Re: Field rescue discussion

DEV Zoom wrote:

If you're still worried about the industrial effects of this, how about using player-manufactured repair kits to repair the robot? (This was actually our initial idea, not NIC.)

Yeah thats a good idea. So if a new player dies in a Kain they can buy a player manufactured kit that replaces it.

Heres an idea - why don't we call the player manufactured replacement kit a "Kain'

Ground breaking.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Field rescue discussion

Jita wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

If you're still worried about the industrial effects of this, how about using player-manufactured repair kits to repair the robot? (This was actually our initial idea, not NIC.)

Yeah thats a good idea. So if a new player dies in a Kain they can buy a player manufactured kit that replaces it.

Heres an idea - why don't we call the player manufactured replacement kit a "Kain'

Ground breaking.

Though it would be much easier to get a repair kit than an actual Kain WITH the modules you had on it. Convenience feature.

Re: Field rescue discussion

DEV Zoom wrote:

If you're still worried about the industrial effects of this, how about using player-manufactured repair kits to repair the robot? (This was actually our initial idea, not NIC.)

I don't think this is a good idea Zoom. In my mind we're way beyond the point where someone can "run out of bots" overnight, it just gives all the vet corps a way to pay to X-uple the size of their stockpiles with NIC (that everyone has squirreled away on mule accounts due to more then half a year of botting on Alpha).

Alpha income is sorted, any noob with a Sequer can prolly fit out a PVP robot in 30 minutes of running something like L5 transport missions.

As a NIC facet, missions are better then static spawn botting because for example I can't take 3k medium missile launchers to Gamma, recycle them and haul the commodities to Beta for production anymore.

Re: Field rescue discussion

Yeah that's the problem here. This feature isn't really meant for the veteran PvP'ers and all the feedback I can get here is from them.

55 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2015-07-29 08:44:50)

Re: Field rescue discussion

DEV Zoom wrote:

Yeah that's the problem here. This feature isn't really meant for the veteran PvP'ers and all the feedback I can get here is from them.

WELL that's kinda the problem with the game as a whole right there smile

Us vets could shut up.... but then the silence would be deafening. tongue

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Field rescue discussion

The cult of perpetuum.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Field rescue discussion

What if there will be some other limitation together with NIC payment?

How about making those field rescues time based?

You lost your bot - you pay 20% of it's cost and wait 10 min to get it back from repair. Lose it again - now it's 40% and 1 hour. Still not entertained enough - 60% and 24 hours, you got my point.

Numbers could be adjusted accordingly. So you either wait or screw that and buy new one, or buy fresh replacement before you die, or whatever. Enforces you to have more than just 1 bot at all.

Another option - those "recovered" bots could be slightly less effective - each spent live could reduce their stats like cpu/reactor, or even bonuses - so you either be immortal but weared off, or shiny new but paid.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Field rescue discussion

DEV Zoom wrote:

Yeah that's the problem here. This feature isn't really meant for the veteran PvP'ers and all the feedback I can get here is from them.

Shouldn't the veterans be the driving force of stocking the market?

Look at my storage Zoom. I want to sell those Kains. I'm not able to sell them now, I won't be able to sell them when they got x5 lives.

With each population influx, POE restocked our closest market hub in Tellesis and it was always good selling as long as the population influx lasted.

With today's RNG missions it's easier for newbies to make monies, almost as good as the Golden Triangle days.

Field rescue is a huge gamechanging feature, even more so then unlocking Beta 1 terminals, perhaps it's trying to solve a problem that will already be solved by the MANY features you've planned and already started implementing? Let's see how the metagame evolves for a month!

59 (edited by Celebro 2015-07-29 17:24:45)

Re: Field rescue discussion

Reducing the materials required for items and bots, along with reduction from several different sources to build the most basic gear, will have the same effect, whilst reducing the value of stocks Vet players have.

Closes player gap, less hardcore.


Edit: Most of us humans have this ability called empathy, don't assume all replies and ideas by vets are biased. tongue

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Field rescue discussion

Celebro wrote:

Reducing the materials required for items and bots, along with reduction from several different sources to build the most basic gear, will have the same effect, whilst reducing the value of stocks Vet players have.

Closes player gap, less hardcore.


Edit: Most of us humans have this ability called empathy, don't assume all replies and ideas by vets are biased. tongue

Yep.  Go back to three commodity lights and assaults!

