Re: Beacon activation and ownership

Syndic wrote:

Don't be ridiculous.

Macroing can't be stopped because it's largely undetectable and widely acessible through any better gaming equipment.

It's harder to bot/macro minerals and normal spawns because the fields move after depletion, or the plasma-yield is fixed by the static respawn.

Beacons on the other hand, are a variable that solely depends on how fast player/macro can "process" them, and the rewards scale exponentially.

Key being that they're infinitely more profitable on Alpha in perfect safety then on Beta where you risk all the bots you're willing to put on the field, either from a PVP or from a PVE perspective.

Zero risk, maximum reward VERSUS Maximum risk, negligible reward.

you are so persistent in your cries and whines you outclass everybody in this as well. Hats down, I give up, cannot compete with this river of tears.

Industrial Junkie

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

Tamas Vitez wrote:
Syndic wrote:

Don't be ridiculous.

Macroing can't be stopped because it's largely undetectable and widely acessible through any better gaming equipment.

It's harder to bot/macro minerals and normal spawns because the fields move after depletion, or the plasma-yield is fixed by the static respawn.

Beacons on the other hand, are a variable that solely depends on how fast player/macro can "process" them, and the rewards scale exponentially.

Key being that they're infinitely more profitable on Alpha in perfect safety then on Beta where you risk all the bots you're willing to put on the field, either from a PVP or from a PVE perspective.

Zero risk, maximum reward VERSUS Maximum risk, negligible reward.

you are so persistent in your cries and whines you outclass everybody in this as well. Hats down, I give up, cannot compete with this river of tears.

Player Tamas!

I am so discouraged to find you losing heart in what matters most to you.  I wish you good will and fortune in the future!  I hope you will see this little bit of frustration that has played out to be a mere speed bump in the road and you will continue the good fight!  I dearly hope player Tamas you will NOT give up!!! sad  As giving up is a sign of a loser!  You are not loser player Tamas!  You are a great winner and most awesome and excellent player!  I sincerely hope you will find encouragement in my words and begin to be uplifted to arouse to the challenge!  I hope you have a most AWESOME day player Tamas and good fortunes!  Sincerely.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

78 (edited by Cassius 2014-07-02 16:44:44)

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

Ville, getting old fast, was funny once.

Syndic, it might be safer to farm them on Alpha, but bullshit, you can generate the same income from them no matter where you run them, with the right organization. You guys are organized, remember? And macro comments ... Keep repeating them until they stick, we both know it's not even remotely on topic here.

Zoom, wow. In my opinion you are missing the point big time. This is griefing, plain and simple. It's against the rules of your game. Remember when red NPCs on alpha were unleashed and players from all side would deliberately drag them to the terminals to aggro on unsuspecting players? All allowed within the game mechanics. But it was griefing within those game mechanics. It was changed. Now veteran players are using game mechanics to grief mostly your newer players, and your Alpha players. Its that simple. You as Devs need the generally 85% Alpha player base product consumption to supplement and allow a 15% PvP player base to exist. It's not my income that's ultimately on the line here.

Ps in a game starved for content, "nerf content" is the wrong solution.
Also, when Ville quotes this and offers his repetitive generic patronizing reply, please delete it as it offers no content to this thread.

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

Cassius wrote:

Ville, getting old fast, was funny once.

Syndic, it might be safer to farm them on Alpha, but bullshit, you can generate the same income from them no matter where you run them, with the right organization. You guys are organized, remember? And macro comments ... Keep repeating them until they stick, we both know it's not even remotely on topic here.

Zoom, wow. In my opinion you are missing the point big time. This is griefing, plain and simple. It's against the rules of your game. Remember when red NPCs on alpha were unleashed and players from all side would deliberately drag them to the terminals to aggro on unsuspecting players? All allowed within the game mechanics. But it was griefing within those game mechanics. It was changed. Now veteran players are using game mechanics to grief mostly your newer players, and your Alpha players. Its that simple. You as Devs need the generally 85% Alpha player base product consumption to supplement and allow a 15% PvP player base to exist. It's not my income that's ultimately on the line here.

Ps in a game starved for content, "nerf content" is the wrong solution.
Also, when Ville quotes this and offers his repetitive generic patronizing reply, please delete it as it offers no content to this thread.

/thread

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

80 (edited by Syndic 2014-07-02 16:58:41)

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

Don't be ridiculous.

On Beta you have to drag them apart otherwise explosion damage destroys the loot.

So on Beta:
- I'm risking my bots
- I'm risking my loot
- I can't AFK

On Alpha it can be macroed so:
- I don't risk my bots
- I don't risk my loot
- I can AFK

You can spin arguments on their head but the bottom line is that it's ridiculously scaleable with the amount of accounts included. Joe Doe who started playing 2 days ago doesn't have 1-2-3-5 Seth Mk2/Mesmer Mk2 accounts to rip the beacons to shreds, veterans do.

And it's the veterans whose modus operandi has always been "no risk maximum gain" taking full advantage of this to stack stuff on top of stuff.

How will new players compete against vets who aren't even risking their stuff while making full bank on Alpha?

Why would new players even want to go to Beta/Gamma? They can make the best income on Alpha. Why bother?

It's ridiculous and abusive. Fix it or let it be abused - with full knowledge that EVERYONE can do it. Including us.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

How will new players compete against vets who aren't even risking their stuff while making full bank on Alpha

the same way those now-vets did it two or three weeks after getting into game.
I can still remember that one guy using three accounts to farm beacons even though he was barely able to drive an artemis with two gargoyle alts supporting him with RR and RSA.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

Cassius wrote:

Ville, getting old fast, was funny once.

Syndic, it might be safer to farm them on Alpha, but bullshit, you can generate the same income from them no matter where you run them, with the right organization. You guys are organized, remember? And macro comments ... Keep repeating them until they stick, we both know it's not even remotely on topic here.

Zoom, wow. In my opinion you are missing the point big time. This is griefing, plain and simple. It's against the rules of your game. Remember when red NPCs on alpha were unleashed and players from all side would deliberately drag them to the terminals to aggro on unsuspecting players? All allowed within the game mechanics. But it was griefing within those game mechanics. It was changed. Now veteran players are using game mechanics to grief mostly your newer players, and your Alpha players. Its that simple. You as Devs need the generally 85% Alpha player base product consumption to supplement and allow a 15% PvP player base to exist. It's not my income that's ultimately on the line here.

Ps in a game starved for content, "nerf content" is the wrong solution.
Also, when Ville quotes this and offers his repetitive generic patronizing reply, please delete it as it offers no content to this thread.

Player Cassius, it saddens me to know that you are getting tired of my positive reinforced feedback to the community sad  I do find it dishearten to see that your once "we were tired of being harassed with vile nonsense" to now "we don't like you being nice and providing constructive positive feedback" sad  It makes me wonder if you truly know what you want.  I wish to offer positive support to Tamas!  Players should not be allowed to be griefed on Alpha!  Alpha is a zone were players can do Exactly what they want to do, when they want to do it!  We should encourage these behaviors!  Behaviors like this should be promoted that players do not strike out in rage!  These players should be protected at ALL costs.  Until they get bored not having any challenges reach maximum bot size acquire massive amounts of wealth and go on and play other Steam games.  sad   Player Cassius, I wish to offer you this piece of knowledge, whether you wish to act upon my act of goodness or not is upto you.  Why as a player should the standard PVE guys have to walk across the map to find the best spawns on alpha when they can merely pop a beacon down 1K away from the terminal and farm large amounts of good there while having very minimal hauling?  Why?  Because the intent was to promote having to move away from the station and slow the amount of nic per hour by providing hauling.  Player Cassius beacons don't do that sad  they promote being lazy and making vast resource wealth.  Does anyone Manufacture T1 modules anymore player Cassius?  No.  They farm beacons.  Player Cassius beacons ruin the economy.  They physically reduce the demand of minerals.  Noone produces T1 modules, when you reach 10,000 T1 Medium plates you recycle them for 1 million+ Titanium.  It just ruins the game in general and makes living on Alpha too safe and so much more profitable than living on beta, sad  I look forward to your following comments.  I greatly value your feedback.  I hope Player Cassius you fully understand what I am telling you.  I hope that it brings insight on why these type of mechanics are used to help promote fair game play.  Player Cassius I care for your well being and I wish for you to have most pleasant day!  Take care and be safe.

@ Developer Zoom, Hello.
First I would like to thank you for the time you have dedicated for reading this post.  I want you to know that I as a player wish to do nothing but promote equal and fair game play using positive mannerisms and tactics used similar throught the United States to help others feel appreciated in their thoughts and Ideology.  I wish you a most pleasant career path.  I sincerely hope you will take this following idea I have to put forth.  My Idea would be to place a T5 faction specific spawn 1K from every Beta station/outpost.  This would help incentives living on Beta.  I hope you take this idea into the deepest regards.  Sincerely.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

OMG Ville!!!! Idea.....

Zoom get rid of t1 loot from beacons. All of it!. Leave only the t2-t4+ drops the kernels, plasma and fragments.

Ville is absolutely correct look at markets for t1 items one day someone did a clean out sale. 6k to 10k t1 items all t1 items. (plates, frames resists, reps, launchers... ect ect

Participate, Congratulate cause everything else will be seen as HATE.
Max yellow max all skills lvl 10 min max for the win

84 (edited by Tamas Vitez 2014-07-02 17:54:26)

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

It is also interesting that one of the wealthiest individuals/corporations are preaching about new players catching up to vets. You wanna stop others making money. Money you have, others not so much. I sense fear.

Industrial Junkie

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

Players Tamas, Jita, Cassius:

I wish to ask you, when was the last time you manufactured in bulk T1 plates, repairers and t1 Lwf?

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

For a while we've been already thinking about removing or drastically reducing T1 loot in the whole game, to incentivize T1 production.

87 (edited by Annihilator 2014-07-02 18:46:26)

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

DEV Zoom wrote:

For a while we've been already thinking about removing or drastically reducing T1 loot in the whole game and remove the recycling extension, to incentivize T1 production.

fixed that sentence for you, just before the *** starts wink

if fully support this decision, if its executed with all consequences

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

Annihilator wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

For a while we've been already thinking about removing or drastically reducing T1 loot in the whole game and remove the recycling extension, to incentivize T1 production.

fixed that sentence for you, just before the *** starts wink

if fully support this decision, if its executed with all consequences

Yeah, because people only use recycling for T1 items right? roll

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

Developer Zoom!

Hello!  I would first like to state thank you for understanding the mechanics and what's wrong.  Furthermore I find by drastically (75%+) lowering T1 drops I think globally help stimulate T1 production.  I support this Idea!  Also what a fantastic and wonderful comeback to Annis post.  Quality posting like that will definitely be great!  Thanks for your time!  Sincerely.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

Developer Zoom!

I wish to seek your ear for just a moment more.  If you as a game developer wish to reduce T1 drops may I implore you to consider giving us something in return.  I ask humbly that we bargain collectively for this:

1.  A new prototype extension.  So we can have 10 additional slots for prototyping. (I know you can buy the T1 off the market and RE it.). We just need it on a corp scale.
2.  Increase fragment drops from npcs 50 to -100%.

These two items would help the community so much!  Thank you for your time!

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

Ville wrote:

Developer Zoom!

I wish to seek your ear for just a moment more.  If you as a game developer wish to reduce T1 drops may I implore you to consider giving us something in return.  I ask humbly that we bargain collectively for this:

1.  A new prototype extension.  So we can have 10 additional slots for prototyping. (I know you can buy the T1 off the market and RE it.). We just need it on a corp scale.
2.  Increase fragment drops from npcs 50 to -100%.

These two items would help the community so much!  Thank you for your time!

Please revisit the extensions around prototyping time. The time it takes prototype items is crazy and has always been crazy.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

DeathPaw wrote:

Of course CIR/PHM/77 would like to see distress beacons become beta/gamma only, LOOK WHO PRESENTLY OWNS ALL OF THE BETA ISLANDS!  They are constantly pushing their own agenda, instead of trying to make the game better.

MAYBE JUST MAYBE it will give more reasons for people to stop sitting on their hands on Alpha ?

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:
DeathPaw wrote:

Of course CIR/PHM/77 would like to see distress beacons become beta/gamma only, LOOK WHO PRESENTLY OWNS ALL OF THE BETA ISLANDS!  They are constantly pushing their own agenda, instead of trying to make the game better.

MAYBE JUST MAYBE it will give more reasons for people to stop sitting on their hands on Alpha ?

Obi, please name one incentive in EvE that brought carebears out of Highsec to Low/Null.
The answer is zero. I don't mean on an individual level I mean on the paradigm shift level. It will never happen. EvE needs the carebears to pay the bills, end of discussion. Same applies to this games model. Period. It doesn't matter who controls what now, or did in the past, or will in the future. Its a simple law of this type of full loot drop MMO. You cannot force players to play in an single area. The best you can do to have more players is have varied areas. That's it.

Why don't the Devs make every island Beta. Let's see how long the game survives.

Ville I didn't read your reply. Try english or maybe PM me if you think its important I do, otherwise I respect your right not to bother.

Syndic, did something change? Loot cans blow up now? A little different than loot cans not dropping. And are you saying you justify griefing new players on Alpha because of a recent Dev mechanic change that probably won't last?
Makes sense. And macros ... Umm proof as mentioned?? There are enough players everywhere in game for someone to fraps this, no reason to even listen to you without proof. Unless you want to derail the topic.

The OP asked a question to change the ownership rules for beacons. Zoom did I miss your reply? Just curious.

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

Cassius wrote:

Zoom did I miss your reply?

I think so.

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

DEV Zoom wrote:

For a while we've been already thinking about removing or drastically reducing T1 loot in the whole game, to incentivize T1 production.

Honestly i think this is the wrong thing. The reason people dont produce t1 is that they have a *** of it from ratting. The reason they have that is its worthless to recycle so reducing the mats requirements will actually make the situation worse not better.

One of the worst changes made was reducing recycle amount and changing mineral requirements. It made t1 loot pretty worthless whereas before ratting would be a significant mineral producer which really helped new corps with production and made ratting worthwhile.

So in reality if you want to make t1 production happen make t1 mods more expensive from a mineral point of view and not less. This will mean a lot of mods will get recycled and as its more costly to buy people will be more likely to build. It will also help new players making low level production and ratting more worthwhile.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

Jita wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

For a while we've been already thinking about removing or drastically reducing T1 loot in the whole game, to incentivize T1 production.

Honestly i think this is the wrong thing. The reason people dont produce t1 is that they have a *** of it from ratting. The reason they have that is its worthless to recycle so reducing the mats requirements will actually make the situation worse not better.

One of the worst changes made was reducing recycle amount and changing mineral requirements. It made t1 loot pretty worthless whereas before ratting would be a significant mineral producer which really helped new corps with production and made ratting worthwhile.

So in reality if you want to make t1 production happen make t1 mods more expensive from a mineral point of view and not less. This will mean a lot of mods will get recycled and as its more costly to buy people will be more likely to build. It will also help new players making low level production and ratting more worthwhile.


The reason no one uses T1 except in suicide fits is because the gap between T1 and T4 is so vast.  T4 should give a slight edge not be required for every meaningful engagement.  As usual, this gap hurts the newbies the most. 

The gap between T1 and T4 should be like 3%.  Example, T1 signal mask 35%.. T4 55%...   This means the difference between T1 and T4 is equal to lvl 0 and lvl 10 skills respectively.  Range extender 10% for T1 15% for T4 (T4 is **50%** better), etc.  *** is inconsistent and heavily favors vets(more money, more EP) in every engagement.  (4+ year issue)

You still have tons of other new-player issues like sparks not being available to everyone... Bot speeds are slow as *** across the board and frankly every single one could use a 33%+ base speed increase (4+ year issue).

Remove the cheats from NPCs and take the *** hardeners off at least half of the existing ones, it's ridiculous that almost every single one has one + plates (4+ year issue).

TLDR: If you made T1 not *** people would use it.  Play your game and make notes of the obstacles you encounter that seem unreasonable (there are many).  Steam players down 60%, there are reasons, exit surveys?  I can promise you "The game is too easy and needs more time and money sinks" will not be answers.

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

This thread has gotten way way off topic, and to reiterate the original point made by the OP, people not in your squad should not be able to activate beacons and steal your loot. You can argue till you're blue in the face, but Tamas isn't botting, and Syndic's pals are following him around trying to grief him by activating the beacons. We all know how CIR/77th like to grief people on alpha, which is why the RED npcs are gone from alpha (so you have yourselves to thank for macro miners being completely safe on alpha now.... /applause).

Everything else being discussed in this topic is fluff that needs to be deleted, and their own topic opened.

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

Make it squad only activation.... but make them targetable and killable like a teleport. End thread. yarr

Anonymous: lobo is the only hero left in this god foresaken game / :also, Lobo is god among men
http://killboard.sequer.nl/?a=agent-his … mp;month=7 Best month 104 to 1 k/d

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

Wait.. since when can non-squad players even activate them?

Re: Beacon activation and ownership

Lobo wrote:

Make it squad only activation.... but make them targetable and killable like a teleport. End thread. yarr