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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

They should start selling it as a diplomacy sandbox then and see how the sales go.

227 Reply by Lemon

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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Jita wrote:

So long as your industry can get locked out of a station, nobody is going to move industry there. Fact.

Naismith wrote:

Furthermore, it forces POE to haul out our massive stockpiles out of Domhalarn, as we've been actively living there and doing industry on Beta there for a very long time, and we like our station income from our industry.

/yawn

The only bonus before beta missions to be on beta is the income back from industry from station ownership.

No farming because beacons
No full mining because alpha and gamma are safer

The list goes on

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  • CIR
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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Burial wrote:

@Ville: Doesn't make it easier to defend an outpost and it doesn't lessen the risk of getting your assets locked off in 2 days whenever a group of vets become bored, you go to holidays or say something very-very upsetting and disagreeable in public.

The bottom line is, that's not how sandboxes should behave. Sandbox MMO's should give players more freedom and choices than any other game. The only choices in Perpetuum is either live on Alpha or join an alliance.

Locking an outpost doesnt remove or delete the assets inside of it. CIR for example, has a modest stockpile of equipment and robots in every Beta station in the game.

It would appear the root of the unlocking argument is the inconvenience of the consequences for barking loudly. Zoom, if it will help you save some Dev resources we will let Joke have an outpost.

Better now? big_smile

229 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2015-07-23 22:41:21)

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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Does it mean I have to agree with everything you say now? This whole pet thing is a new thing for me. big_smile

230 Reply by Jita

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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Naismith wrote:
Burial wrote:

@Ville: Doesn't make it easier to defend an outpost and it doesn't lessen the risk of getting your assets locked off in 2 days whenever a group of vets become bored, you go to holidays or say something very-very upsetting and disagreeable in public.

The bottom line is, that's not how sandboxes should behave. Sandbox MMO's should give players more freedom and choices than any other game. The only choices in Perpetuum is either live on Alpha or join an alliance.

Locking an outpost doesnt remove or delete the assets inside of it. CIR for example, has a modest stockpile of equipment and robots in every Beta station in the game.

It would appear the root of the unlocking argument is the inconvenience of the consequences for barking loudly. Zoom, if it will help you save some Dev resources we will let Joke have an outpost.

Better now? big_smile


Just like to point this out for the old 'its two guys who dont play' arguement

http://www.perpetuum-online.com/~gargaj/

Joke are significantly more active than CIR, and we didn't try and mass quit to kill the game either.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

231 Reply by Ville

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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Jita wrote:
Naismith wrote:
Burial wrote:

@Ville: Doesn't make it easier to defend an outpost and it doesn't lessen the risk of getting your assets locked off in 2 days whenever a group of vets become bored, you go to holidays or say something very-very upsetting and disagreeable in public.

The bottom line is, that's not how sandboxes should behave. Sandbox MMO's should give players more freedom and choices than any other game. The only choices in Perpetuum is either live on Alpha or join an alliance.

Locking an outpost doesnt remove or delete the assets inside of it. CIR for example, has a modest stockpile of equipment and robots in every Beta station in the game.

It would appear the root of the unlocking argument is the inconvenience of the consequences for barking loudly. Zoom, if it will help you save some Dev resources we will let Joke have an outpost.

Better now? big_smile


Just like to point this out for the old 'its two guys who dont play' arguement

http://www.perpetuum-online.com/~gargaj/

Joke are significantly more active than CIR, and we didn't try and mass quit to kill the game either.

The forums say different.

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … e-laggers/

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232 Reply by BeastmodeGuNs (edited by BeastmodeGuNs 2015-07-24 01:59:34)

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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Ville wrote:
Jita wrote:
Naismith wrote:

Locking an outpost doesnt remove or delete the assets inside of it. CIR for example, has a modest stockpile of equipment and robots in every Beta station in the game.

It would appear the root of the unlocking argument is the inconvenience of the consequences for barking loudly. Zoom, if it will help you save some Dev resources we will let Joke have an outpost.

Better now? big_smile


Just like to point this out for the old 'its two guys who dont play' arguement

http://www.perpetuum-online.com/~gargaj/

Joke are significantly more active than CIR, and we didn't try and mass quit to kill the game either.

The forums say different.

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … e-laggers/

Hey look, one year later! Lets post in a mechanic disscussion thread with a forum thread about how a dude rage quit due to certain *** servers while said poster of post is making a dick-wad of himself just to attempt to make some self-centered point on how one dude quitting somehow equates to JOKE quitting as a whole and killing the game.

You should take T3x advice that he was constantly preaching on the forums(I dont blame him, its grudge central here) and stop using *** from a year ago or further back for epeen and trolling, because right now CIR and PHM are basiclly the ones using political bullshit in a mechanic discussion thread for personal reason A, B, C. That was then, this is now, get over it, I dont give a dang anymore, just feel like shooting when theres a chance for a nice fight, so again, get over it, leave the past in the past. (I don't care how hypocritical or raging this sounds to you, it needs to be said.)

Reading this signature fills you with determination.

233 Reply by Ville

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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

BeastmodeGuNs wrote:
Ville wrote:
Jita wrote:

Just like to point this out for the old 'its two guys who dont play' arguement

http://www.perpetuum-online.com/~gargaj/

Joke are significantly more active than CIR, and we didn't try and mass quit to kill the game either.

The forums say different.

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … e-laggers/

Hey look, one year later! Lets post in a mechanic disscussion thread with a forum thread about how a dude rage quit due to certain *** servers while said poster of post is making a dick-wad of himself just to attempt to make some self-centered point on how one dude quitting somehow equates to JOKE quitting as a whole and killing the game.

You should take T3x advice that he was constantly preaching on the forums(I dont blame him, its grudge central here) and stop using *** from a year ago or further back for epeen and trolling, because right now CIR and PHM are basiclly the ones using political bullshit in a mechanic discussion thread for personal reason A, B, C. That was then, this is now, get over it, I dont give a dang anymore, just feel like shooting when theres a chance for a nice fight, so again, get over it, leave the past in the past. (I don't care how hypocritical or raging this sounds to you, it needs to be said.)

CALM DOWN BOBO CALM DOWN, I was just poking Jita in the side...

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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

When my guys have something to do in-game, they will get a ping about it. smile

235 Reply by Jita

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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Ville wrote:
BeastmodeGuNs wrote:
Ville wrote:

The forums say different.

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … e-laggers/

Hey look, one year later! Lets post in a mechanic disscussion thread with a forum thread about how a dude rage quit due to certain *** servers while said poster of post is making a dick-wad of himself just to attempt to make some self-centered point on how one dude quitting somehow equates to JOKE quitting as a whole and killing the game.

You should take T3x advice that he was constantly preaching on the forums(I dont blame him, its grudge central here) and stop using *** from a year ago or further back for epeen and trolling, because right now CIR and PHM are basiclly the ones using political bullshit in a mechanic discussion thread for personal reason A, B, C. That was then, this is now, get over it, I dont give a dang anymore, just feel like shooting when theres a chance for a nice fight, so again, get over it, leave the past in the past. (I don't care how hypocritical or raging this sounds to you, it needs to be said.)

CALM DOWN BOBO CALM DOWN, I was just poking Jita in the side...

In a features and discussion thread. You should leave the stupid politics to in game or coperation discussions and actually work together for quality improvements.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

236 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2015-07-24 10:51:44)

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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

If the only issue is the target group for unlocked outposts would get ganked and hellcamped into a station, let's place police towers under unlocked Beta 1 outposts. cool

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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Zoom could you share the Devs thoughts on two questions;

- Assuming youre a corp leader, why would you want to capture a Beta outpost?
- Assuming youre a corp leader and Beta stations get unlocked, why would you want to make the extra effort to capture a Beta outpost?

I'm honestly curious.

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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Zoom? Did you have a heart attack?

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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Not all of these are true yet, but:
1. Staging for epriton mining or gamma, better facilities, better missions (and through better token income and higher standing levels, quicker or better access to token shop items), beta-only rewards (SAP loot, supply drops as per the blog), bragging rights
2. Basically all of the above plus station income

But I'd like to state again that I'm not convinced about removing outpost locking, as people have pointed out the griefing potential is pretty high.

240 Reply by Jita

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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

DEV Zoom wrote:

Not all of these are true yet, but:
1. Staging for epriton mining or gamma, better facilities, better missions (and through better token income and higher standing levels, quicker or better access to token shop items), beta-only rewards (SAP loot, supply drops as per the blog), bragging rights
2. Basically all of the above plus station income

But I'd like to state again that I'm not convinced about removing outpost locking, as people have pointed out the griefing potential is pretty high.

So fix the griefing. You can't balance the game on some autists who don't care if people quit. Those anti briefing changes can be done in like two weeks.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

I like the idea of removing terminal chats though.