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Field rescue discussion

If the intent of this is to make the game a little easier for newer players, only works on Alpha 1&2 islands and only from PvE deaths, then I think a limited "lives" system could be a good idea.

I would suggest a 2 or 3 step system as follows:
2 Step: 1st death = 33% loss of modules & cargo, 2nd death = 66% loss, 3rd death is total death(robot/cargo/mods)
3 Step: 1st death =25%, 2nd = 50%, 3rd = 75%, 4th = done

Upon dying you revive back at the closest terminal with what remains of your bot/mods/cargo. The bot is flagged as needing repairs and cannot have mods or cargo removed from it till the repairs are done. To repair the bots I would then add the player made repair kits as someone else mentioned. These should be robot size specific & tiered to match the death percentages above. So if I'm driving a Bapho and die once I'll need to buy an assault tier 1 repair kit, which should cost roughly 33% of an assault if using the 2 step system above or 25% if 3 step.

Note: I would specifically make mission cargo immune to the % losses above, though the player would still have to repair the bot to retrieve the cargo and continue with the mission. Also if the above were implemented I'd remove player loot from dropping when killed by a npc. With the new system the Syndicate is already hauling back your remains when you die so there is nothing for a player to go back out and loot themselves and the final tier of death should be complete loss since you now have 2-3 lives. Final bot death would mean an automatic mission fail if any type of cargo hauling was required since the cargo would be destroyed with everything else on the last death.

The biggest reason I think this may be needed to help newer players is the proposed npc rework. With Alpha 2s having only red mobs soon, they are going to be much harder for players to live on comparatively. Industrial players of all types are going to be hit hardest by this. All noncombat missions will suddenly have potential combat requiring dodging reds now. Mining and harvesting will suddenly have risks where there currently are none. I started playing years ago when roaming red caravans & Observers required careful monitoring of your surroundings and running like hell from your mining op from time to time hoping the bots would pass quickly enough to get back to your can before it imploded. I did it before and I'll do it again, no biggy for me or for the game's vets.

I understand the players that say it will cut into bot sales, but quite frankly we need to retain players. You're still not going to sell any extra Kains compared to now if players are not staying and continuing to grind. A slight loss on units sold per person should be more than made up for by having more players stay in game and buying bots in the first place.

Though not specifically part of this thread's topic, some of the other ideas posted here like the production changes are good too. I'm eager to see what the Devs do with Zoom's mention of configurable stat manufacturing and loot drop changes.

Re: Field rescue discussion

You understand this just about triples the price of all moduals and bots in the game right.

Oh, no you dont.

Here is why.  Each bot, or mod will have triple its effectiveness. 

This will be THEE biggest change of the game, ever.  It completely changes what the game is about, and how it plays out.  Not to mention it makes myself, and everyone else who has played on the server three times as rich as before the change.

If you want to play around with this stuff, it needs to be in NIC value so it will DRIVE the markets.  You know, something with insurance.  But then smarter people would use the system to make nic.

I am Perpetuum.

63 (edited by Robophiliac 2015-08-05 02:17:46)

Re: Field rescue discussion

I understand your point, though a bit exaggerated. How often really is a vet dying to pve on Alphas?

Make it a one time life with 50% loss on cargo & mods over T1. Maybe even limit it to assaults & smaller. If you step into a mech you should have enough game play in to know how to recover from there.

Edit: You can also set a EP cap on it. Once a player reaches a preset total EP value they are no longer offered Syndicate protection. This way it would only help newer players to the game.

64 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2015-08-05 04:24:46)

Re: Field rescue discussion

DEV Zoom wrote:

Yeah that's the problem here. This feature isn't really meant for the veteran PvP'ers and all the feedback I can get here is from them.

Are you saying this will not be able to be used for PVP deaths?

If it can then....
The problem is veteran PVP'ers will use this just like new players will. DUH.

lol


Robophiliac wrote:

Edit: You can also set a EP cap on it. Once a player reaches a preset total EP value they are no longer offered Syndicate protection. This way it would only help newer players to the game.

the question is where is that EP cap?

How would the cap work?

would it be per account?

What about people that prefer to do indy & when it comes to pvp they still are noobs?

Would indy extensions count towards the cap?


Theres alot of problems that arise & already ive thought of a few ways to use some of these to my benefit.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Field rescue discussion

What are the Dev team's thoughts DEV Zoom?

Re: Field rescue discussion

Naismith wrote:

What are the Dev team's thoughts DEV Zoom?

You have lost your summoning ability dear glorious leader.

Also news just in, we have planted our flag on Jupiter after a successful secret mission.  Opt Success.

I am Perpetuum.

Re: Field rescue discussion

no,
Syndic is on his personal agenda,
and zoom follows Syndics suggestion to ignore those - or simply to occupied with placing question marks... sorry, Field terminals on beta islands.

fuuu

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Field rescue discussion

We still own Jupiter, try taking that way from us.

I am Perpetuum.

69 (edited by JetNexus 2015-08-07 18:16:54)

Re: Field rescue discussion

An opinion not from a vet smile

Although it might be convinient sometimes, the downsides of this, including those mentioned by vets here convinced me to not want this feature.

I'm not losing my bot often, because PvE is predictable. And anyway, it's not a problem if i will. Really. they're not so expensive. At least not Mk2...

Don't listen to the losers, this game is not difficult or hardcore too much. Really. Making a good toon in WoW or kill all people in Carmageddon takes more effort than fit a bot and figure out what module goes where...
As a newbie, i'd like to have EP faster instead of not losing bot since i'm not losing them anyway smile But again, i'm fine with EP system. I don't know, maybe i'm not crybaby enough, but everything is fine, really. Just make a good game in general, for newbs, or for vets, doesn't matter. Sometimes the long way of obtaining a veteran stuff it's much more interesting than to actually have it. Especially when it's doesn't mean grinding a lot. As i newbie i want the stupid things like aircraft, bigger bots, guns, tanks... Although i don't even have a mech on live server yet smile (not like i need it much right now) As for the feature discussed... Well, i don't think it'll make a huge difference in my game, but i see that it may not be good in my future, like the squad commander sending us to the stupid deaths, because why bother too much...

I think most of the newbies quit because they aren't see something exsiting to go for, or something worth investing time. It's not because they too stupid to understand this game or the light bots are too expensive for them. They much like the same humans as the vets, actually.

Re: Field rescue discussion

this is so mentally twisted that its hard to explain.

from any logical standpoint, you would want your players lose their robots MORE OFTEN, but don't feel downed by the loss.

instead you think about a system where you're player lose their robotes even less often, and feel even more reluctant to join PvP since you also think that its a good idea to limit the feature to PvE...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Field rescue discussion

Annihilator wrote:

instead you think about a system where you're player lose their robotes even less often, and feel even more reluctant to join PvP since you also think that its a good idea to limit the feature to PvE...


Well, exactly this^. No half measures for this idea. It's all in or nothing, I honestly think is the worst idea ever come out of the Devs.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Field rescue discussion

I have to agree with Celebro, Im not sure where this is coming from. CIR's recruiting corp had massive attrition of people quitting due to not enough content/bad PvE, we never had anyone quit because losing a robot hurt their feelings.

Re: Field rescue discussion

IMO you only really have to give new players corp PVP bots for the first few weeks after that i notice a lot of ppl tended to manage any losses without breaking a sweat.

for those first few weeks being in a corp really does help new players a lot.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Field rescue discussion

5-10M puts you in a PVP viable robot, fully fit and functional.

As an FC I'd have as many as possible in my fleet. Cram all the little newbies in.

Unfortunately all our little newbies quit because no-content/bad-graphics/bad-PvE/horrible-mining/no-point-being-on-beta. Pretty much all of them had ~10 PVP viable robots prefitted & ready to go on our home-islands.

75 (edited by Annihilator 2015-08-08 22:04:51)

Re: Field rescue discussion

Syndic, you noobies get kicked because they are spies, and then have nowhere to go, because everyone else treats them as "spies" too. wink

sarcasm aside - what does it help to know that you can get a "pvp valid robot" for 10m, when you have to grind several hours for that ONE robot that you lose with 100% chance if you face someone in his 50 million pvp valid robot.

compare that with elite dangerous, where 200Million credits Anconda pilots run or logoffski when someone with a 20M Vulture interdicts them.  Pre Missile nerf they even feared 500k credit Eagle pilots...

with "field rescue" you catch no player - those who fear their pixel losses will still fear it, even if its delayed, and those who like permadeath hardcore will avoid it because "its to soft".

I'm not making that up -> thats what you see when you look at games that actually tried that (eg. Firefall and Elite Dangerous)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear