Re: Rework mining

Ludlow Bursar wrote:

How about this for a re-work (from a miner):

  • Fields of the same total ore but with 20 tiles instead of 200.

  • Directional scanning still works as now but resource fields are visible on terrain by tinging it a different colour for each resource type. Not bright pink or anything silly, a subtle tinge.

  • Scanner reveals precise resource remaining per tile. Area charges reveal total across all tiles.

  • All fields are of mixed type resources but each tile has only one resource type.

  • No plants grow on a resource field.

  • New laser type which extracts resources without charges. Existing laser type with charges is rebalanced such that only 3 can be fitted to a Riv (4 if you compromise the fit slightly) but extracts more than 6 of lesser lasers, Riv can fit 6 lasers, not 5.

  • All mining bots receive special cargo area exclusively for resources.

  • Harvesting lasers can have targets queued so they automatically switch. Extension determines queue length.

There's a few ideas to chew on.

Some sounds good. Others meh. Id rather see directional charges point to all ore fields on island with different density readings depending on distance and skill level leading to a scan of a field with a center density of 10 being the most dense tile with all surrounding tiles a little less similar to a real ore deposit. Make the fields more condense, less overall total ore and more frequent server respawns.

Re: Rework mining

Ludlow has great ideas there, making the individual tile hold a bigger % of the total field size would prolong the interval between player interaction with the process. Hopefully significantly enough.

A specialized ore cargohold would be great too, I love the idea but I feel first we must make solids and liquids on par in "difficulty" of mining.

Zoom you have the actual statistics, I'm sure you can notice the discrepancy between the volume of liquid ore mined vs volume of solid ore mined.

Re: Rework mining

I would rather see new content vs polishing (yet again) the current stuff.

DEVs time is too limited, they need to work on new stuff.

------------------
Bottom Line:
Miners will always mine
non-miners will always hate mining

If the game has new players, it will bring in both types. All are happy smile

If we spend time overhauling mining, we will have a few players who will like mining a little more, but the game will still be dead, so they will leave anyway.

Work on new content to bring in (or retain) players.  Tweaking mining will not accomplish this

Re: Rework mining

I've never heard anyone say, i hate mining so much i'm quitting. I've heard plenty of miners say I can't believe they made all of the mining spawns a third of the size and now I have packs of murderous observers and quit.

That said there are plenty of people who just never get to that point and maybe its because mining is terrible. Personally I don't mind it but I also like it in the butt. Different strokes for different folks.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Rework mining

I'd like to visibly see ores on the ground to add to the interaction with the world.  So I'm walking along and see some color tiles and since I see grey tiles I know that they are Titan ores and you can tell how much is in it by that colors shade.  Still keep directional scanning so I could hunt stuff down but it would make tile scans obsolete.  Thoughts?  Jita tell me how this could be bottable?

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Re: Rework mining

Ville wrote:

I'd like to visibly see ores on the ground to add to the interaction with the world.  So I'm walking along and see some color tiles and since I see grey tiles I know that they are Titan ores and you can tell how much is in it by that colors shade.  Still keep directional scanning so I could hunt stuff down but it would make tile scans obsolete.  Thoughts?  Jita tell me how this could be bottable?

its bottable the same way as you can extract all meshes and textures in realtime. since the ground mesh consists of uniform scaled squares (two triangles = one ground tile) with that "decal" mapped onto, it would be easy to identify all ore-spots on screen.

but maybe i am thinking to complicated, and setting the client to low-detail is enough to grasp that data on screen big_smile

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: Rework mining

I was told, you can bot the login screen.

Was proven correct.  No screens tho.

I am Perpetuum.

Re: Rework mining

Ludlow Bursar wrote:

How about this for a re-work (from a miner):

  • Fields of the same total ore but with 20 tiles instead of 200.

  • Directional scanning still works as now but resource fields are visible on terrain by tinging it a different colour for each resource type. Not bright pink or anything silly, a subtle tinge.

  • Scanner reveals precise resource remaining per tile. Area charges reveal total across all tiles.

  • All fields are of mixed type resources but each tile has only one resource type.

  • No plants grow on a resource field.

  • New laser type which extracts resources without charges. Existing laser type with charges is rebalanced such that only 3 can be fitted to a Riv (4 if you compromise the fit slightly) but extracts more than 6 of lesser lasers, Riv can fit 6 lasers, not 5.

  • All mining bots receive special cargo area exclusively for resources.

  • Harvesting lasers can have targets queued so they automatically switch. Extension determines queue length.

There's a few ideas to chew on.

The more I think about this, the more I think that point one above should be combined with zone based extraction and resource total bonuses. Something like:

Alpha: Resource Total x1, Extraction Rate x1
Beta: Resource Total x2, Extraction Rate x4
Gamma: Resource Total x3, Extraction Rate x5

Yes, really 4x/5x for Beta/Gamma zones.

Re: Rework mining

Some of your ideas are really great and worth implementing. Time To Mine needs to be significantly reduced because;

-> How long does it take to mine 10M titan ore -> What is 10M titan ore worth -> What amount of NIC would you get from putting that much time into missioning -> end result: Nobody bothers mining.

Mining should be making about ~75-80% of missioning income to be a viable alternative to running missions 24/7.

Re: Rework mining

Naismith wrote:

Some of your ideas are really great and worth implementing. Time To Mine needs to be significantly reduced because;

-> How long does it take to mine 10M titan ore -> What is 10M titan ore worth -> What amount of NIC would you get from putting that much time into missioning -> end result: Nobody bothers mining.

Mining should be making about ~75-80% of missioning income to be a viable alternative to running missions 24/7.

There will be even miners, somebody like to do that.

Anyway I am with you, my idea: make a deployable "Miner" with low yield and limited cargo, and you can field in the terrain and go "home" until it finishes. I would do some "mining" this way. Now I dont.

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: Rework mining

It's a question of time more then liking or not liking mining.

If a single 5 minute mission is worth 2 hours of mining, anyone with a brain will do fifteen 5 minute missions and buy 10 hours of mining worth of minerals, and still be ahead.

37 (edited by Rovoc 2015-10-20 17:41:03)

Re: Rework mining

5 minutes............ missions take that long?  >.>

Re: Rework mining

I have another way to do this.  Why don't we take something we already have in game and use it.  Mining towers and energy wells.  We combine the two.  The new mining tower would use both features.  Energy well:  Mines within a radius around it and deposits the ore into an internal field container that has limited cargo capacity.  Mining tower:  Requires fuel to operate, I.E.  Energy transfered too it OR from energy cells deposited into its internal chamber.  It would also provide mining and harvesting bonuses in a surrounding area.  To keep it from being exploitable you can set a total life cycle on it and it only operates as long as it has energy.  And you have to buy them from the syndicate supply shop.  It can have three tiers.  80% of an argano yield at L5 extensions, tier 1.  80% of termis yield at L5 extensions, tier 2.  80% of a rivelers yield L5 extensions, tier 3.  And only have 1 deployable across the world bound to player.  The fixed internal container would be 80 U, 240U and 720U respectably and would have a life span of 4 hours.  They are destroyable on beta and gamma.  You can use the existing energy well models just scale them down a bit like 1/4.  And viola you fix mining by allowing a player to micromanage their ore production will being able to do something more engaging OR increase his yield by adding mining bonuses allowing less time to be spent in the field and more time doing something else!

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Re: Rework mining

Naismith wrote:

It's a question of time more then liking or not liking mining.

If a single 5 minute mission is worth 2 hours of mining, anyone with a brain will do fifteen 5 minute missions and buy 10 hours of mining worth of minerals, and still be ahead.


...and if no one mines prices will shoot up to balance out both activities.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Rework mining

Celebro wrote:
Naismith wrote:

It's a question of time more then liking or not liking mining.

If a single 5 minute mission is worth 2 hours of mining, anyone with a brain will do fifteen 5 minute missions and buy 10 hours of mining worth of minerals, and still be ahead.


...and if no one mines prices will shoot up to balance out both activities.

Not necessarily.  Because of the large surplus corps have in their hangers will take literally, Years to clean up..

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Re: Rework mining

Ville wrote:
Celebro wrote:
Naismith wrote:

It's a question of time more then liking or not liking mining.

If a single 5 minute mission is worth 2 hours of mining, anyone with a brain will do fifteen 5 minute missions and buy 10 hours of mining worth of minerals, and still be ahead.


...and if no one mines prices will shoot up to balance out both activities.

Not necessarily.  Because of the large surplus corps have in their hangers will take literally, Years to clean up..

Why would they sell it? To mine more..

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Rework mining

To cash in on supply and demand.

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Re: Rework mining

Celebro I don't think you realize there's some of us who have to legitimately rent out a separate corp storage for 2,14 stacks of ore otherwise everything crashes.

44 (edited by Goffer 2015-10-21 17:24:23)

Re: Rework mining

NIC is just another kind of resource needed for production. Due to some reason there is market established to trade one special resource called NIC vs any other. The creation of every resource has a bit different mechanism, but sums up to invest game time to receive that resource.
It is vital to understand that changing the rate to create one of these resources always inflicts drastic impact on exchange rates.

Re: Rework mining

mining for production is something of the past.
Ville sums it up in his post here:

Ville wrote:

Let's face it as soon as the syndicate supply shops online we have instant content as we have access to a more direct way of obtaining T4+ and I want some gauss Seths with t4+.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: Rework mining

As a miner, I too would like to see something visual added for each mineral. Blue and grey pools bubbling up from the ground for HDT and Liquizit etc. I agree that the rate of mining and harvesting needs to be increased and like Ludlow's idea of island multipliers. If we do that we do need to add something like mineral degradation to encourage mineral use and to slowly eliminate those huge stockpiles we all have. Maybe also add something like mineral purity so that titan mined on beta and gamma is worth more and is more useful than titan mined on alpha. Id also like to see several new plants and minerals added to the game.

Re: Rework mining

I'd just like to see new content added.

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Re: Rework mining

Annihilator wrote:

mining for production is something of the past.
Ville sums it up in his post here:

Ville wrote:

Let's face it as soon as the syndicate supply shops online we have instant content as we have access to a more direct way of obtaining T4+ and I want some gauss Seths with t4+.

say goodbye to mining, production, and markets (lol, we don't have a market) and say hello to token grind online.

Re: Rework mining

Solution to mining:

Make the newbies do it.  It's called indentured servitude.  You're PoE.  You should know about this already. I am disappoint.

Oh wait, there aren't any newbies.  Ha nvm

Re: Rework mining

In a nutshell, there is really nothing wrong with mining, it more of a passive activity.

Take Harvesting for example activity is slightly higher, then again people prefer mining. The next step to lower passivity would be to want the game to play by itself, which I don't understand the reasoning why.

RIP PERPETUUM