Topic: Robot Speed

Heavys:

i can currently fit a heavy with 3 plates 1 lwf and 1 medium armor repair and it go 90.  With nexus it goes 100+

The base speed of a Seth is 88.3 kph I suggest cutting this in half. To 44.1 kph.  Heavys shouldn't be used in roams.  We shouldn't be cruising around everywhere in the largest tanky bots in game. 

Heavys imo should be used in two situations:
1.  Base defense
2.  Attacking an outpost you really want.

Slowing down heavies slows power projection by forcing attackers to take time to logistical move fleets.  This means pre timer form ups. 
Slowing down heavies help new corporations, if you constantly have to fight heavies in lights and assaults your constantly moving.

Mechs:

These are kind of on the money as is but the 10 kph reduction would mean they would be in line with the medium between assaults and lights.

Assaults/lights:

-10 kph is fine

Armor plates need a hair more mass.  If I Stack armor plates I should feel it.  Not, oh 5kphs no problem!

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Re: Robot Speed

How this could be fixed, would be to speed everything else, Up.

Reasoning behind this would be to keep the flow of the game alive and faster pace, rather then a return to slower paced battles.

Or a slight nerf, and a slight buff might be the good middle ground.

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3 (edited by Jita 2015-07-27 09:43:59)

Re: Robot Speed

Ville wrote:

Heavys:

i can currently fit a heavy with 3 plates 1 lwf and 1 medium armor repair and it go 90.  With nexus it goes 100+

The base speed of a Seth is 88.3 kph I suggest cutting this in half. To 44.1 kph.  Heavys shouldn't be used in roams.  We shouldn't be cruising around everywhere in the largest tanky bots in game. 

Heavys imo should be used in two situations:
1.  Base defense
2.  Attacking an outpost you really want.

Slowing down heavies slows power projection by forcing attackers to take time to logistical move fleets.  This means pre timer form ups. 
Slowing down heavies help new corporations, if you constantly have to fight heavies in lights and assaults your constantly moving.

Mechs:

These are kind of on the money as is but the 10 kph reduction would mean they would be in line with the medium between assaults and lights.

Assaults/lights:

-10 kph is fine

Armor plates need a hair more mass.  If I Stack armor plates I should feel it.  Not, oh 5kphs no problem!

I think part of the problem is demobs and how powerful they are. Your pretty much required to double plate in combat even with a lwf.

In conjunction with this could we up demob energy cost to around half of a detectors and add a modifier in demob energy cost that looks at your surface size vs what your demobbing? So if your surface size is four vs a target of twelve it should cost three times the energy?

This would make light ewar / castel demobs less tanky making speed fits more viable.

I'd like to see a return to the kitey range fit mechs defeating the slow gank fit heavies.

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4 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2015-07-27 09:48:52)

Re: Robot Speed

Well bots as is already move REALLY fast lol.

Why not just increase the mass of Med weapons / Med armour plates & other Med modules?

I know its a bit of a round a bout way to change speeds but it is an option.

I agree with Jitas last sentence about returning to kiting being a viable tactic again

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Re: Robot Speed

Merkle wrote:

How this could be fixed, would be to speed everything else, Up.

Reasoning behind this would be to keep the flow of the game alive and faster pace, rather then a return to slower paced battles.

Or a slight nerf, and a slight buff might be the good middle ground.

Yes this.

Re: Robot Speed

-1
more HM for pvp

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Re: Robot Speed

Perpetuum wrote:

How this could be fixed, would be to speed everything else, Up.

Reasoning behind this would be to keep the flow of the game alive and faster pace, rather then a return to slower paced battles.

Or a slight nerf, and a slight buff might be the good middle ground.

-1

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

8 (edited by Inda 2015-07-27 16:49:22)

Re: Robot Speed

So:

Light + Light ew:  stay as is now
Assaults:             -10 kph
Mechs:                -20kph
Heavy mechs:      -36kph

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: Robot Speed

You can't even catch people now.  Speeding everything up more just adds to the power projection problem even more!

And with "balancing" changes now the current FOTM is slap LWF + 4 plates and march in the middle of the group and take out as many as possible with explosion damage.  There's not strategy to that. 

I can fit a heavy to be as fast as an assault bot that even has a modest tank.  Let that sink in..

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Re: Robot Speed

http://www.perp-kill.net/related/264889  I walked a heavy mech from davisbay to the middle of an island and basically stood on top of people shooting them in the face.  And I was faster than them...

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Re: Robot Speed

The increase in speed should have been percentage based, not slapping the same number to all classes.

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Re: Robot Speed

I feel like if you want to bring the biggest platform in game it should take you more time.  I see roam groups with heavy mk2s all the time and that's not healthy to new players or smaller factions trying to live somewhere since they will be dealing with the tankest and largest dps group

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Re: Robot Speed

Ville wrote:

I feel like if you want to bring the biggest platform in game it should take you more time.  I see roam groups with heavy mk2s all the time and that's not healthy to new players or smaller factions trying to live somewhere since they will be dealing with the tankest and largest dps group

lol
a decrease in income on the alpha Islands: beginners will not go on PVP, do not worry for them
there is no problem, do not inflate the bubble

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Re: Robot Speed

Ville wrote:

I feel like if you want to bring the biggest platform in game it should take you more time.  I see roam groups with heavy mk2s all the time and that's not healthy to new players or smaller factions trying to live somewhere since they will be dealing with the tankest and largest dps group

I dont think it helps that a gank assault does about an eight of a gank heavy dps wise

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Re: Robot Speed

^ the balance is around "most slots available". So much terribleness.

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Re: Robot Speed

Hello, It's me... an idea that never came to bear fruit..

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Re: Robot Speed

Dev zoom doesn't love you

Re: Robot Speed

Why don't we make it season-based?

Winter: every bot halves it's speed
Spring: spark teleports are enabled
Summer: every not gets speed twiced
Autumn: spark teleports are disabled

Seriously, stop asking for things changed and then changed back. Instead, offer some new solution

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Re: Robot Speed

heavy mechs should not be out running assault bots.

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Re: Robot Speed

Ville wrote:

heavy mechs should not be out running assault bots.

Yep

Re: Robot Speed

Ville wrote:

heavy mechs should not be out running assault bots.

Assault bots in what fit? If you want unstopable, unbemobable 3x plated assaults running away from heavy mechs, ignoring light tacklers and killing mechs - hell no.

All that demobs/ demob resists *** should be balanced first.

An year or two before I've offered an idea that your cargo load decreases your speed up to 25% (more you carry, slower you go) - maybe it's time for it now?

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Re: Robot Speed

Line wrote:
Ville wrote:

heavy mechs should not be out running assault bots.

Assault bots in what fit? If you want unstopable, unbemobable 3x plated assaults running away from heavy mechs, ignoring light tacklers and killing mechs - hell no.

All that demobs/ demob resists *** should be balanced first.

An year or two before I've offered an idea that your cargo load decreases your speed up to 25% (more you carry, slower you go) - maybe it's time for it now?

meh, cargo speed influence is a VERY BAD idea. believe me, we already had that in beta.

after 5 years, the major balancing issue is not solved.
small bots got 2-3 legslots, 2-3 headslots, a base locking range below small weapon range, a hitsize insignificant different from medium weapons dispersion, and a speed advantage of only a few kph compared to the slowest heavy

to be able to get close to anything bigger, they need to fit
1. a sensor amp
2. a lwf

because of that, the smallest bots are kinda excluded by default from their role as combat DPS, and they are reduced to scouts, nexus carrier and/or EWAR. due to all other attributes, that means castel, and castel mk2 is the only valid light you see beeing used.

other flaws:

  • light ewars - trojars can't do anything better then a castel, since their only role was neuting, but small neuts and drainer are so weak, that they have no role. aside from their comparable ultra slow speed when equipping them.

  • ictus - its to slow. neuts and missile launchers are the most massive items ingame, next to armor plates. limited choices for "misc" slots limits ictus to a single role that can be slightly adjusted  by sacrificing defense for more range or stealth. neither allows it to run at least a bit faster then a fully tanked heavy mech with a lwf.

  • Assaults - Waspish.
    back in the days, this bot had at least a slope advantage, which was logical due to its lower center of mass. making all bots equal in slopes, and adjusting overall terrain so every bot can get almost everywhere made this bot only have a small LoS advantage that is so insignificant that its neglected by its slow speed.

  • Mechs - well, tyrannos suffers from beiing slowest, having limited legslots (again, lwf meta) and having weakest DPS.
    Kain's racial speed advantage is to small to make a difference against a lwf+plate heavie with much more DPS

  • heavies
    these are the sum of all balancing issues combined into one bot. tuner stacking, lwf mechanic, attribute scaling.

  • Light weight Frame
    these are the major issue in all speed balance discussions. The way the formula works, the frame does not only reduce the robots mass, it alse reduces the mass of everything that is fitted into the robot.
    which robot then benefits the most, and which one the least? basicly the one that already has the highest base mass and that is the least affected by the mass of the equip you put on it - together with the ability to fit enough other legslot modules to compensate for the penalties.

tl;dr:
its not done with adjusting some speed attributes, its much more complex. and it comes down to demobs and lwf's having more importance then anything else.

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Re: Robot Speed

make plate not stack with lwf or with self, make plates have more mass, re-balance demob effect and resistances.

@Ville quad plated arbs are slower than a plate frame heavy with a speed nexus.... quad plated arbs are dumb.

This problem wasnt here before the big speed buff/robot re-balance.

@Merkle have you played with a stripped speednexus tackle.... yeah speed it up roll already have people rubberbanding and invis tree issues

FFS please keep your IMBA posts in the proper forum

Re: Robot Speed

Or you can add heavier bots.

Re: Robot Speed

Khadia Khan wrote:

@Merkle have you played with a stripped speednexus tackle.... yeah speed it up roll already have people rubberbanding and invis tree issues

Talking about speed nexuses - they are slowly turning into "must have" module - soon every rusty kitchen sink in game will have one equipped, and this issue needs to be adressed. Maybe it's time to make nexuses affecting everyone but giver and implement some specific booster-bot.

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