1 (edited by Jita 2015-07-22 00:17:12)

Topic: Beta roundtable

So we had a cheeky little roundtable to try and get some clarity for the Devs and take the partisan out of the posting.

It was attended by:

Beastmode
Burial
Leary
Jita
Obi
Anni
Race Drones
Serpens
Sunny
Opium
Blindspot (who kindly recorded a copy for the devs)

Invited but couldn't attend:

Deathpaw
Zoom
Ville

Things we could agree on:

  • Beta 1 should be unlocked, not beta 2. Adding another station to Beta 2 is a 'nice to have' but not needed. This should NOT be NPC but an outpost. An NPC station would be detrimental.

  • There should be a progression in terms of reward from Alpha 1 - Beta 2

Some suggestions for this were:

  • Public Aura's for beta 1 and 2 that are progressively better

  • A steep progression of minerals with all liquids and titan taken from Alpha 1 and bigger spawns on Beta 2 than beta 1

  • Missions rewards should be linked to station ownership so that in the local area you get a progressively better boost on beta 1 and 2

  • NPC drop increase should be better for roaming spawns on Beta - change the loot tables basically

  • Station services need to be progressively better with alpha being terrribad

Another point we all agreed on:

http://i.imgur.com/N7TsO8L.png

  • this is a horror story. Highway networks, quick teleport jumps and all the speed elements in teleport layour should ONLY be between the alpha to alpha teleports and stations. Even on Alpha there should be no highways to take you to the beta entrances

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Beta roundtable

+1 great talk guys, lets get some of these things done Dev Z, and get this game back to where it should be!

Re: Beta roundtable

I said it on TS ill say it here. I think  unlocked Beta1s will be bad but at this point why not do it & see what happens

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Beta roundtable

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

I said it on TS ill say it here. I think  unlocked Beta1s will be bad but at this point why not do it & see what happens

QFT
there is nothing to lose

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Beta roundtable

Although I could not attend, I was able to listen somewhat on and off through Mancs' stream. I'd only like to say that the devblog (hopefully tomorrow) will address a lot of the mentioned issues, so let's see after that.

Anyway, happy to see players getting together and doing this, so kudos!

6 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2015-07-22 00:31:03)

Re: Beta roundtable

Forgot to say TY for all to take out some time to do this smile

Hopefully mancs remembers to post the recording smile

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Beta roundtable

-1 to beta 1s unlocked

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

8 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2015-07-22 15:51:56)

Re: Beta roundtable

After giving it more thought I feel any move to remove locking from BETA & more investigation & logical arguments need to be had to prove that it wont actually damage this aspect of the game.

Also rather than just having a straight upgrade from one island to another the other option is Side grades

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

9 (edited by Annihilator 2015-07-22 21:26:21)

Re: Beta roundtable

after one day, the thing i remember from all that talking:

not everyone wants the station locks gone - i feel there is a majority that agree's that no corp or alliance should be able to lock down unlimited outposts, and would prefer to have mechanics that would allow a corp to only lock down a limited number, with increasing difficulty, and with mechanics to prevent alt-corps to bypass that.

zoom is increasing the nic-rewards on beta almost exponentially -> imho a station lock should cost you really lots of NIC, the more you stations you lock, the more corp storages you install, the cost should explode exponentially too.

since the only "risk" everyone talked about, whas the one provided by hostile player activities, security should cost you, what all you beta owners already tell is "worthless", aka NIC

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Beta roundtable

Annihilator wrote:

after one day, the thing i remember from all that talking:

not everyone wants the station locks gone - i feel there is a majority that agree's that no corp or alliance should be able to lock down unlimited outposts, and would prefer to have mechanics that would allow a corp to only lock down a limited number, with increasing difficulty, and with mechanics to prevent alt-corps to bypass that.

zoom is increasing the nic-rewards on beta almost exponentially -> imho a station lock should cost you really lots of NIC, the more you stations you lock, the more corp storages you install, the cost should explode exponentially too.

since the only "risk" everyone talked about, whas the one provided by hostile player activities, security should cost you, what all you beta owners already tell is "worthless", aka NIC

Holy ***, I think Anni just solved the issue!