242 Reply by Ville

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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

DEV Zoom wrote:

Not all of these are true yet, but:
1. Staging for epriton mining or gamma, better facilities, better missions (and through better token income and higher standing levels, quicker or better access to token shop items), beta-only rewards (SAP loot, supply drops as per the blog), bragging rights
2. Basically all of the above plus station income

But I'd like to state again that I'm not convinced about removing outpost locking, as people have pointed out the griefing potential is pretty high.

Zoom, I can do all of those things you mentioned by Alpha.

I can jump into an unscouted gate and go mine epriton and beacon out when I want, There aren't better facilities all around on Beta.  I have access to missions out of the npc terminals and I can do SAPs from Alpha all day long.

The only thing I can't is bragging rights.

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243 Reply by Ville

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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

DEV Zoom wrote:

I like the idea of removing terminal chats though.

Maybe on Beta, I think it is needed on Alpha(Player emersion feels like a mmo!), oh!!

Can we change the topic in our OWN terminals in terminal chat?????

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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

DEV Zoom wrote:

I like the idea of removing terminal chats though.

Griefing would be reduced considerably if no-one can safely watch 24/7 when people are using the outpost. Honestly, if griefing is the only opposing argument for Open Betas then let's work on reducing it. It happens regardless of locks most of the time anyway.

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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Zoom, are you still playing or following E:D while working on all this stuff here? (asking because of a related suggestion)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Annihilator wrote:

Zoom, are you still playing or following E:D while working on all this stuff here? (asking because of a related suggestion)

I only have time to skim the newsletters nowadays.

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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

DEV Zoom wrote:

Not all of these are true yet, but:
1. Staging for epriton mining or gamma, better facilities, better missions (and through better token income and higher standing levels, quicker or better access to token shop items), beta-only rewards (SAP loot, supply drops as per the blog), bragging rights
2. Basically all of the above plus station income

But I'd like to state again that I'm not convinced about removing outpost locking, as people have pointed out the griefing potential is pretty high.

Thanks for answering Zoom!

Aside from staging for epriton mining and gamma, how will better missions come into the equation? What is your vision for making stations worth owning, balancing the risk of losing territory with the reward of owning territory?

I wouldn't be convinced either TBH, the arguments in favor largely revolve around an excuse to live on Beta and blueball any fights that might not be 100% sure wins.

If you unlock any outposts, you might consider stopping them being capturable by player-corporations and their SAP's should be discontinued (to prevent easy ninja-SAP-farming with an alt). Just empty NPC terminals with same facility efficiency like TMB/ICSB/ASB.

The "griefing potential" honestly can't even be called griefing, if the station is open there's nothing inherently wrong with Alliance A moving a portion of their accounts or all of their combat accounts into Corporation B's homebase and taking it over. It's a sound strategy when you have a superior force at your disposal, and I'm sure everyone who can will be using it in some degree.

I could argue thats one of the many reasons station locks were implemented in the first place (Zoom, do you remember how quickly F-Navy quit the game en-masse because Styx brought M2S to live in Brightstone? 3 days!), but ultimately it's the Dev's choice what is allowed.

I personally am not looking forward at all to going back to those days of camping someone's home-base until they move elsewhere or go to Alpha.

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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Naismith wrote:

Aside from staging for epriton mining and gamma, how will better missions come into the equation? What is your vision for making stations worth owning, balancing the risk of losing territory with the reward of owning territory?

As I explained above, but maybe I wasn't clear enough, one possibility is to make the highest available mission levels beta outpost only, while putting items into the token shop that can only be purchased with a minimum standing that only those level missions allow to achieve.

Obviously the simpler solution would be to add level specific item rewards directly to the missions, but the token shop method allows to make choices.

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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Are you planning to tweak the reward (thus incentive) for owning a lockable Beta outpost by maybe adding a modifier for outpost owners for mission reward or Obi's field terminal tax idea maybe?

I might be a bit selfish here but for a long time I've wanted a reason to cultivate a Beta-side NRDS market hub, but there was never any reason to do so. With Obi's idea about field terminal tax coming to the corp controlling the outpost of the sector, I could definitely see a big fat reason to a) capture an outpost b) stimulate random people to come live there c) police the sector.

A lot of effort with a lot of potential reward. I'm sure someone wouldn't like it and would come kill random people, which generates content in itself.

It would be beneficial if they didn't have the availability to undock from my home-base with impunity though, there's an excellent SAP mechanic in place that allows anyone to unlock an outpost in a day or two assuming we win every fight.

  • CIR
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Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

I know everyone including me is fawning over the other blog stuff, but this is still a highly gamebreaking topic that deserves more attention and more dialogue with the Devs.

Talk to us Zoom.