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120k+140k+40k = 300k
Where am I wrong exactly?
Also 7-8 skills in a mech makes you competent, not competitive. Competent is not good enough for 1v1 situations.
I am also not talking about huge changes to the game mechanics. More DLC would do it or an option to transmute credits into EP. Dont tell me programming that is so much time consuming.
Actually competent is fine if your fit is better. Also your competent in a mk2 mech - the second most powerful class in the game. Any more than that would just remove the point in ep at all. If your point is you should be able to buy ep enough to max out a class I think that is crazy. Maxing out gunnery is a big commitment, its the point of diminishing ep returns and the current DLC are for sure fit for purpose.
no amount of EP is going to help where you are really lacking, scouting. Wonder why Veerans have better advantage then you, look no further than a castel in a masker.
It's not just that but the ability to Pvp 100% of the time you are online because you already have enough stuff. Hence why I said if the game is going to succeed through mechanics change (since the player base is too selfish to do it through the sandbox) you need removal or stocks on a permanent basis alongside scouting changes
Newbies leaving game because the LAG.
(deleted-edit)
Actually I'm not gonna argue and go further into offtopic.
I have said how things look from my perspective. Mentioned why most of my friends left. If youre hoping for new players to stay when they realize how long would they need to wait to achieve a single fit to competitive level - wait and see. I only hope there will be a game to come back to after all that time and cash investment. With bigger than 5v5 "battles".
It's a shame that its peoples perception that this is the case. With ten active people with 400k ep and a decent industry backbone you could own the server.
It's a shame that its peoples perception that this is the case. With ten active people with 400k ep and a decent industry backbone you could own the server.
#truth
Mroq's "review" is basicly the summary of how worthless a low-EP non-heavy mech, non mk2 robot is percieved (and actually is).
and thats not only pvp, thats every aspect of the game. even maxed out extension light combat bot is nothing you would field to shoot at things.
Anni that's horse ***. With effective min maxing you can easily be competitive without even using mk2 but the point if you don't have to be. 400k ep gets you to about 80% effectiveness in a mk2 mech and mk2 mechs are certainly an achievable goal for a mid tier pvper. There is a perception its that way of course but that's all it is.
A four man min maxed fleet of two Artemis and two vagas mk1 and fit correctly will out damage a couple of mk2 heavies - especially some of the special fits I see all the time.
I would confidently take on three mk2 heavies with this fleet even with four 400k characters. You would win most times against the *** tier corps and even against competent opponents it requires them to counter fit or change their fleet.
I bought a brand new account a few days ago for mining. I bought both DLC for that account (not Steam friends/family abuse). I was able to get advanced robotics to 10 and industrial whatever to 10 and most required support skills to ~5 (pretty sure I got energy mgmt to 7 or 8) as well as set one of the two best sparks in the game and months of EP boost activated. With in a couple hours or so I was in a T4 Riveler after doing the tutorial.
It's true that I have the resources to out fit that account and a total newbie wouldn't, but any decent corp they joined would give them something (apparently not ETHOS though since they kick people for losing Termis's, true story). I could have waited for the Summer sale and got everything half price but I wanted it now and it's obvious the game could use the cash.
It's a great deal the way it's set up. You're basically getting a bunch of EP up front and good sparks for the same cost the base game used to cost with nothing and it allows you to be competitive, really, without waiting around for 6 months like you do in EVE, and more less, had to do here. I also like the way you can refund skills for credits to respec something or try something out and decide it's not for you without just being *** outta luck (*** combat missions).
Solo isn't the norm (very unfortunately).
jita
where is the mk1 yagel and the mk1 waspish in your equation that is activily dealing damage?
how many missions do you need to run - say alpha 2 with low mission extension and single agent (when i say single, i mean it) to afford that one mk2 artemis that is competitive in your eyes?
also, the "four player" is already a requirement that surpasses modern standards my a factor of... 4
In most mmorpgs, you have to spend some time and effort to PvP with vets. And in most of them you can't do a thing to vets, because growth is exponential. Instead, in Perpetuum, growth is slowing down due to extension costs.
Seriously, isn't there any limit for whining? 
A decent fit Artemis mk2 is probably a hundred mil. That's what, three to four hours work on an alpha for a decent skilled harvesting bot. Combat is probably double that.
Or have a half decent industry in a small corp and make it yourself for close to 25% of that price
Getting a bot is the easy part. Anyway, if you lessen the 300k ep by decent harvesting skills then its even less of a combat ready pilot. Also heavy mech makes around 150mil/h on alpha but not decent - a good one.
Noone got kicked out of ETHOS solely for loosing any number of bots.
Never had to wait for 6 months for anything in Eve. It was 2 maximum for learning skills when those were still a thing. Probably becouse there always were large number of players with similar SP levels = activity. With our numbers you're down to whatever is happening at the moment. Creating multiple alts partially solves that problem, but is it really necessary? Also I was looking at one of my alts in Eve today and thought - "Wouldn't it be nice for him to fly a command ship" and I did so an hour and 5mil SP later. Now if that would be equivalent to 7 month old 14mil SP character we get with DLC that would be an excuse of a command ship instead of a real thing (unless were talking off grid boosting).