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Beta roundtable

btw, one thing that has always been neglected throughout the history of the game, and by the round table yesterday:

Jita is a fan of vertical progression. most talkers yesterday agreed on that system.
if group A has moved up to paradise, where milk and honey flows... what reason do they have to interact with group B except EPEEN?
or in other words, why should i risk my assets to create the risk for someone who moved into the space where he gets reward for that risk, that doesn't exist if i won't go there?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

12 (edited by Naismith 2015-07-22 22:57:35)

Re: Beta roundtable

DEV Zoom wrote:

Although I could not attend, I was able to listen somewhat on and off through Mancs' stream. I'd only like to say that the devblog (hopefully tomorrow) will address a lot of the mentioned issues, so let's see after that.

Anyway, happy to see players getting together and doing this, so kudos!

7/10 people in that list are JOKE members or affiliates like Anni.

You listened to an Alpha based corp chorus together in tune to the script.

Whatever it was, it wasnt a Beta "roundtable".

Re: Beta roundtable

Naismith wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

Although I could not attend, I was able to listen somewhat on and off through Mancs' stream. I'd only like to say that the devblog (hopefully tomorrow) will address a lot of the mentioned issues, so let's see after that.

Anyway, happy to see players getting together and doing this, so kudos!

7/10 people in that list are JOKE members or affiliates like Anni.

You listened to an Alpha based corp chorus together in tune to the script.

Whatever it was, it wasnt a Beta "roundtable".

This is true & i think after we see this dev blog it would be a good time to have another meeting but this time get a better coverage of voices & ideas / input

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Beta roundtable

Naismith wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

Although I could not attend, I was able to listen somewhat on and off through Mancs' stream. I'd only like to say that the devblog (hopefully tomorrow) will address a lot of the mentioned issues, so let's see after that.

Anyway, happy to see players getting together and doing this, so kudos!

7/10 people in that list are JOKE members or affiliates like Anni.

You listened to an Alpha based corp chorus together in tune to the script.

Whatever it was, it wasnt a Beta "roundtable".


Firstly Syndic, we have all been at one stage living on Beta and Gamma so your argument is moot.

On a final note I really don't know why you care so much, you can go get a Beta 2 and gather your pets, but my guess is you like to control the whole server, but these changes will make it much harder which on it self justifies the changes proposed.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Beta roundtable

As previously said by me.

Lets see what happenes after spark removal first.

Make Alpha 1 > Beta 2 increas rewards, I dont think the bigger field is enough incentives make the "yields" better. And maybe some areas "free" Noralgis or something more interesting things.

Also DO NOT FORGET: field terminals on the way! You can refit, and store there assets!

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

16 (edited by Blocker 2015-07-23 07:57:21)

Re: Beta roundtable

Celebro wrote:

<snip>
On a final note I really don't know why you care so much, you can go get a Beta 2 and gather your pets, but my guess is you like to control the whole server, but these changes will make it much harder which on it self justifies the changes proposed.

Well to be honest it won't make it harder, but it may mean more work. Consider this, with only 3 actual perp accounts you can have 9 separate characters, therefore you could place one character in each beta 1 station if they were all unlocked. Now just a bit of time with boosters to get that EP up and get the members of your corp to have a second and third account and do the same and whammo, instant gank squad/force projection at any beta 1 station.

So you need to either add more open outposts or reduce the number of characters per account. You choose.. This is just hypothetical as I expect most corps would not do this, but some maybe would, so it's a scenario that could happen.

[edited for my "old person's" math errors, plus it's been a long day]
[edit 2] Gah, there's 4 outposts in total on each beta 1 island so it would take 4 accounts, this is maybe not realistic, so my post is potentially pointless.. Please disregard....

Re: Beta roundtable

Blocker wrote:
Celebro wrote:

<snip>
On a final note I really don't know why you care so much, you can go get a Beta 2 and gather your pets, but my guess is you like to control the whole server, but these changes will make it much harder which on it self justifies the changes proposed.

Well to be honest it won't make it harder, but it may mean more work. Consider this, with only 3 actual perp accounts you can have 9 separate characters, therefore you could place one character in each beta 1 station if they were all unlocked. Now just a bit of time with boosters to get that EP up and get the members of your corp to have a second and third account and do the same and whammo, instant gank squad/force projection at any beta 1 station.

