Topic: Siege mirrors

A new technology, siege mirrors, inspired by Archimedes's legendary defense of Syracuse. An item equippable by (relatively) low-level players that when many are held on the same central focus (a friendly high-level player, probably specially equipped), buff the central focus to heroic proportions (powerful superheated armor? powerful accum regeneration? Whatever kind of buff the DEVs decide.). Of course, it would require line of sight to both the central focus and to the sun.

This would leverage Perpetuum's existing line of sight, terrain, and day/night cycle implementation to get emergent, terrain-and-time-of-day-dependent combat strategies. The individual heroism could make for entertaining battles (particularly with explicit limits like shadows and night-time), and being a mirror-carrier would allow supporters to participate. The technology could be invented by a splinter theodica/pelistal faction (for theodica's laser technology, and pelistal's thermal armor technology).

(I also like a computer virus technology idea, mentioned elsewhere on this forum, possibly spread by a single traitor revealing themselves, which would also be heroic in a different way, but this post is just about the siege mirrors.)

Re: Siege mirrors

adam savage? Is that you?

Contact me in game via e-mail or PM for -CS- recruitment information.

Re: Siege mirrors

Just tested this on an ant. He died.

Re: Siege mirrors

Artem Blue wrote:

A new technology, siege mirrors, inspired by Archimedes's legendary defense of Syracuse.

Uhmm, you realise that Syacuse still fell during that battle, and Archimedes got spitted on a gladius ( despite the commander's orders that he was to be taken alive), right?

In the gods we trust, all others bring data!

Re: Siege mirrors

Lupus Aurelius wrote:
Artem Blue wrote:

A new technology, siege mirrors, inspired by Archimedes's legendary defense of Syracuse.

Uhmm, you realise that Syacuse still fell during that battle, and Archimedes got spitted on a gladius ( despite the commander's orders that he was to be taken alive), right?

Does this make the defense less legendary?

Re: Siege mirrors

I'm sorry, but this idea is so far out in the left field that I can't help but wonder if we're being trolled. tongue

Re: Siege mirrors

Clearly this is feature is needed to make arkhes more useful in combat.

Re: Siege mirrors

LOL this must be a joke.

Re: Siege mirrors

Lupus Aurelius wrote:
Artem Blue wrote:

A new technology, siege mirrors, inspired by Archimedes's legendary defense of Syracuse.

Uhmm, you realise that Syacuse still fell during that battle, and Archimedes got spitted on a gladius ( despite the commander's orders that he was to be taken alive), right?

You do realize the Roman commander ordered Archimedes taken alive because of his ingenious devices used in the defense of Syracuse.

Re: Siege mirrors

This thread should go here: http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … -the-game/

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

11 (edited by Lupus Aurelius 2010-12-17 04:14:41)

Re: Siege mirrors

Warwick wrote:
Lupus Aurelius wrote:
Artem Blue wrote:

A new technology, siege mirrors, inspired by Archimedes's legendary defense of Syracuse.

Uhmm, you realise that Syacuse still fell during that battle, and Archimedes got spitted on a gladius ( despite the commander's orders that he was to be taken alive), right?

You do realize the Roman commander ordered Archimedes taken alive because of his ingenious devices used in the defense of Syracuse.

But not because of the "mirrors"...

According to the popular account given by Plutarch, Archimedes was contemplating a mathematical diagram when the city was captured. A Roman soldier commanded him to come and meet General Marcellus but he declined, saying that he had to finish working on the problem. The soldier was enraged by this, and killed Archimedes with his sword. Plutarch also gives a lesser-known account of the death of Archimedes which suggests that he may have been killed while attempting to surrender to a Roman soldier. According to this story, Archimedes was carrying mathematical instruments, and was killed because the soldier thought that they were valuable items. General Marcellus was reportedly angered by the death of Archimedes, as he considered him a valuable scientific asset and had ordered that he not be harmed.

Valerius Maximus (c. 20 BC-c. AD 50 ), Memorable Doings and Sayings, Book VIII.7.ext. 7
"I should say that Archimedes’ diligence also bore fruit if it had not both given him life and taken it away. At the capture of Syracuse Marcellus had been aware that his victory had been held up much and long by Archimedes’ machines. However, pleased with the man’s exceptional skill, he gave out that his life was to be spared, putting almost as much glory in saving Archimedes as in crushing Syracuse. But as Archimedes was drawing diagrams with mind and eyes fixed on the ground, a soldier who had broken into the house in quest of loot with sword drawn over his head asked him who he was. Too much absorbed in tracking down his objective, Archimedes could not give his name but said, protecting the dust with his hands, “I beg you, don’t disturb this,” and was slaughtered as neglectful of the victor’s command; with his blood he confused the lines of his art. So it fell out that he was first granted his life and then stripped of it by reason of the same pursuit."

UNIVERSAL HISTORY by Polybius (c. 200-118 BC)
" But Archimedes had constructed artillery which could cover a whole variety of ranges, so that while the attacking ships were still at a distance he scored so many hits with his catapults and stone-throwers that he was able to cause them severe damage and harass their approach. Then, as the distance decreased and these weapons began to carry over the enemy's heads, he resorted to smaller and smaller machines, and so demoralized the Romans that their advance was brought to a standstill. In the end Marcellus was reduced in despair to bringing up his ships secretly under cover of darkness. But when they had almost reached the shore, and were therefore too close to be struck by the catapults, Archimedes had devised yet another weapon to repel the marines, who were fighting from the decks. He had had the walls pierced with large numbers of loopholes at the height of a man, which were about a palm's breadth wide at the outer surface of the walls. Behind each of these and inside the walls were stationed archers with rows of so-called 'scorpions', a small catapult which discharged iron darts, and by shooting through these embrasures they put many of the marines out of action. Through these tactics he not only foiled all the enemy's attacks, both those made at long range and any attempt at hand-to-hand fighting, but also caused them heavy losses.  "

The first mention of it occurs in Lucian (c. 120–180 AD), who only states that Archimedes was able to burn the ships by artificial means. One variation tells of Archimedes using an elaborate combination of mirrors or polished shields to focus the sun’s rays on the Roman ships like a giant magnifying glass. This version, however, can be traced back only as far as to Galen (130–200 AD).

Point being, despite all that, Syracuse fell to he Romans, aftr a 2 year seige.

In the gods we trust, all others bring data!

Re: Siege mirrors

And... case closed.

Re: Siege mirrors

Thank you, Professor Aurelius.

I am Perpetuum's Most Dangerous Agent and an equal opportunity troll.
-> You just lost The Game <-
"Perpetuum sounds like a something I would stick up my *** for enjoyement." -Kaito Kurusaki

Re: Siege mirrors

You'd think that 3 episodes of MythBusters should have sufficed to prove this will never work. Even if president Obama asked for it.

Re: Siege mirrors

it never worked on myth busters because they were too stupid to realize the importance of accuracy. A mesh screen? Kids who can't sit still holding mirrors? If you look at the footage the reflections are all over the place.

Re: Siege mirrors

Lupus Aurelius wrote:
Warwick wrote:
Lupus Aurelius wrote:

Uhmm, you realise that Syacuse still fell during that battle, and Archimedes got spitted on a gladius ( despite the commander's orders that he was to be taken alive), right?

You do realize the Roman commander ordered Archimedes taken alive because of his ingenious devices used in the defense of Syracuse.

But not because of the "mirrors"...

....

Point being, despite all that, Syracuse fell to he Romans, aftr a 2 year seige.

The first post mentions 'inspired by Archimede's legendary defense'. This statement does not confirm 'siege mirrors' as actual but instead implies the mirrors are mythical. I do not know if English is your first language so it could just be confusion. Also to be fair the phrase the author used could also be used if he believed the mirrors to be true but then using words like 'inspired' and 'legendary' would be out of place. To give you an idea of the difference think of the phrase 'based on true events' and 'inspired by true event'. The first phrase should leave you with the impression that it will follow those events much more closely than the second.

Your reply to the OP sought to diminish Archimede effect on the siege by pointing out that the Romans eventually won. While this is true it belies the fact the Syracusian dominated the actual fighting that occurred during the siege. Much of that dominance was due to the devices that Archimedes developed and deployed. It was due to these devices that Marcellus order Archimedes taken alive. And as a nit-picking point the siege lasted 3 years. Archimede was killed about 2 years into the siege when the Roman breach the city through subterfuge. The defenders retreated to the citadel which would hold out for an other 8 months.

Point being do not diminish the legacy of Archimedes.

17 (edited by Lupus Aurelius 2010-12-17 19:53:45)

Re: Siege mirrors

No intention of diminishing Archimedes achievements, neither in the defense of Syracuse, nor in mathematics.

Rather, it was to dimishish the OP, for a blatantly ridiculous idea based on a total misunderstanding of classical history.  So i suggest you go back and reread the posts, and obtain a better comprehesion of the English language, before reading into my statements what you want them to say...

And yes, you are a nitpicker.  Go find some nits to pick.

nit·pick (ntpk) intr.v. nit·picked, nit·pick·ing, nit·picks
a) To be concerned with or find fault with insignificant details.
b) Nitpicking is the act of removing nits (the eggs of lice, generally head lice) from the host's hair.

In the gods we trust, all others bring data!

Re: Siege mirrors

To expand on "legendary" - I think it's apocryphal, or dubious, that Archimedes did defend Syracuse, even temporarily, with either mirrors or lenses.

The point is to take inspiration from the legend to create a (admittedly pseudoscientific) weapon that has the interesting strategic/tactical limitation that it doesn't work at night, or when shadowed by a mountain. If we instead called it a "pumped resonance between the target and Nia's mysterious lasing sunspots", would you be happier?