1 (edited by Rasnath 2014-11-15 16:11:22)

Topic: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

Hello, first of all, I would like to explain the current situation of the game as I see it. At one point, the game lost a lot of CIR guys (so I've been told), because they have conquered everything and had no enemies and got bored. Then after a while, new guys (along with some vets) came to the game and started claiming beta terminals. Afterwards, the CIR vets came back, saw they had people to kill and have fun, hence started counquering again. Now, here we are, newbies getting pounded (that's how it should be IMO) by CIR and their subcorps. There are massive operations going on, either nudging the "owners" of beta and gamma islands, some covert mining, artifacting and nonetheless, all out warfare. The game is player driven. It's all about the players, really.

To sum it up, I like to see the CIR and co. as the Big Bad Wolf (no offence), prying with its fangs on basically the rest of the server. The RUST coalition (which I am part of) is fighting, yet losing. But here is the thing: Players are uniting against a common enemy, and that is FUN! We are getting pounded and having fun. We dont have much EP nor resources, not to even talk about the sheer amount of bots cir has. BUT that is all fun, because players have a common goal. Now come the nerfs. Those nerfs do make fighting with CIR a lot worse because of:

1) ratting is the game's main NIC outcome, again, CIR will faceroll the rats, whereas we, who had a chance against the rats we were farming have to go a tier lower (which is a lot). All in all, less kernels and nic.

2) the point i really want to focus on is mining and harvesting.The corporations will mine their ore and keep it in corp to produce the equipment and bots. THE MARKET IS PRETTY MUCH DEAD!! I don't see a reason for CIR to post any of their ores (except epi - highly priced) on the market. Now that we've established that ore will mostly stay in corp, here's the thing. CIR already has outrageous amounts of equips and bots, whereas RUST has quite little stock. We are less able to keep the mining up with bot production. We need to actually have bots for CIR to blow em up. Essentially, mining nerfs will hit newbs a lot more than veteran players.


For the game to function in the near future, we will need to uphold the clash of powers. I am perfectly fine with RUST being weak yet on the rising side and CIR being godly. But if you nerf our primary sources of income, we might not be able to keep the struggle going. AND THAT IS THE MAIN DRIVING FORCE OF THE GAME. The clash of powers, the pvp aspect of fighting for power, the pve aspect of supporting the front lines. IMO, atm, this game is a fine *** simulation of WW2. I enjoyed it so much I freaking bought 7 accounts in my mere 2 weeks of playing the game. And i had a blast, belive me.

What i suggest you do is the following:
1) reduce the mining nerfs, that is the main crippling factor of the newbie corps (remember, if we are too weak, cir wont have anyone to blow up and both parties will be unhappy), cause ore production cant keep up with industry and market prices are outrageous. And not to mention CIR prob refines and produces at 375 bonus factories anyways. We are still stuck at 50. A 20% nerf on mining is a 20% nerf on our industry and like 5-10% neft on their industry, cause of all that bonus.
2) When ratting, newbies are the only ones getting nerfed in that aspect (i thought your idea of nerfing was to get more newbies to the game). Or make the tier difference lower. 4th star is many times better in loot than the 3rd star, there should be a diffence in loot, but not as high as it is now (meaning 1 cir can beat 5-10 newbs in ratting easily, unless they group up - newbie unfriendly).
3) aside from teritorial warfare, there is nothing to do in the game to be honest. When you are sitting on 20 gropho mk2s and billions of ore, you have nothing to do if there is no war. And we need the war to keep going. And there is going to be no war if either side falls to pieces.
4) With the intent to nerf the vets, you actually crippled the newbs you were planning to buff. We are going to have an easier time fighting with cir (but not much), yet on the other hand, we might not be having enough bots to actually fight in, hence you're crippling us.
5) Your balancing idea was good, but you cant just flat out nerf everything, because it brings the problems you've seen. And you're losing players this way.

Please don't make me regret buying 7 accounts.
A big shout for both RUST and CIR coalitions, because if it werent for your war, I probalby wouldnt have kept playing the game.
And I'm having a blast with the game! big_smile big_smile big_smile big_smile

Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

So... um... how is that 95% working out for you Avatar Creations?  Great write up btw, 10/10  I would read wall of text again.

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3 (edited by Syndic 2014-11-15 14:55:49)

Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

#1 Correction - Our beloved Partnership of Equals is composed of CIR and 77, with our recruiting/indy subcorps PHM and 133.

#2 Correction - The nerfs make it harder for you to fight us, not easier.

#3 Correction - There is no war going on.

#4 Correction - We ran out of opponents twice.

Otherwise carry on, 4/10 for effort would read again.

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CIR Complaint Form

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4 (edited by Rasnath 2014-11-15 15:00:28)

Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

Ville wrote:

So... um... how is that 95% working out for you Avatar Creations?  Great write up btw, 10/10  I would read wall of text again.

I basically just go european with black hair, default one, im kinda unoriginal in that stuff. Names are a pain though, i cant remember what name i should have on em tongue

5 (edited by Rasnath 2014-11-15 15:01:03)

Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

Syndic wrote:

#1 Correction - Our beloved Partnership of Equals is composed of CIR and 77, with our recruiting/indy subcorps PHM and 133.

#2 Correction - The nerfs make it harder for you to fight us, not easier.

#3 Correction - There is no war going on.

#4 Correction - We ran out of opponents twice.

Otherwise carry on, 4/10 for effort would read again.

#1 Great, didnt know that
#2 Exactly, a bit easier on advanced robotics because they have less impact now, but harder on the production side, cause we need resources bad. However, now that i think about it, the newbs have a lot of ep in robotics, which is harder on us now....
#3 Well, its war for us and roflstomping for you guys big_smile
#4 Let's make it so you dont run out three times then, hope the DEVs wont help you that way.

Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

Needs some highlighting and bold maybe underlining so that people can read the main points. I read it all and it makes sense. Having a common enemy does provide content but as is said in many other threads when the outcome always looks like a loss then it does tend to get boring tongue

Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

Gwyndor wrote:

Needs some highlighting and bold maybe underlining so that people can read the main points. I read it all and it makes sense. Having a common enemy does provide content but as is said in many other threads when the outcome always looks like a loss then it does tend to get boring tongue

Will try to highlight it a bit smile As for the power struggle, give it some time, we are growing. smile

Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

Rasnath wrote:
Ville wrote:

So... um... how is that 95% working out for you Avatar Creations?  Great write up btw, 10/10  I would read wall of text again.

I basically just go european with black hair, default one, im kinda unoriginal in that stuff. Names are a pain though, i cant remember what name i should have on em tongue

Avatar Creations is the name of the development group that's responsible for perpetuum online.  Not your specific avatar.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
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Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

Ville wrote:
Rasnath wrote:
Ville wrote:

So... um... how is that 95% working out for you Avatar Creations?  Great write up btw, 10/10  I would read wall of text again.

I basically just go european with black hair, default one, im kinda unoriginal in that stuff. Names are a pain though, i cant remember what name i should have on em tongue

Avatar Creations is the name of the development group that's responsible for perpetuum online.  Not your specific avatar.

Aaah, didn't know that big_smile

Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

A little naive and narrow conception of the situation. But a whole lot of better than most of the players miing half a year on alpha to start PvPing. Note that this stance gives the emotinal tools to HAVE A FUN EXPERIENCE.

Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

Rolafen Azec wrote:

A little naive and narrow conception of the situation. But a whole lot of better than most of the players miing half a year on alpha to start PvPing. Note that this stance gives the emotinal tools to HAVE A FUN EXPERIENCE.

Of course it's naive and narrow, I've only been to the game for 2 weeks and a bit. Although, I would love for you to shed some light on the matter, I'd love to know what I missed.

Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

CIR has a polarising effect yes. however if that poliriing effect were not there a whole lot of now supressed dynamics would rear their head (instead of lack of action as proposed).

Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

Great writeup +1.  Would read again.    Now how many common threads hating the new patch until zoom listens.  Zoom if your reading this, it should be a sign that vets and newbs, enemies, and friends hate this patch. It is the worst one you have put out and it needs to be rolled back.

Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

Rolafen Azec wrote:

CIR has a polarising effect yes. however if that poliriing effect were not there a whole lot of now supressed dynamics would rear their head (instead of lack of action as proposed).

That is true, i didnt think about that. But I'd still like for the power struggle to remain "real" (atm, CIR and 77th are pwning). More players means better game for me. As for the new dynamics, I can imagine a few, but if i were to write them in my post, that'd be speculation, because I dont see the future of the game. However, if the game is actually keeping the changes, the future is a lot grimmer imo.

15 (edited by Race Drones 2014-11-15 16:08:39)

Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

Rasnath wrote:

...At one point, the game lost a lot of CIR guys (so I've been told), ...

Who told you that?.

(you have two weeks playing i have an idea who told you that and when, ... but dont believe his hallucinations).

Rasnath wrote:

Hello, first of all, I would like to explain the current situation of the game as I see it. At one point, the game lost a lot of CIR guys (so I've been told), because they have conquered everything and had no enemies and got bored. Then after a while, new guys (along with some vets) came to the game and started claiming beta terminals. Afterwards, the CIR vets came back, saw they had people to kill and have fun, hence started counquering again. Now, here we are, newbies getting pounded (that's how it should be IMO) by CIR and their subcorps. There are massive operations going on, either nudging the "owners" of beta and gamma islands, some covert mining, artifacting and nonetheless, all out warfare. The game is player driven. It's all about the players, really.

To sum it up, I like to see the CIR and co. as the Big Bad Wolf (no offence), prying with its fangs on basically the rest of the server. The RUST coalition (which I am part of) is fighting, yet losing. But here is the thing: Players are uniting against a common enemy, and that is FUN! We are getting pounded and having fun. We dont have much EP nor resources, not to even talk about the sheer amount of bots cir has. BUT that is all fun, because players have a common goal. Now come the nerfs. Those nerfs do make fighting with CIR a lot worse because of:

1) ratting is the game's main NIC outcome, again, CIR will faceroll the rats, whereas we, who had a chance against the rats we were farming have to go a tier lower (which is a lot). All in all, less kernels and nic.

2) the point i really want to focus on is mining and harvesting.The corporations will mine their ore and keep it in corp to produce the equipment and bots. THE MARKET IS PRETTY MUCH DEAD!! I don't see a reason for CIR to post any of their ores (except epi - highly priced) on the market. Now that we've established that ore will mostly stay in corp, here's the thing. CIR already has outrageous amounts of equips and bots, whereas RUST has quite little stock. We are less able to keep the mining up with bot production. We need to actually have bots for CIR to blow em up. Essentially, mining nerfs will hit newbs a lot more than veteran players.


For the game to function in the near future, we will need to uphold the clash of powers. I am perfectly fine with RUST being weak yet on the rising side and CIR being godly. But if you nerf our primary sources of income, we might not be able to keep the struggle going. AND THAT IS THE MAIN DRIVING FORCE OF THE GAME. The clash of powers, the pvp aspect of fighting for power, the pve aspect of supporting the front lines. IMO, atm, this game is a fine *** simulation of WW2. I enjoyed it so much I freaking bought 7 accounts in my mere 2 weeks of playing the game. And i had a blast, belive me.

What i suggest you do is the following:
1) reduce the mining nerfs, that is the main crippling factor of the newbie corps (remember, if we are too weak, cir wont have anyone to blow up and both parties will be unhappy), cause ore production cant keep up with industry and market prices are outrageous. And not to mention CIR prob refines and produces at 375 bonus factories anyways. We are still stuck at 50. A 20% nerf on mining is a 20% nerf on our industry and like 5-10% neft on their industry, cause of all that bonus.
2) When ratting, newbies are the only ones getting nerfed in that aspect (i thought your idea of nerfing was to get more newbies to the game). Or make the tier difference lower. 4th star is many times better in loot than the 3rd star, there should be a diffence in loot, but not as high as it is now (meaning 1 cir can beat 5-10 newbs in ratting easily, unless they group up - newbie unfriendly).
3) aside from teritorial warfare, there is nothing to do in the game to be honest. When you are sitting on 20 gropho mk2s and billions of ore, you have nothing to do if there is no war. And we need the war to keep going. And there is going to be no war if either side falls to pieces.
4) With the intent to nerf the vets, you actually crippled the newbs you were planning to buff. We are going to have an easier time fighting with cir (but not much), yet on the other hand, we might not be having enough bots to actually fight in, hence you're crippling us.
5) Your balancing idea was good, but you cant just flat out nerf everything, because it brings the problems you've seen. And you're losing players this way.

Please don't make me regret buying 7 accounts.
A big shout for both RUST and CIR coalitions, because if it werent for your war, I probalby wouldnt have kept playing the game.
And I'm having a blast with the game! big_smile:D:D:D

^^ a big +1

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The "Planet of the Apes" is not science fiction, is a daily reality.
All is in "The Matrix".
See Beyond the Obvious.

Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

I like the patch. big_smile

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

Race Drones wrote:

Who told you that?.

(you have two weeks playing i have an idea who told you that and when, ... but dont believe his hallucinations).

Some corpies in NSE. Apparently we actually had an outpost before CIR became active back again.

Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

I approve of this patch, specially the nerfs, due to their inherent comedy value.

Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

Rasnath wrote:
Race Drones wrote:

Who told you that?.

(you have two weeks playing i have an idea who told you that and when, ... but dont believe his hallucinations).

Some corpies in NSE. Apparently we actually had an outpost before CIR became active back again.

CIR traditionally has left newbie corps alone until they disregard the advice given and align with the opposite power block (and by align I mean the opposite power block fighting CIR uses the newbies as meat shields). Point at which they are grinded to dust.

20 (edited by Stranger Danger 2014-11-15 18:05:25)

Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

We are dominant due to SAP mechanics.

We are dominant due to the fact that those who could stop us refuse to play in a manner that could risk them not winning.

We will remain dominant because the new players think that having the same exact number of bots as us, and the same bot class as us will create equality in gameplay.

New players that are struggling to beat us will not all of a sudden start winning when they get heavies or get heavies nerfed.  They don't understand the game mechanics, they lack strategy, and they've never fought people on equal ground before mostly due to being allied up to the entire game aside from us.

When a 20 man fleet (and that's on a good day) can dominate the game...theres something wrong with both the players and mechanics.  I mean it takes like two or three of our players to lock down the game world...how sad is that?

Politics wont allow most players to accept suggestions made by us on how to remedy the issue.

Even before the nerfs...you guys could have made a light and assault fleet to wreck our heavies, the possibility existed within the game, however you guys are learning more about forum complaining, political arguing, and begging the developers for help than using your head and playing on our level.  This is why our dominance is secured for the near future.

And yes weve given hand out to help the games corps grow, it resulted in a lot of corps quitting when the handout turned out to be less than a free ticket to pve farming on beta, and the second time resulted in the corps who benefitted becoming cocky about the reasons they owned beta, resulting in it being taken from them.

This patch, and all future patches wont do much, we have people who will have it all figured out before it hits the game while new players will assume that bots are equality on the battle field, and will end up learning as all the ego inflated vet corps who just forum pvp...

Stranger Danger / Capital Punishment / Cyberdown
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Ruler of Recruit Chat
CIR Ministry of Truth

Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

I personally adore reading reports on "super sikrit meetings" where all the cute plans get hatched out.

Honestly you guys spend less time planning how to fight us then plotting how to get one over each other. lol

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

BandwagonX9000 wrote:
Rasnath wrote:
Race Drones wrote:

Who told you that?.

(you have two weeks playing i have an idea who told you that and when, ... but dont believe his hallucinations).

Some corpies in NSE. Apparently we actually had an outpost before CIR became active back again.

CIR traditionally has left newbie corps alone until they disregard the advice given and align with the opposite power block (and by align I mean the opposite power block fighting CIR uses the newbies as meat shields). Point at which they are grinded to dust.

CIR and 77th at the moment own all the beta outposts. Would they really willingly let one outpost to a neutral corporation? What does disregarding the advice given mean? I, for example, dont know you guys. I know *** happens in beta, but that's expected, cause its beta. I tried finding any beta outpost where i could do industry with my indy char. Guess what, all of those are owned by CIR and 77th. So the only way to get an outpost is by attacking it.

On the other hand, I read the bio of both 77th and CIR. In all essence, it seems like a "Everyone will be crushed by us" corp. I cant even imagine a corp like that would even want a friendly indy miner like me. So i stayed in NSE and I liked it.

I know just one beta outpost could become an anchoring point, but didnt you guys say that you completely crush anyone else? would that one outpost really hurt you so much if you're op anyways? When a newbie comes to the game, he sees that all outposts are owned by corporations which SEEM (I'm not calling any names, I dont know you guys, but your public image is negative) like goonswarm from eve, meaning newbie unfriendly. I'm sorry if i understood that wrong, but ive never talked with anyone from cir yet, so that's my opinion until someone enlightens me.

Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

We're the friendliest kindest people in the world.

Usually we give every newbie corp a very simple line of advice; we can be reasonable about everything, but from the moment you sign up with our enemies to fight us, the gloves are going off and they aren't going back on. You will be fair game.

Pretty much all newbie leaders come into the game like Zoom, thinking they're smarter then everyone else and don't take the time to research just how many newbie corps did the same dumb sh*t and got murdered. Hell, even I lost track and I used to keep a list in my sig until the list got too big. lol

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

24 (edited by Rasnath 2014-11-15 19:45:15)

Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

Stranger Danger wrote:

We are dominant due to SAP mechanics.

We are dominant due to the fact that those who could stop us refuse to play in a manner that could risk them not winning.

We will remain dominant because the new players think that having the same exact number of bots as us, and the same bot class as us will create equality in gameplay.

New players that are struggling to beat us will not all of a sudden start winning when they get heavies or get heavies nerfed.  They don't understand the game mechanics, they lack strategy, and they've never fought people on equal ground before mostly due to being allied up to the entire game aside from us.

When a 20 man fleet (and that's on a good day) can dominate the game...theres something wrong with both the players and mechanics.  I mean it takes like two or three of our players to lock down the game world...how sad is that?

Politics wont allow most players to accept suggestions made by us on how to remedy the issue.

Even before the nerfs...you guys could have made a light and assault fleet to wreck our heavies, the possibility existed within the game, however you guys are learning more about forum complaining, political arguing, and begging the developers for help than using your head and playing on our level.  This is why our dominance is secured for the near future.

This patch, and all future patches wont do much, we have people who will have it all figured out before it hits the game while new players will assume that bots are equality on the battle field, and will end up learning as all the ego inflated vet corps who just forum pvp...

Phew, this will be a long reply. I, for once, did not cry about the nerfs. Sure, I dont like them, but ive tried to post my ups and downs of this patch. Ive even said i dont bother about losing. However, i do believe this patch is bad for the community.

In NSE (I AM NOT SPEAKING AS THE LEADER!!), we have a pretty peaceful environment. We can not function normally with CIR having each and every outpost taken. We need one outpost. It has been said in the corp that if we ever prevail, we would only take as much of the outposts as we needed and leave the rest to the other corps.

I have found little people in the corp to be crybabies, they are more or less cool guys, prepared to lose a lot of stuff for "greater good". But a lot of people which are new arent prepared to lose 5 million nic on a bot and equips which are going to be destroyed for one fight. They dont have the finances to back this up.

I wouldnt mind a 1v1 fight, but such fights happen rarely in beta, dont they? Also, coordinating 20 people is godlike in my opinion in this game with low population, gz for that. Complete newbies with 40k ep spent in fighting skills dont stand a chance in large pvp fights. Sure, they could help, but the corp cant pay them all. Not everyone is as rich as CIR is. You guys can mine epi in gamma all day.

As for this reason, they wont get in beta fights because like in eve, you cant take a bot to beta that you cant afford to lose. And they usually cant replace them. Or they are saving up for better bots. And here is how they lack strategy, because you cant master pvp if you dont do pvp.

Ive got 2 combat accounts, both have 40k ep. I bet if i were to fight with Syndic 2v1, i would lose.

This was my first forum post. I mostly see the same people complaining. As far as the complaining goes, one bad person can make the whole corp look bad, whiny and weak.

Stranger Danger wrote:

And yes weve given hand out to help the games corps grow, it resulted in a lot of corps quitting when the handout turned out to be less than a free ticket to pve farming on beta, and the second time resulted in the corps who benefitted becoming cocky about the reasons they owned beta, resulting in it being taken from them.

I havent ever heard about this corp helping other people. Of course, this might have been due to whiners on forums and me being in the game for 2-3 weeks. As for the helping hand, I dont know, if those guys did this, then they certainly shouldnt receive help. I would pay good for protection in beta islands when mining epi. Then again, id probably be too afraid to ask you guys, cause id think you'd rather blow me up. My bad i suppose.

As a closing statement: I never understood feuds on the forums, go to the game and work it out. Destroy a few bots and thats it. But i do know a lot of reasonable players who already know they are weak compared to you and wouldnt want to do 1v1 cause there isnt even a chance to win. What im trying to say is that not everyone is an idiot who wants equal grounds and nerfs because they dont have skills both in game and as a gamer. Those guys play lol or cod.

Re: My take on the nerfs - a logical assessment

Syndic wrote:

We're the friendliest kindest people in the world.

Usually we give every newbie corp a very simple line of advice; we can be reasonable about everything, but from the moment you sign up with our enemies to fight us, the gloves are going off and they aren't going back on. You will be fair game.

Pretty much all newbie leaders come into the game like Zoom, thinking they're smarter then everyone else and don't take the time to research just how many newbie corps did the same dumb sh*t and got murdered. Hell, even I lost track and I used to keep a list in my sig until the list got too big. lol

Well, i joined NSE before i even knew there were fights. But at the current state of the game, wherever i go, there will be bloodshed - either CIR or RUST hunts me down. And i need a corp, im useless alone. What you're telling me is that im screwed as soon as i join a corporation? XD