Before destoyed, you can dock to station, and do some missions for Syndicate make some Arkhes, faction ammos, proximity probes, wall units ... so on and then the Syndicate pay you for that.
Others can hauling these supllys to the stations for also NIC and other rewards.
After destoyed status, these things cant reachable just defense the station and build it up again.
The building up need materials near the station somewhere and maybe can be some module for this Stations for the makers/manufacturers.

So this idea can cover all of gamestyle in alpha

for battle caracters: they can defense the stations sometimes a day (can be change this details: how many, what NPC-s) good rewards standind more NIC

for builders/makers: they can make things for Syndicate with good rewards/standings when station not destroyed, after when got destoyed they can make things for build up again the station

for haulers: they can hauling things to Outpost's/Terminal's from this station before not destroyed after bring some materials for rebuild

I like this, because bit more dinamy bit more interesting and make Snydicate a bit more alive for agents.


I would like ask the contras/pros from you.

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD