Re: So whats the plan?

You're not lacking PVP however, it's waiting for you whenever you log in and decide to play. lol

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52 (edited by Tonnik 2014-08-11 11:03:41)

Re: So whats the plan?

Syndic wrote:

M2S held 13/15 outposts long after you quit the game Jita, and long before the lockout was introduced. Lock-out isn't any issue since it ceases when stability drops below 50, and it adds a bit of investment contrary to the preferred method of sparking an alt account in there to ninja the sap when nobody is looking.

Showing up 1-2 times in 24 hours is reasonable to expect for someone who wants to attack an outpost.

It's always going to be impossible for the second most powerful entity and below to take the most powerful entity unless they are both very finely balanced. The game needs to make full beta control as close to impossible as possible. I think making you take your own saps to prevent decreases in stability would be a good start.

Really stations are only half the issue though. Detectors and sparks make you able to respond anywhere you want anyway (and thats before we get in to alts).

Re: So whats the plan?

Developers need to set up a plan that would solve the issues the game is facing right now. It needs just a handful of planned out fixes to get the game back on track. Sad part is I doubt they have the understanding of the game that is necessary for that.

Re: So whats the plan?

I don't believe you should have to be able to beat whoever is the dominant power in PvP to own a station. This does not promote emergent gameplay, it promotes small numbers of powerblocks and alliances.

Perhaps an alternative would be allowing beta 2 to be locked out and not beta 1? I still think the having to take your own saps arguement is more elegant.

Re: So whats the plan?

You don't have to be able to beat the dominant power.

RAD and CONS weren't able to beat us, so they did the smart thing and used diplomacy to get theirs.

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56 (edited by Annihilator 2014-08-11 11:52:13)

Re: So whats the plan?

syndic, you logic and math skills always make me shiver...

m2s had the outpost supremacy under intrusion 1.0, that was a different situation regarding the station lockout, but similar reason why they could that.
For example to have assets in abundance in all outposts so you can travel there with only the fastest bots or today, with spark teleporting. you got the homebase advantage everywhere.

second part is - you need to do NOTHING to raise the stability of an oupost. since you have so many of them, and they nearly never cycle to be open at the same time -> you can focus all your effort on the one that is going to be attacked, which you will know without putting any effort in it.

writing any more is wasted effort...
but

Syndic wrote:

Showing up 1-2 times in 24 hours is reasonable to expect for someone who wants to attack an outpost.

is not what it takes to capture and hold an oupost from your corp. If you think so, then you know less about this game is played then... DEV Zoom.
(or you are lying for you forum propaganda)

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Re: So whats the plan?

Annihilator wrote:

(or you are lying for you forum propaganda)

there you go.

But in all honesty stations are a small part of the problem. It takes like two people to scout the entire of beta currently and sparks allow you to be anywhere.

Even if you removed both detectors and sparks and made all the outposts open it still wouldn't make a difference - without four of five entities in the game they would just be permacamped anyway.

What we have in place currently is endgame mechanics when the population isn't in place to support endgame gameplay.

Re: So whats the plan?

SAP's have to be defended for 1 hour. If you don't defend, anyone can come by and complete the SAP, therefore reducing the stability. If you do defend, you're sitting there twiddling your thumbs for 1 hour. That's not "NOTHING", that's 1 hour of someone's time for 20-30M worth of loot.

If stations are that easy to defend without putting any effort into it, how did we take them in the first place 3-4 months ago?

Knowing what will be attacked where and when takes quite a lot of effort. Informants need to be bribed, covert agents must be maintained, and rank ladders must be climbed.

My logic is very straightforward. I took a few more stations and fought a few more wars then you, so keep your wannabe posturing on how the game is played for Zoom.

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59 (edited by Burial 2014-08-11 12:26:45)

Re: So whats the plan?

Your hands must be quite busy then defending all those SAPs across Nia. lol

My point being: No-one defends random SAPs for 1 hour waiting for someone to show up since 90% of times no-one does. People get SAP time and 1 hour after the time spark their alt in to grab the loot - that's all there is.

Re: So whats the plan?

Sounds like nobody is trying to attack the outposts. Working as intended.

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Re: So whats the plan?

Syndic wrote:

SAP's have to be defended for 1 hour. If you don't defend, anyone can come by and complete the SAP, therefore reducing the stability. If you do defend, you're sitting there twiddling your thumbs for 1 hour. That's not "NOTHING", that's 1 hour of someone's time for 20-30M worth of loot.

This.  Why do you think DoY just swoops in the last ~10 minutes and tries to ninja, and if they see their own shadow run for alpha or try to safe log?  Because we're usually watching. 

Baby sitting a SAP is the same thing as doing a Large Complex in Faction Warfare for you EVE guys.  It's lots of waiting around doing nothing punctuated by the occasional very short engagement which is usually decided one way or the other very quickly.

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: So whats the plan?

but the point is that one side owning all outposts (and by your own words watching every sap) is bad for the game as it crushes emergent gameplay.

Re: So whats the plan?

One side will always own all the outposts as long as everyone else isn't willing to launch a campaign to take some.

No mechanic can change that, as even if every station outside Dom was a scorched wasteland of contested outposts, we'd simply have accounts undocking on each island every few hours and checking.

Removing detectors? Good luck masking those epriton fields, funny thing how they're the only worthwhile thing on Beta.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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Re: So whats the plan?

Syndic wrote:

One side will always own all the outposts as long as everyone else isn't willing to launch a campaign to take some.

No mechanic can change that, as even if every station outside Dom was a scorched wasteland of contested outposts, we'd simply have accounts undocking on each island every few hours and checking.

Removing detectors? Good luck masking those epriton fields, funny thing how they're the only worthwhile thing on Beta.

finally we get to the point. I agree with you wholeheartedly .. now what do we do about that?

Re: So whats the plan?

This.  Why do you think DoY just swoops in the last ~10 minutes and tries to ninja, and if they see their own shadow run for alpha or try to safe log?  Because we're usually watching.:lol:
Because now DoY it is me. Other man escaped from perp. I have no 3-5 havys vs. 1 assoult as you make.

66 (edited by Celebro 2014-08-11 14:27:58)

Re: So whats the plan?

The plan right now is to close threads tongue


Finish Gamma for Christ sake, so you can start the PVE content!

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: So whats the plan?

Annihilator wrote:

... the stability of an oupost. since you have so many of them, and they nearly never cycle to be open at the same time -> you can focus all your effort on the one that is going ...

You're wrong, more than one SAP in the same/different islands occurs at the same time.

Keep it simple, stupid.

Re: So whats the plan?

Galaxy Drones wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

... the stability of an oupost. since you have so many of them, and they nearly never cycle to be open at the same time -> you can focus all your effort on the one that is going ...

You're wrong, more than one SAP in the same/different islands occurs at the same time.

It does, yes, but not consistently. Even if there's two important SAPs happening at the same time and one is lost, it's extremely unlikely to happen again on the next timer. It essentially all boils down to numbers.

69 (edited by Crepitus 2014-08-11 15:50:27)

Re: So whats the plan?

Burial wrote:

It essentially all boils down to numbers.

Which has always and will always be the case regardless of mechanics.

Also asking for DEV intervention to fix your political, strategic and tactical failures does not make a sandbox.

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: So whats the plan?

We have 50 players online and you think nothing should be fixed?

71 (edited by Crepitus 2014-08-11 16:16:52)

Re: So whats the plan?

Burial wrote:

We have 50 players online and you think nothing should be fixed?

My opinion is that most people quit the game long before they even think of going to a Beta.

EDIT: You don't have to look hard to find out why.

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: So whats the plan?

Actually there's about 170 to 200 online.

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Re: So whats the plan?

Galaxy Drones wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

... the stability of an oupost. since you have so many of them, and they nearly never cycle to be open at the same time -> you can focus all your effort on the one that is going ...

You're wrong, more than one SAP in the same/different islands occurs at the same time.

"nearly never" doesn't exclude that it happens.
while your sentence says that it always happens without exceptions.

while mine is a bit exaggerated, your sentence is not right.

Ville wrote:

Actually there's about 170 to 200 online.

while burials number is the general chat only, yours seem to be "agents", which is not the player count. Both are pittifull numbers for an MMO.

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Re: So whats the plan?

Crepitus wrote:
Syndic wrote:

SAP's have to be defended for 1 hour. If you don't defend, anyone can come by and complete the SAP, therefore reducing the stability. If you do defend, you're sitting there twiddling your thumbs for 1 hour. That's not "NOTHING", that's 1 hour of someone's time for 20-30M worth of loot.

This.  Why do you think DoY just swoops in the last ~10 minutes and tries to ninja, and if they see their own shadow run for alpha or try to safe log?  Because we're usually watching. 

Baby sitting a SAP is the same thing as doing a Large Complex in Faction Warfare for you EVE guys.  It's lots of waiting around doing nothing punctuated by the occasional very short engagement which is usually decided one way or the other very quickly.

I agree with the comparison to FW in Eve. The difference here is there is no way to force the defender to cap their ow sap. I dont mean the defenders destroy their own destro, just that they have to sit on it for 5-10 minutes then their own little timer is up and as long as someone else doesnt come in and destroy it anyways then defense success.

If the defender doesnt show up to atleast sit in the sap for 5-15 then the sap goes uncontested the control rat naturally decays by 5%. othing game changing but would make it a little more difficult for one group to control everything.

Re: So whats the plan?

Annihilator wrote:
Galaxy Drones wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

... the stability of an oupost. since you have so many of them, and they nearly never cycle to be open at the same time -> you can focus all your effort on the one that is going ...

You're wrong, more than one SAP in the same/different islands occurs at the same time.

"nearly never" doesn't exclude that it happens.
while your sentence says that it always happens without exceptions.

while mine is a bit exaggerated, your sentence is not right.

Ville wrote:

Actually there's about 170 to 200 online.

while burials number is the general chat only, yours seem to be "agents", which is not the player count. Both are pittifull numbers for an MMO.

there's 100 in our own squad.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
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