Topic: There are problem with EP

About it lot of people have already spoken, but solving the problem was not sounded: We have a crazy gap between veterans and newbies because of EP. What are the implications?
1) The simple human envy.
2) Lots of reasons for offence, trolling and leaving.
3) PvP zones are closed for new corps and alliances.
4) At least there are no sporting interest. We all know that veterans will totally dominate everywhere just because of more features/resources/research/everything.

So and what for we need the game? (to be able to beat children bicycle chain?)
What future wait the perpetuum? (In another words: how many time veterans should/want/ready wait before they get interesting PvP?)

Personal: I know the people in another projects, but i never call them in to perpetuum. Why? Because of perpetuum can't give the interesting gameplay. I'm not going to ask the people to pay their accounts and wait about 1 year before they can compete with old players. Or what? They should loot containers while my mesmer shoot NPCs on spots?

Of course i have some thought/offer. Preamble:

1) I don't know if my topic affected on the DeV's or other's/not - this is no really matter. Main point the payment model been changed and it was a right step. But i think it will be good for DeVs to earn some extra money.
2) As i said above - the newbies needs a help with EP. They should play instead of awaiting required features.
3) Of course veterans should suffer a bit for their own benefit - but not too much.

Economic design:

I dunno if DeVelopers asked themself: How much money should pay each player for their product? How much time shoud play each player?
After such questions much easier to design a whole game process.

If you wanna the people who will pay the account activation and leave in few days - it's ok, keep the game as it is. (easiest way)
If you wanna the people who will play and pay a lot... - you have to change something. Because of people not going to play the game where they will totally lose.

So I have idea... Idea doesn't means "a finished solution". It have to be discussed a lot before applying.

There are need to change EP boost mechanic. It should be more complicated.
I have oldest (non interrupted) account subscription since release. As result there about 2 million EP. How many EP have the new player? (40k? - lol...)
I think that newbies should get much more EP than me for EP booster.

Steps:
1) Before the everyday EP calculations need to determine maximum possible EP. (the game age)
2) Detedmine how much time should spend the people to fill the EP gap. (i think that a half year would be fine)
3) Calculate EP booster.

First exampe:
1) There are three years old game. So we have 365 days * 3 years = 1095 days
2) EP gap time 30 days per month * 6 months = 180 days.
3) EP booster = 1095 / 180 * 1440 = 8760 EP

Of course we need to retain demand for EP boosters. As variant we can use some coefficient:

1) Determine the maximum and account EPs.
2) Recalculate EP booster to get final result:
EP booster = Max EP / account EP * 0,75 * 1440
3) Recalculate account EP
starting 40000 + account age * 1440 + EP booster

Second example:

1) There are 1095 days since start the game and 2 month account (60 days).
2) Maximum EP = 1095 * 1440 = 1576800 EP
Account EP = 60 * 2 * 1440 = 172800 EP

EP booster = Max EP / account EP * 0,75 * 1440 = 1576800 / 172800 * 0,75 * 1440 = 9855

Here the table how it works in progress:

gm age  max EP  acc age acc ep          EP booster
1095	1576800	1	41440	
1096	1578240	2	83974,20849	41094,20849
1097	1579680	3	64617,88944	20297,88944
1098	1581120	4	72162,19937	26402,19937
1099	1582560	5	70863,49162	23663,49162
1100	1584000	6	72759,11636	24119,11636
1101	1585440	7	73592,10523	23512,10523
1102	1586880	8	74787,10446	23267,10446
1103	1588320	9	75876,12187	22916,12187
1104	1589760	10	77007,71317	22607,71317
1105	1591200	11	78135,69908	22295,69908
1106	1592640	12	79273,7368	21993,7368
1107	1594080	13	80417,61726	21697,61726
1108	1595520	14	81568,32393	21408,32393
1109	1596960	15	82725,37707	21125,37707
1110	1598400	16	83888,70279	20848,70279
1111	1599840	17	85058,12247	20578,12247
1112	1601280	18	86233,48859	20313,48859
1113	1602720	19	87414,64963	20054,64963
1114	1604160	20	88601,45899	19801,45899
1115	1605600	21	89793,77281	19553,77281
1116	1607040	22	90991,45051	19311,45051
1117	1608480	23	92194,35468	19074,35468
1118	1609920	24	93402,3511	18842,3511
1119	1611360	25	94615,30871	18615,30871
1120	1612800	26	95833,09963	18393,09963
1121	1614240	27	97055,59911	18175,59911
1122	1615680	28	98282,68547	17962,68547
1123	1617120	29	99514,24015	17754,24015
1124	1618560	30	100750,1476	17550,14757
1125	1620000	31	101990,2952	17350,29518
1126	1621440	32	103234,5734	17154,57335
1127	1622880	33	104482,8754	16962,87535
1128	1624320	34	105735,0973	16775,0973
1129	1625760	35	106991,1381	16591,13809
...................................................
1250	1800000	156	271823,1989	7183,198859
1251	1801440	157	273231,7075	7151,707463
1252	1802880	158	274640,5323	7120,532306
1253	1804320	159	276049,6688	7089,668752
...................................................
3100	4464000	2006	2930285,551	1645,550869
3101	4465440	2007	2931725,273	1645,273103
3102	4466880	2008	2933164,996	1644,995609
3103	4468320	2009	2934604,718	1644,718387
...................................................
3388	4878720	2294	3344935,436	1575,435698
3389	4880160	2295	3346375,223	1575,222512
3390	4881600	2296	3347815,01	1575,00951
...................................................
4756	6848640	3662	5314671,804	1391,803737
4757	6850080	3663	5316111,719	1391,719277
4758	6851520	3664	5317551,635	1391,634862