Whats so scary about players having more EP at the start? Maybe you need an option to trade EP for credits but only when above 500k EP? Or you simply want to play by yourselves?
If I thought it made a difference I'd be all for giving 2m ep to every player. I'm saying it won't, in my opinion of course
Mroq's "review" is basicly the summary of how worthless a low-EP non-heavy mech, non mk2 robot is percieved (and actually is).
and thats not only pvp, thats every aspect of the game. even maxed out extension light combat bot is nothing you would field to shoot at things.
Perception and reality are 2 different things.... Yes Mk2 heavy pvp is a mainstay in this game but look at the #1 pvp player last month. Mainly used an assault. I mainly use assaults. A single 400k ep player can max out all assault bot skills.
Peoples Perception that a Mk2 HM is the be all end all bot, is a logical error compounded by the fact that: Speeds are screwed in favor of un-demobable heavys, a Mech with speed nexus can out run an assault built to kill a Mech. Ranges and robot bonuses in the patch that killed all flavors other than seth mk2.
For sap warfare yes Hm is a preferred tool. But like others have mentioned good pvp'er use scouts, use maskers and understand bots limitations and bonuses. I myself like to solo pvp when I can, I've turned down alot of 1v1s because I don't have the element of surprise or a terrain that suits me.
TL:dr New players focus on end content before they explore the content they could use.
I've been trying to tell everyone the problem. Everyone wants to ignore me. But I'm going to say it again. Heavy Mechs are too fast! Pvp in this game should revolve around assaults and mechs. Roaming heavy groups *** up new players chance of being competitive.
I prefer the arbalest mk2 its my go to bot.
Getting a bot is the easy part. Anyway, if you lessen the 300k ep by decent harvesting skills then its even less of a combat ready pilot. Also heavy mech makes around 150mil/h on alpha but not decent - a good one.
Noone got kicked out of ETHOS solely for loosing any number of bots.
Never had to wait for 6 months for anything in Eve. It was 2 maximum for learning skills when those were still a thing. Probably becouse there always were large number of players with similar SP levels = activity. With our numbers you're down to whatever is happening at the moment. Creating multiple alts partially solves that problem, but is it really necessary? Also I was looking at one of my alts in Eve today and thought - "Wouldn't it be nice for him to fly a command ship" and I did so an hour and 5mil SP later. Now if that would be equivalent to 7 month old 14mil SP character we get with DLC that would be an excuse of a command ship instead of a real thing (unless were talking off grid boosting).
Whats so scary about players having more EP at the start? Maybe you need an option to trade EP for credits but only when above 500k EP? Or you simply want to play by yourselves?
Now your just blowing smoke up someones a^^, I have 5 Eve accounts all with various skill point lvls all with different specialty. I know 100% I couldn't take my miner/hauler/jump freighter and make him a command ship pilot in an hour.
How ever I know I could take my all Subcap pilot and swap a training que and have mim/gallente command ship in an hour because they have all the prereqs covered. That particular toon has tons of EP tho. If i played through from launch it would be one of those accounts for 500 dollars.
You can pilot a mk2 mech but you never understood the fundamentals of the race your piloting you likely dont even know the effective range + falloff of your fit with out looking it up. I know them off the top of my head, That is how you become good at pvp you know your bot inside and out. No pay to win will help that, no EP will correct a fundamental logical error of thinking. Sorry you sir don't know the limits of the bot your in but expect better performance.
Look at world of tanks you can buy gold rounds but it does not mean your a better tanker than the guy shooting standard rounds.
A single 400k ep player can max out all assault bot skills
Robot Control :
-basic robotics
-combat robot spec.
-hi-tec robot spec.
-nuimqol robot control
174.000
Engineering :
-accelerated armor repair
-accelerated reload
-accumulator expansion
-complex mechanics
-economical armor usage
-economical weapon usage
-energy management
-improved armor repair
-mechanics
-optimized armor usage
-optimized engineering
-optimized weapon usage
-reactor expansion
210.000
Electronics:
-accelerated target locking
-data processing
-demobilization
-long distance EW
-long range targeting
-optimized EW usage
66.000
Weapon usage :
-basic magnetostatic
-critical hit
-general firing
-improved falloff
-rapid firing
-sharpshooting
-target analysis
144.000
So all of those skills at lvl10 are worth 594.000 EP.
So its all DLC + 137 days with ep booster ( 3288 hours ).
Now I got the maxed arbalest basic skills. But You, veteran plaer, would put more skills in before venturing out would You not?
So for a new player to avoid waiting and get the full-single-bot-fit pvp potential he needs 294.000 more than he is getting. This looks like a job for 2 more DLC's similar in size to the previous.
Or would you rather refuse this sort of activity for newcomers?
Now your just blowing smoke up someones a^^, I have 5 Eve accounts all with various skill point lvls all with different specialty. I know 100% I couldn't take my miner/hauler/jump freighter and make him a command ship pilot in an hour.
You are wrong. Look up skill injectors and extractors.
I dont use miner alts, so only needed 10 injectors for maxed out command ship.
It didn't even take an hour to be honest. Around a hundred clicks did it.
A single 400k ep player can max out all assault bot skills
Robot Control :
-basic robotics
-combat robot spec.
-hi-tec robot spec.
-nuimqol robot control
174.000Engineering :
-accelerated armor repair
-accelerated reload
-accumulator expansion
-complex mechanics
-economical armor usage
-economical weapon usage
-energy management
-improved armor repair
-mechanics
-optimized armor usage
-optimized engineering
-optimized weapon usage
-reactor expansion
210.000Electronics:
-accelerated target locking
-data processing
-demobilization
-long distance EW
-long range targeting
-optimized EW usage
66.000Weapon usage :
-basic magnetostatic
-critical hit
-general firing
-improved falloff
-rapid firing
-sharpshooting
-target analysis
144.000So all of those skills at lvl10 are worth 594.000 EP.
So its all DLC + 137 days with ep booster ( 3288 hours ).
Now I got the maxed arbalest basic skills. But You, veteran plaer, would put more skills in before venturing out would You not?
So for a new player to avoid waiting and get the full-single-bot-fit pvp potential he needs 294.000 more than he is getting. This looks like a job for 2 more DLC's similar in size to the previous.
Or would you rather refuse this sort of activity for newcomers?
Now your just obviously lying and smoking crack. You don't need a lot of those skills past five to run an assault bot. Having them higher doesn't make you do more damage or give you better defence. Stop talking ***.
A single 400k ep player can max out all assault bot skills
boo hoo
Now I got the maxed arbalest basic skills. But You, veteran plaer, would put more skills in before venturing out would You not?So for a new player to avoid waiting and get the full-single-bot-fit pvp potential he needs 294.000 more than he is getting. This looks like a job for 2 more DLC's similar in size to the previous.
Or would you rather refuse this sort of activity for newcomers?
You dont need to max any of the skillsffs, to be competitive or ever successful what does that 1% extra damage help you in most cases not much at all, I would say a bottom line competitive fit for an assault would be basic 10 racial 6-8, 5 hi tech, 5 combat for robot control
Then you look at gunnery depending on the weapons/race you went. If you went lasers ofc fall off/rapid firing/crit/ general firing are all important important. But what does a magnadart arb need falloff for? you get 20 more meters of *** damage. What would a Wasp need falloff or precision for.
Electronics and Eng, 4 big ones are data processing/Energy man/Accu expans/reactpr expans. I would personaly bump the first 3 up to 10 and put reactor expan at 8 then look at my fit unless your going so crazy fit reactor on an assault isnt an issue more cpu. After seeing what my fit will need I then look at the Optimized/ Improved /Economical skills
With my remaining EP I would Slap in Long distance eletronic warfare to 8-10 and Demob to 8-10 (pre-req jamming lol). I would do this as most of your kills as an assault with a fleet will either be killing of enemy light ewar or demobbing the enemy mech ewar.
Now you will likely have some EP left over. Depending on your play style you could go for masking, ewar skills, finish off some gunnery, a nexus skill like speed, or even start working on mech skills. The key here is you got 90 of the base fitting skills out of the way. You will be very effective against Lights assaults and even Mechs and Hmechs if you fit right and play your strategy right.
This goes with my above post
A single 400k ep player can max out all assault bot skills
Robot Control :
-basic robotics 10
-combat robot spec. 5-7
-hi-tec robot spec. 5-7
-nuimqol robot control 5-7Engineering :
-accelerated armor repair likely not needed yet but 5
-accelerated reload 5
-accumulator expansion 10
-complex mechanics 5
-economical armor usage
-economical weapon usage
-energy management 10
-improved armor repair
-mechanics 5-7 depending on left over ep
-optimized armor usage
-optimized engineering
-optimized weapon usage
-reactor expansion 8-10Electronics:
-accelerated target locking 5-7
-data processing 10
-demobilization 10
-long distance EW 8-10
-long range targeting 5-7
-optimized EW usageWeapon usage :
-basic magnetostatic 10
-critical hit 8
-general firing 10
-improved falloff lol prob should be precision firing 8-10
-rapid firing 10
-sharpshooting 8-9 its an assault your gonna be with in 200m no matter what you need to d-mob them
-target analysis 5-7 it adds 1% really don't pick bonesNow I got the maxed arbalest basic skills. But You, veteran plaer, would put more skills in before venturing out would You not?
No I would roll out in this and fit an evasive and kill a Mroq kain with out a problem
Or would you rather refuse this sort of activity for newcomers?
You would have learned alot about the game if you would have gone light ewar before and been dedicated tackle for a month before going straight to kain then mesmer
Back in the day (with population) it was almost a pre req of corps that were active pvp that you played a month of only light ewar/ tackle to learn the basics of the game.
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