Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

well Ive posted before about how they should rework their tier system.

They currently have

Syntec
Flawed
Tech 1
Tech 2
Ruby Mercenary
Tech 2 proto
Niani
Tech 3
Tech 3 proto
Tech 4
Ruby Mercenary Commander
Tier 4 proto

Now of these which are actually used? I suggested that this is changed to:

Syntec
Tech 1
Tech 2
Tech 2 proto
Tech 3
Tech 3 proto
Tech 4
Tech 4 proto
Niani
Niani Commander
Ruby Mercenary
Ruby Mercenary Commander

and of course reduce the loot drops making the higher tiers increasingly rare.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

t2+ is in deed a bit useless i guess. too rare and not dood enough for use if t4 is better. and way to rare for speed fits in pvp.

t4+ is way too rare. i havent got my hands on a full set for a pve mesmer. and that in ages...

and t3- is a bit too special as better speed fitting then t2... especially because you usually dont get the items droped that are needed. and items that are not needed are stockpiling while important items are too rare...

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

I would for sure change the loot tables to make nianni and nianni commander attainable if you rat a lot. The mercenary should be like officer drops in eve.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

Loot will most likely be reworked when we replace the fixed spawns with roaming ones, but that still leaves the question of the token shop.

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

I think tokens should be able to buy the niani gear thats the next two tiers up from t4 making them expensive but atainable. The commander stuff would only be rare drop and therefore very expensive.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

31 (edited by Celebro 2015-03-28 12:54:33)

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

DEV Zoom wrote:

Loot will most likely be reworked when we replace the fixed spawns with roaming ones, but that still leaves the question of the token shop.

Certainly a marked improvement on the assignment system. Regarding the token shop; it's a shop, I want to know what I am spending my tokens on, so I would rather have a need to spend an obsurd amount of tokens to get what I want, rather than being a random thing.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

Celebro wrote:

Certainly a marked improvement on the assignment system. Regarding the token shop; it's a shop, I want to know what I am spending my tokens on, so I would rather have a need to spend an obsurd amount of tokens to get what I want, rather than being a random thing.

How about both then? Lottery items for cheapish, and direct purchases for absurd amounts.

33 (edited by Jita 2015-03-28 13:04:36)

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

DEV Zoom wrote:
Celebro wrote:

Certainly a marked improvement on the assignment system. Regarding the token shop; it's a shop, I want to know what I am spending my tokens on, so I would rather have a need to spend an obsurd amount of tokens to get what I want, rather than being a random thing.

How about both then? Lottery items for cheapish, and direct purchases for absurd amounts.

Nothing wrong with that

This stuff needs to drop from the rats themselves though, not just from the shop

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

i agree with jita on this.

the "lottery" items should be droped on the npcs.

and you should be able to buy your t4+ for tokens on the shop. there also should be some improved versions of bots for pve.. damn expensive but ppl need a goal where they can work to.
and having a new variant of some bots with a new color and improved pve stats should not bethat hard to do. same models... ...
ppl dont want to wait ages just to get their guns and tuners and whatever they need for pve. if its random then you always get the stuff thatyou dont want. you should be able to buy them when you want/can afford it...

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

i just want to hint on the fact that you need NIC sinks, not token sinks.
When you limit the accessability of the higher grade syndicate shop items to minimum relation with certain faction - why do you need a second currency?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

36 (edited by Jita 2015-03-28 13:51:27)

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

Which is why they need mercenary etc heavies in the token shop too, as well as reworking proto bots so that they are actually used instead of never used

edit: Thats a good point Anni, perhaps add a nic and token cost for things and not just tokens?

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

37 (edited by Burial 2015-03-28 14:54:32)

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

DEV Zoom wrote:
Celebro wrote:

Certainly a marked improvement on the assignment system. Regarding the token shop; it's a shop, I want to know what I am spending my tokens on, so I would rather have a need to spend an obsurd amount of tokens to get what I want, rather than being a random thing.

How about both then? Lottery items for cheapish, and direct purchases for absurd amounts.

That's the best solution. Option for skipping the frustrating RNG by buying the item directly while also leaving the door open for more profit via selling the box loot on the market.

@Zoom: About relation penalties, will it be possible to earn high relations with all of the factions or just one/two?

Jita wrote:

...
edit: Thats a good point Anni, perhaps add a nic and token cost for things and not just tokens?

To be honest, with the current state of the economy, everything that could have NIC cost should have NIC cost.

Jita wrote:

I suggested that this is changed to:

Syntec
Tech 1
Tech 2
Tech 2 proto
Tech 3
Tech 3 proto
Tech 4
Tech 4 proto
Niani
Niani Commander
Ruby Mercenary
Ruby Mercenary Commander

I'd remove all the superfluous tech levels that serve only as stepping stones. Could just be T1, T2, X, T3, Y with the appropriate prototypes techs. T1 for equipment with ABC minerals, T2 adds Epriton and T3 adds Colixum. The X and Y would be the token shop/rare drop equipment.

In fact, I would even make upgrading T2 and T3 easier by requiring only lower tech item and Epriton/Colixum without additional need of ABC minerals. That would likely benefit Alpha production since Beta/Gamma players could just import the lower tech gear instead of minerals. Nice dream.

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

how about a bounty on rare rats in the form of a few tokens when you kill the mighty/dark/yellowthing as rock paper scissors. Ex - kill the yellow rare spawn and get green tokens, kill the green and you get blue and kill blue and you get yellow?

maybe its completely trash but I would rather roam to hunt rare npcs than do missions to get tokens. It would also give me a reason to kill those 5star dark searing flame mesmers and might gropho's to get a dozen tokens or more.

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

This thread is full of partisan support and constructive criticism. Just wanna say these changes look more pleasing than they sounded before. Keep up the good work and just try to keep the monthly updates, blogs, and push the content. Let us test it on the test server even if you think its broken. Especially those npc battles. If you get NPC battles established I swear I'll buy three more accounts and boost them all. Im not a huge fan of pve but I loved incursions in eve and this seems similar but so much better. Why? Because its perpetuum and has mechs.

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

Annihilator wrote:

i just want to hint on the fact that you need NIC sinks, not token sinks.
When you limit the accessability of the higher grade syndicate shop items to minimum relation with certain faction - why do you need a second currency?

They could still offer some good items that requires both NIC and tokens too.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

Jita wrote:

edit: Thats a good point Anni, perhaps add a nic and token cost for things and not just tokens?

hmm I missed that tongue

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

I belive T4+ should only come from beacons make them rare and hard to get..... Maybe implement a T4- that is the fitting skills of T4 just a little better but not as good as T4+.  Also if you're worried about people flooding the market how about making the item un-tradable.  This will work if you're in squad and an npc drops something.  Only the people present can pick it up.  BTW i would like to see a SuperDuperMegaladon NPC that requires 10 people to be organized.  Maybe drop a good amount of tokens worth the peoples time.  OR maybe a new set of beacon drops from only the mission system obviously bound only the person that scooped the loot from the npc kill.  Idk mabe i'm too much of an MMORPG party system kinda guy.

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

Jita and Celebro - the point is that the tokens are superfluous when you already have
1. currency
2. reputation

make the reputation dynamic instead static and you don't need an additional currency per faction or additional currency drops from npcs as Gwyndor suggests.

on the matter of mission goals - they should resolve around the 6(+1) factions ingame, and affect a background relation simulation (similar to the one in ED). In a less abstract form:

  • Production Missions
    These missions should resolve around bulding items for the NPC market seeds, or building maintenance.
    Example:
    Asintec corp asks you to build 20 Prometheus robots using a CT they hand you out that only lasts for 20 cycles.
    At the end you will get a little less NIC then the NPC seed worth of the bots, but reputation gain ontop. Alternatively you can use your own CT and build the bots much cheaper if your extensions allow you and get extra credits (but you have to build them, not just use stocked or bought ones)

  • Combat missions
    ask you to kill another factions NPC Roaming forces
    these will result in the other factions standing towards your contractor also fall and will generate countermissions

  • ...

i just don't see any use for additional tokens aside from something similar to ED's bounty tokens that you get for killing wanted or in contributing in conflict zones. (also, replacing plasma as "loot" drop)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

One of the major problems I see atm with assignments is that you need to fullfill an assignment within ~1h before the last in order to get bonus. This 1h is usually very easy for simple assignments and most combat assignments, but in several cases next to impossible on higher tier indu assignments.

Do you have taken this into account?

And why is every assignment automatically squad assignment with all pro and con? Do you intend to test yourself the behavior or finishing 3 assignments within 1 min in a squad of 50 agents? In former times finishing squad assignments could lead to mass lag in order of minutes when squad size was very large.

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

I really like the discussion with the token shop.  I like aids dropping from npc a and direct buy for large token amounts for t4+ and t2+.  I REALLY think it would stimulate tokens!

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

One other thing that could be quite easy to implement on field terminals, is the ability to create custom transport assignments so if you out on the field you could announce publicly a need for more charges/ammo or items for a fee.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

Celebro wrote:

One other thing that could be quite easy to implement on field terminals, is the ability to create custom transport assignments so if you out on the field you could announce publicly a need for more charges/ammo or items for a fee.

this would need the player2player trade window working on terrain too.

Goffer wrote:

And why is every assignment automatically squad assignment with all pro and con? Do you intend to test yourself the behavior or finishing 3 assignments within 1 min in a squad of 50 agents? In former times finishing squad assignments could lead to mass lag in order of minutes when squad size was very large.

good point, maybe its also time to get rid of 200+ "Squads"

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

Burial wrote:

@Zoom: About relation penalties, will it be possible to earn high relations with all of the factions or just one/two?

Relation penalties are always lower than relation rewards, so yes that will be possible.

Goffer wrote:

And why is every assignment automatically squad assignment with all pro and con? Do you intend to test yourself the behavior or finishing 3 assignments within 1 min in a squad of 50 agents? In former times finishing squad assignments could lead to mass lag in order of minutes when squad size was very large.

This was a design decision an we thought this way is the more streamlined one. It's very dynamic and you don't have to worry mid-assignment whether you requested it for a squad or not when your buddy comes around. If you want to do them alone, simply leave your squad for that time.

And while assignment difficulty and rewards are affected by squad size, this effect stops increasing after a certain number (I think we have it at 10 members currently).

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

how do the rewards scale with more people in the squad (up to 10 that is)

Re: New devblog: Random assignments - The final details

I'm happy to see some progress smile
Especially with PvE big_smile