So you need to either add more open outposts or reduce the number of characters per account. You choose.. This is just hypothetical as I expect most corps would not do this, but some maybe would, so it's a scenario that could happen.

[edited for my "old person's" math errors, plus it's been a long day]
[edit 2] Gah, there's 4 outposts in total on each beta 1 island so it would take 4 accounts, this is maybe not realistic, so my post is potentially pointless.. Please disregard....

Your also forgetting that you have guns too. If they wanna gank you they have to be able to deal with your defence and response. That is possible if you bring power to a point but certainly not in twelve stations at once.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Beta roundtable

So I take it this was a round table with the focus on what changes will make us return to the game vs what changes are in this games best interest? Several of you have admitted that you cant be bothered to login several times over. Zoom, you are an idiot if you listen to anyone that openly admits that they would rather be playing other games. BTW Zoom, time ditch the Cosby quote in your sig. Dont you get american news?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/07/us/bill-c … legations/

Re: Beta roundtable

At this point there is virtually no chance of another major new player influx without something dramatic getting added and that's largely out of the devs reach.

Their best hope is bringing enough old players back to have a stable player base that gives new people a game worth coming too. Whataver the method of getting there is, bringing 150 ish active people back to the game has to be the primary goal otherwise nobody new is going to buy and stay and with steams new refund option that means no more money.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Beta roundtable

What use is bringing old players back if all they do is say "Yep, game hasnt changed much since I left" and leave again.

Re: Beta roundtable

Inda wrote:

As previously said by me.

Lets see what happenes after spark removal first.

Make Alpha 1 > Beta 2 increas rewards, I dont think the bigger field is enough incentives make the "yields" better. And maybe some areas "free" Noralgis or something more interesting things.

Also DO NOT FORGET: field terminals on the way! You can refit, and store there assets!

^^ This here I think is the single best post made on the subject.

We all agreed in the meeting that many time in the past the DEVs had made massive & impactful changes to the game when smaller more measured changes should have been done.
I think in this case its well worth us the players to give the DEVs time to get to this area of the game & see how it plays out in regards to station locking

Also Inda's point about field terminals actually could have a MASSIVE impact on the ability for none station owning players / corps to benefit from using BETA.
I have already thought of a few "emergent game play" tactics this could open up.

+1 Inda

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

22 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2015-07-23 08:52:45)

Re: Beta roundtable

Jita can you ask Mancs if he can post that recording?
If he doesnt want to post on the forums then can you or even just PM me a link.
It would be good for the rest of the community to hear some of our thoughts on other subjects we talked about & maybe get further input.

Otherwise next time im recording the meeting as well smile

Thanks!

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Beta roundtable

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

Jita can you ask Mancs if he can post that recording?
If he doesnt want to post on the forums then can you or even just PM me a link.
It would be good for the rest of the community to hear some of our thoughts on other subjects we talked about & maybe get further input.

Otherwise next time im recording the meeting as well smile

Thanks!

Yeah I fully agree. I'm in the middle of a house move the next couple of days but i'll try and get on tonight and let him know ... if he doesn't read this already!

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Beta roundtable

Celebro wrote:
Naismith wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

Although I could not attend, I was able to listen somewhat on and off through Mancs' stream. I'd only like to say that the devblog (hopefully tomorrow) will address a lot of the mentioned issues, so let's see after that.

Anyway, happy to see players getting together and doing this, so kudos!

7/10 people in that list are JOKE members or affiliates like Anni.

You listened to an Alpha based corp chorus together in tune to the script.

Whatever it was, it wasnt a Beta "roundtable".


Firstly Syndic, we have all been at one stage living on Beta and Gamma so your argument is moot.

On a final note I really don't know why you care so much, you can go get a Beta 2 and gather your pets, but my guess is you like to control the whole server, but these changes will make it much harder which on it self justifies the changes proposed.

You can be butthurt about it as much as you want, but you got 3 random people into a room with 7 of your corpmates, made a nice list of what the majority agreed on and presented it as some "Beta roundtable".

That's obvious and blatant politicking to push your agenda.

25 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2015-07-23 12:13:45)

Re: Beta roundtable

Record thanks to mancs! Not sure if its the entire thing but its something! smile

http://www.twitch.tv/blindmancs/b/679471734

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue