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Topic: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

We've always said there's not enough content on alpha.  I propose this idea.

Add all type of sap mechanics to alpha terminals.  These saps control the island auras.  Each sap is weighted to their respective counterpart.

The island stability is maxed out at 1000.

At 1000 there could be an engineering bonus and an industrial bonus upto 20-50%. Then in increments that scale with stability.  The saps can drop a can with a 1/10th of the loot as beta.

You can make a level 1 mission to participate in island stability.  It's not a random mission it's static.! Then you have an interactive landmark become active once a sap is active on alpha.  This mission could grant a lot of tokens.

This helps alpha players get accustomed to beta outpost control.  It creates content.

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
  • ETHOS
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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

Definately something to consider.

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18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD
  • JOKE
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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

Sounds like a good idea.

What would be nice is having something like this that allows you to pick a faction and then the faction would defend that stability or increase that stability with limited PvP flags (maybe an Alpha 2 becomes vulnerable for a couple of hours a day to those who are connected to the faction). Be a cross between factional warfare and war zones in archage.

Since the second point would take six months go with the OP as a start, its a decent idea.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

Anything that buffs Alpha mining/farming botters is an incredibly bad idea.

Remove all liquid ores and static NPC spawns from Alpha then this becomes a good idea. smile

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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

Syndic wrote:

Anything that buffs Alpha mining/farming botters is an incredibly bad idea.

Remove all liquid ores and static NPC spawns from Alpha then this becomes a good idea. smile

Remember who's fault it was we don't have red mobs?

Bring back red mobs on Alpha including roaming ones and you stop botters and afk miners. If people abuse the mechanics to be an idiot again just ban them like you should have done numerous times before.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

Jita wrote:
Syndic wrote:

Anything that buffs Alpha mining/farming botters is an incredibly bad idea.

Remove all liquid ores and static NPC spawns from Alpha then this becomes a good idea. smile

Remember who's fault it was we don't have red mobs?

Bring back red mobs on Alpha including roaming ones and you stop botters and afk miners. If people abuse the mechanics to be an idiot again just ban them like you should have done numerous times before.

The fault lies on broken npc mechanics. But that's another discussion for another day.  Let's focus on "smaller" content building for alpha and beta. 

Small QoL change too:  beta auras apply to all blue+ standing.

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

Phantomburn wrote:

The fault lies on broken npc mechanics.

Thats like saying the reason I have a gut is Pizza. It's rubbish, red mobs were fine, it was toxic behaviour that was the problem.

Do you not think Red mods, observers and roaming spawns would be a good QOL benefit for Alpha? I think the OP would be beneficial too ofc.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

8 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2015-03-18 16:30:57)

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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

Nice idea! Just one question, do you think it'll be implemented before or after 2020?

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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

Burial wrote:

Nice idea! Just one question, do you think it's implemented before or after 2020?

well it looks like a relatively simple change that would be beneficial for the game and not a lot of work.

After 2020.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

10 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2015-03-18 16:33:58)

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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

Jita wrote:
Syndic wrote:

Anything that buffs Alpha mining/farming botters is an incredibly bad idea.

Remove all liquid ores and static NPC spawns from Alpha then this becomes a good idea. smile

Remember who's fault it was we don't have red mobs?

Bring back red mobs on Alpha including roaming ones and you stop botters and afk miners. If people abuse the mechanics to be an idiot again just ban them like you should have done numerous times before.

NPC AI was changed for red mobs to agro and follow you, that was the major change that created the problem can't blame players for doing it because if not them others will.

Edit: That is a good idea Ville.

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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

Phantomburn wrote:

We've always said there's not enough content on alpha.  I propose this idea.

Add all type of sap mechanics to alpha terminals.  These saps control the island auras.  Each sap is weighted to their respective counterpart.

The island stability is maxed out at 1000.

At 1000 there could be an engineering bonus and an industrial bonus upto 20-50%. Then in increments that scale with stability.  The saps can drop a can with a 1/10th of the loot as beta.

You can make a level 1 mission to participate in island stability.  It's not a random mission it's static.! Then you have an interactive landmark become active once a sap is active on alpha.  This mission could grant a lot of tokens.

This helps alpha players get accustomed to beta outpost control.  It creates content.

Would the stability decay or would other factions/players be able to lower the stability?  If not, then this is just a one time get it to 1000 effort?
How would I get 1/10 of a cortex or beacon? Maybe it just drops PLs, pvp ammo and epi.
I agree with Syndic that this will just reward afk miners and botters.  Jita is correct return red mobs to alpha 2 and make this an alpha 2 mechanic only (solves both problems somewhat).

This could backfire and make it so only 1 island gets used (the one moving toward 1000).

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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

Jita wrote:
Syndic wrote:

Anything that buffs Alpha mining/farming botters is an incredibly bad idea.

Remove all liquid ores and static NPC spawns from Alpha then this becomes a good idea. smile

Remember who's fault it was we don't have red mobs?

Bring back red mobs on Alpha including roaming ones and you stop botters and afk miners. If people abuse the mechanics to be an idiot again just ban them like you should have done numerous times before.

We should have red mobs and training them into people should be perfectly legit.

There should be no static spawns on Alpha, it's botting paradise and it's being abused to hell and back.

Perfect safety of Alpha needs to be opened up to the troll, the griefer, and the scammer. Otherwise people will never get used to Beta.

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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

Syndic wrote:
Jita wrote:
Syndic wrote:

Anything that buffs Alpha mining/farming botters is an incredibly bad idea.

Remove all liquid ores and static NPC spawns from Alpha then this becomes a good idea. smile

Remember who's fault it was we don't have red mobs?

Bring back red mobs on Alpha including roaming ones and you stop botters and afk miners. If people abuse the mechanics to be an idiot again just ban them like you should have done numerous times before.

We should have red mobs and training them into people should be perfectly legit.

There should be no static spawns on Alpha, it's botting paradise and it's being abused to hell and back.

Perfect safety of Alpha needs to be opened up to the troll, the griefer, and the scammer. Otherwise people will never get used to Beta.

The whole game is botting paradise and now Zoom has said botting is allowed no wonder it goes on. Gamma is probably worse as a botting location than Alpha but at least red mobs make it 99% safe instead of 100%.

Still, red spawns as they were was better than nothing. Dragging them was dumb in the same way concord avoidance is. You would get banned for one and you should at least get a knuckle slap for the other.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

Altera wrote:
Phantomburn wrote:

We've always said there's not enough content on alpha.  I propose this idea.

Add all type of sap mechanics to alpha terminals.  These saps control the island auras.  Each sap is weighted to their respective counterpart.

The island stability is maxed out at 1000.

At 1000 there could be an engineering bonus and an industrial bonus upto 20-50%. Then in increments that scale with stability.  The saps can drop a can with a 1/10th of the loot as beta.

You can make a level 1 mission to participate in island stability.  It's not a random mission it's static.! Then you have an interactive landmark become active once a sap is active on alpha.  This mission could grant a lot of tokens.

This helps alpha players get accustomed to beta outpost control.  It creates content.

Would the stability decay or would other factions/players be able to lower the stability?  If not, then this is just a one time get it to 1000 effort?
How would I get 1/10 of a cortex or beacon? Maybe it just drops PLs, pvp ammo and epi.
I agree with Syndic that this will just reward afk miners and botters.  Jita is correct return red mobs to alpha 2 and make this an alpha 2 mechanic only (solves both problems somewhat).


This could backfire and make it so only 1 island gets used (the one moving toward 1000).

- Random Thoughts by Altera

Excellent point!  I'd suggest that the stability declines after every sap that is not completed. 

1/10 equals: 
Active hacking: 1 cortex OR 1 decoder
Passive drops: 2.5 U of epi
Destro drops: 60 rounds of faction ammo
Specimen drops:  normal amount of epriton PL90s
+ specimen on beta has reward tripled.
I think auras could be lowered to 10% and it could be done in stages
At 100 you get 1%, at 500 you get 5%.

10% is nothing.  Npc farmers got a straight 20% nerf in the last patch.  ASSUMING they had enough EP to cover combat specialist and hi tech specialist and let's not forget about follow bot aggressive nerf.  I think 10% is nothing.  Moreover 20% probably wouldn't hurt. 

The sap spacing could be spaced 4 to 8 hours apart.

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

15 Reply by Inda (edited by Inda 2015-03-19 08:54:54)

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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

Spawn tough NPC's near to SAP locations! Even some Observers.

If it is not in the original idea. Use outposts for that. Alpha 2, would have 2 another place far away from Terminals.

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD
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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

Inda wrote:

Spawn thought NPC's near to SAP locations! Even some Observers.

If it is not in the original idea. Use outposts for that. Alpha 2, would have 2 another place far away from Terminals.

There it is guys!  Inda just merged the two ideas of the Alpha SAP with the discussion of a semi-beta PVE experience including red npc gangs.

The only issue is that red gangs follow right?  Why not tie them to some fixed radius around SAP locations on alpha?
This way the experience is still there for players that want to engage it. 
Why do red gangs only have one type of behavior? Is there no way to modulate this? Maybe a new 'type' of NPC aggression mechanics?  Maybe the SAP NPC's are orange, but aggress when players engage SAP?

I disagree with Syndic about the 'troll-griefer-scammer' as a worthy goal to integrate to alpha experience however.  I understand that in other games it is embraced as part of the experience and a welcome use of mechanics, but this is a 'pvp' quality being employed on what are currently understood as non-pvp zones.

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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

I think we are all well aware (I hope) that having 100% safe Alpha islands from PVP & PVE is bad. AND REALLY BORING. If you have Safe areas from PVP then you must have some risk from PVE.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue
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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

I think we are all well aware (I hope) that having 100% safe Alpha islands from PVP & PVE is bad. AND REALLY BORING. If you have Safe areas from PVP then you must have some risk from PVE.

I don't think having 100% safe islands from PvP is bad provided the PVE has enough risk. Right now theres zero risk anywhere on alpha and thats dumb as ***.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

When Lectron and I first started playing all NPC's were red and there were roaming observers on both alpha 1 and 2. On alpha 1 they were grand observers and no larger than assault class. On Alpha 2 they were grand observers and were both assault and mech. They roamed around and there was no such thing as afk mining.

I remember the incredible feeling of achievement when I solo killed my first Baphie observer after 10 minutes of using cover and kiting him. It was that sort of experience that kept us in the game, the threat of losing your bot. You needed to be paying attention. I don't know what the answer is for NPC AI, but what we have now is dull and boring compared to those first encounters all those years ago.

I believe the static and roaming red spawns were removed to cater for the new dynamic mineral system. So it's more than likely that any change in NPC AI would need to be tied into a rethink of the mineral system maybe ?

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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

Well I hate dynamic mineral spawns so I agree big_smile

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

21 Reply by Annihilator (edited by Annihilator 2015-03-19 21:28:10)

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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

Jita wrote:

Well I hate dynamic mineral spawns so I agree big_smile

well, DEVs always had at least two choices on adjusting stuff that broke because of an intended game mechanic choice.

in 99% of the cases, they did a qucik and dirty bandaid-fix and then left it long enough in that new player got used to it.

alpha 100% syndicate protection = bandaid
tracking removed = bandaid
orange npcs = bandaid
randomized mission selection = bandaid
scarabs landing gear never deployed = bandaid

hell, even jitas biggest nerf-cry-success aka injector charges nerf = bandaid

Dynamic mineral spawns was a long term goal they have implemented far to late. the fix should have been working on the "mining" experience, which is tailored to multiboxing+afk-macro input, and not making all PVE macro-friendly.

edit:
traveling boring and tedious, managing remote markets not possible -> Bandaid: Spark teleport

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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

scarabs landing gear? what?

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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

Again farm don't gives you peace of mind? you may be better to leave the game and not change it for you

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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

Blocker wrote:

When Lectron and I first started playing all NPC's were red and there were roaming observers on both alpha 1 and 2. On alpha 1 they were grand observers and no larger than assault class. On Alpha 2 they were grand observers and were both assault and mech. They roamed around and there was no such thing as afk mining.

I remember the incredible feeling of achievement when I solo killed my first Baphie observer after 10 minutes of using cover and kiting him. It was that sort of experience that kept us in the game, the threat of losing your bot. You needed to be paying attention. I don't know what the answer is for NPC AI, but what we have now is dull and boring compared to those first encounters all those years ago.

I believe the static and roaming red spawns were removed to cater for the new dynamic mineral system. So it's more than likely that any change in NPC AI would need to be tied into a rethink of the mineral system maybe ?

There were more people playing then. Lets roll back some of the features that likely bored many out of the game!

If mineral spawns were fixd and limited on each island it would make sense to start farming on beta/gamma because of the limited resources on alpha tongue

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Re: Instant Content- Alpha Sap mechanics.

Gwyndor wrote:

If mineral spawns were fixd and limited on each island it would make sense to start farming on beta/gamma because of the limited resources on alpha tongue

i would expect the cir multiboxing mining group do their weekly alpha mining again at the same spot over and over and deny it from less experience player again.

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