Re: Random assignments testing

It's not that it's not finished, but we haven't had a go at NPC balance yet, at all.

NPCs spawning on top of you is something that we're fixing now.

Re: Random assignments testing

oh, and i thought the agressive "drone" was just my imagination.

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Re: Random assignments testing

Busy day:

  • *fixed* Fixed spawn NPCs on NV are still dropping the items for the old assignments.

  • *fixed* Despawn timer for assignment NPCs might be too long now. - Set to 15 minutes, which is reset when you aggro them.

  • *fixed* Mass-aborting assignments in a squad might be used for griefing. - Fixed by giving negative relations (for aborting) and bonuslevel decrease only to the assignment owner.

  • Assignment bonuslevel increase is now also given for available squad members.

  • Info for old assignments was not showing enclosed items.

  • Increased the radius where assignment NPCs are triggered - it's now set to 300m. (However, this is not true for hidden triggers.)

  • If NPCs despawn while the assignment is running, the assignment will be automatically aborted. (This currently throws an "unknown error" fyi.)

  • Improved orange NPC aggro behavior, the whole group will now aggro when you attack one, but this still only works for same type NPCs (so mostly just in the case of fixed spawns). Still working on making this work for mixed groups too. UPDATE: see below.

  • Fixed the label chaos on the map, now they appear based on zoom level.

  • Added tooltips for the field terminal's 3 buttons.

  • Added name tooltip and rightclick info for the item reward icons in the assignment success window, and also fixed the negative relation icon being clipped there.

  • Added an "(Estimated)" label for the NIC reward in random assignment infos.

  • Fixed the tint color of field terminals.

  • Teleports on New Virginia have proper collision now.

Re: Random assignments testing

Looks like we were able to do a quick hack for the orange NPC aggro after all, but it works only for random assignment NPC groups.

So to summarize:
1. For static orange spawns, group aggro will work for same type NPCs.
2. For assignment NPCs, group aggro should work for the whole group.

Both cases require that the NPCs see you (=sensor range).

Re: Random assignments testing

DEV Zoom wrote:

Looks like we were able to do a quick hack for the orange NPC aggro after all, but it works only for random assignment NPC groups.

So to summarize:
1. For static orange spawns, group aggro will work for same type NPCs.
2. For assignment NPCs, group aggro should work for the whole group.

Both cases require that the NPCs see you (=sensor range).

Can you explain this in terms us simple folk can understand?

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Re: Random assignments testing

Ville wrote:

Can you explain this in terms us simple folk can understand?

Static orange spawns: you shooty-shooty one npc, same kind buddies come and shooty you.
Random missions: you shooty-shooty one npc, whole group comes to kick your butt.

Re: Random assignments testing

DEV Zoom wrote:
Ville wrote:

Can you explain this in terms us simple folk can understand?

Static orange spawns: you shooty-shooty one npc, same kind buddies come and shooty you.
Random missions: you shooty-shooty one npc, whole group comes to kick your butt.

Good change. This should help prevent multi spawning for farming purposes.

My only other concern is squad missions, I would be very wary of how many tokens can enter the game. Is there any way of making mission rewards dynamic so that if one type in one place is used a lot comparatively it lowers the reward?

Re: Random assignments testing

Tonnik wrote:

My only other concern is squad missions, I would be very wary of how many tokens can enter the game. Is there any way of making mission rewards dynamic so that if one type in one place is used a lot comparatively it lowers the reward?

Maybe this wasn't clear, but tokens are only awarded for the assignment owner (and does not scale with squad size). Only NIC and relation are squad-wide rewards.

Re: Random assignments testing

DEV Zoom wrote:
Tonnik wrote:

My only other concern is squad missions, I would be very wary of how many tokens can enter the game. Is there any way of making mission rewards dynamic so that if one type in one place is used a lot comparatively it lowers the reward?

Maybe this wasn't clear, but tokens are only awarded for the assignment owner (and does not scale with squad size). Only NIC and relation are squad-wide rewards.

But I could complete some missions faster with multiple alts in a squad. The concern is that this could generate a comparatively high amount. By having the mission rewards auto balance you can prevent that.

If one type of mission in one location is getting significantly more action than others then that should devalue and redistribute that value to other locations. Just like that got girl who gets less attractive the more you bang her making her friends comparatively better looking.

Re: Random assignments testing

There will be inevitably locations more popular than others, due to landscape, structure locations, and so on. We have made statistical tools already that can tell us a lot about what players do with random missions. But even manually it will be hard to decide what is a natural spike and normal usage, and what could be a problem on long term. So it would be even harder to program watchdogs for this if you don't know what to set the alarm for. Obviously big spikes will be easy to see even so.

Re: Random assignments testing

kinda agree with jita here. those level 1 missions i have done, had really short distances and there was no repeat limit.

I could imagine someone coding a bot for three accounts, doing those lvl1 missions all day long on three islands (the difficulty increase for 3 agent-squad is manageable for a single mk2 assault.
(if you ask why three? to keep the relation level for all three factions at lvl1 for all three agents)

btw, with negative relation settings back, i think we need some mechanics in place to recover from highly negative standings without beeing forced to "leech" in squad or run lvl0 missions forever. (eg. tedious or hard missions with higher reputation gain/loss for agents with negative rep)

oh, and not to forget... you should also make negative standings have some consequences aside from availiable missions, for combat-only agents. (eg. taxes and market limits for infinite offers). But this could be thought off after the mission system works.

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62 (edited by DEV Zoom 2015-06-02 12:30:58)

Re: Random assignments testing

Relations won't go below zero if I'm right. (If not we'll make it so.)

Also, coding a proper bot that handles NPCs like a boss and does all the different combat mission templates would be pretty awesome I'd say. I think people assume a bit too much in this regard.

Re: Random assignments testing

After testing the new mission system I can say I am very pleased. smile

Good work!

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64 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2015-06-02 14:00:55)

Re: Random assignments testing

DEV Zoom wrote:

Relations won't go below zero if I'm right. (If not we'll make it so.)

Also, coding a proper bot that handles NPCs like a boss and does all the different combat mission templates would be pretty awesome I'd say. I think people assume a bit too much in this regard.

If some one does you should hire them smile

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Re: Random assignments testing

I strongly dislike the 5 assignment limit per terminal, that it going to make for a lot more running around to grab all your loot. 

Anyone notice that one terminal seems to have easier assignments then the other continuously?  It could be just be my luck.

-Ensi

Re: Random assignments testing

DEV Zoom wrote:

There will be inevitably locations more popular than others, due to landscape, structure locations, and so on. We have made statistical tools already that can tell us a lot about what players do with random missions. But even manually it will be hard to decide what is a natural spike and normal usage, and what could be a problem on long term. So it would be even harder to program watchdogs for this if you don't know what to set the alarm for. Obviously big spikes will be easy to see even so.

All you would need to do is build in a table that counts the number of times a mission has been done. It then works that out as a percentage of total missions done. If there's ten missions and this mission is done 20% of the time missions are done it uses a multiplier in the mission reward to reduce the payout. I would suggest 50% of payout be related to this.

Therefore in this case 20% would be double the base line reducing multiplier payout by 50% and total payout by 25%.

In an ideal world this multiplier would also impact the mission rats drop of plasma and mods, I can however see this being a bit more work as you would need mission specific rats in the loot tables.

The point of this is missions would self balance. You would never have the situation found in the last mission system where one specific kind of mission far outweighs another. With the best will in the world Zoom, you don't know what this mission system is capable of producing from a nic per hour basis and historically if people find a way to maximise then they will. It's up to the mechanics to be built to respond to that.

67 (edited by Jasdemi 2015-06-02 15:54:53)

Re: Random assignments testing

* Lock status icons on the landmarks window are overlapped by objective icons. Can't tell anymore if target is locked or not. Here's a comparison: http://i.imgur.com/Y69F2A7.png

* Transport mission objectives are all displayed at once. Wasn't like that when I last tested them. http://i.imgur.com/14YZIxu.png

+1 for Jitas suggestion. It should be encouraged to run all field terminals, not just the ones with best terrain or closest objective locations.

68 (edited by DEV Zoom 2015-06-02 16:26:05)

Re: Random assignments testing

Jasdemi wrote:

* Lock status icons on the landmarks window are overlapped by objective icons. Can't tell anymore if target is locked or not. Here's a comparison: http://i.imgur.com/Y69F2A7.png

I'm aware of that, I just don't know the solution yet.

Jasdemi wrote:

* Transport mission objectives are all displayed at once. Wasn't like that when I last tested them. http://i.imgur.com/14YZIxu.png

This is an intended change. Previously it wasn't possible to partially complete objectives* because it only advanced to the next one when you took all of the items from the supply. Also they can be done in squads now, I mean properly.

*In case you can't fit all of them into your cargo.

69 (edited by Inda 2015-06-02 17:08:53)

Re: Random assignments testing

NPC, under the terrain, that happened 2 times to me but not very often.

So I also cant finish the mission, bacuse I cant shoot back. It still shoot under the "hood".

1182,824 the spawnning place

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Re: Random assignments testing

Inda wrote:

NPC, under the terrain, that happened 2 times to me but not very often.

So I also cant finish the mission, bacuse I cant shoot back. It still shoot under the "hood".

1182,824 the spawnning place

Weird. I went in to the coords, found one happy tagged Castel running around normally.

Re: Random assignments testing

Also given the amount of historical token dodgyness can we have a multiplier on future token rewards and costs to make current stockpiles worth less and future PVE worth doing. Maybe increase all token costs and rewards by a factor of ten - twenty.

Re: Random assignments testing

Tonnik wrote:

Also given the amount of historical token dodgyness can we have a multiplier on future token rewards and costs to make current stockpiles worth less and future PVE worth doing. Maybe increase all token costs and rewards by a factor of ten - twenty.

nah, just do it same way it was meant to happen with research kernels... turn existing tokens into something less worth.
like adding new "high reputation tokens" big_smile

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Re: Random assignments testing

Tonnik wrote:

Also given the amount of historical token dodgyness can we have a multiplier on future token rewards and costs to make current stockpiles worth less and future PVE worth doing. Maybe increase all token costs and rewards by a factor of ten - twenty.

Yes, we'll consider this before putting in the new items.

Re: Random assignments testing

Annihilator wrote:
Tonnik wrote:

Also given the amount of historical token dodgyness can we have a multiplier on future token rewards and costs to make current stockpiles worth less and future PVE worth doing. Maybe increase all token costs and rewards by a factor of ten - twenty.

nah, just do it same way it was meant to happen with research kernels... turn existing tokens into something less worth.
like adding new "high reputation tokens" big_smile

I don't think that's really an issue.  I'm imagining the cost for goods will be very steep.

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Re: Random assignments testing

Could we have a filter NPC option for Mission/tagged npc only in landmarks, there's so many npcs its kind of mind boggling.

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