Discuss/troll

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: There are problem with EP

Simple,

Reroll server

tried to convince them


give vets free boosts for X months or something


Told you so, Zoom.

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."

Re: There are problem with EP

+1, why can't we have purchased bulk ep?  For $20 you get X ep and you can only do it once a month?

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4 (edited by Rage Blackout 2014-06-11 21:30:40)

Re: There are problem with EP

Also, I am not boosting because I am not paying 10$ for 720 ep per day no thanks when I used to pay for 1440 per day.   now the 1440 is free, see what i mean its crazy

just crazy

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."

Re: There are problem with EP

I've only played one time-based progression, full-loot pvp sandbox game and it was / is Perp.

How is this skill or experience point gulf treated in other games with similar progression systems?

There has been an awakening... Have you felt it?

Re: There are problem with EP

EVE is similar time based but they have implants to boost it.


Implants are/can be very expensive and you risk losing them in PvP



Stradivar wrote:

I've only played one time-based progression, full-loot pvp sandbox game and it was / is Perp.

How is this skill or experience point gulf treated in other games with similar progression systems?

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."

7 (edited by Chemist 2014-06-11 22:45:41)

Re: There are problem with EP

I want SP boost in eve.
I want lvl boost in lineage 2
i want lvl boost in wow
i want exp boost in wot
i want.. i want.. i want...
gap! gap! omfg! GAP! it's everywhere! help!
because i not saw this games early...

Devs. just set all skill in 10 to all. But even in this case, there will always be whiners...

Re: There are problem with EP

OR cut the normal accrual in half and keep the boosted ep where it is now.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

9 (edited by Hunter 2014-06-12 05:04:54)

Re: There are problem with EP

I quite understand the opposite opinion: I invested a lot of money so I want to have an advantage.

But what would be better? Having advantage or a good game? Humiliation people certainly very cheerful process. But believe me it's fun only for you. The word "game" should mean fun for everyone.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: There are problem with EP

If you get 50 active people and manage to organise them, and play 3 month you are able to compete with any faction ingame!

Just need ORGANISATION, and a LOT OF REAL TIME WORK from the leaderships.

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: There are problem with EP

Inda wrote:

If you get 50 active people and manage to organise them, and play 3 month you are able to compete with any faction ingame!

Just need ORGANISATION, and a LOT OF REAL TIME WORK from the leaderships.

50 active people against 10 active veterans? smile

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: There are problem with EP

Yes !

But need many many losses to be experienced.

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

13 (edited by Hunter 2014-06-12 06:23:53)

Re: There are problem with EP

Inda wrote:

Yes !

But need many many losses to be experienced.

The ppl wont play this way.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: There are problem with EP

Chemist wrote:

I want SP boost in eve.
I want lvl boost in lineage 2
i want lvl boost in wow
i want exp boost in wot
i want.. i want.. i want...
gap! gap! omfg! GAP! it's everywhere! help!
because i not saw this games early...

Devs. just set all skill in 10 to all. But even in this case, there will always be whiners...

I don't usually agree with Chemist, but this time I agree with Chemist.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: There are problem with EP

Жостко Хант) Тоненько и в точку.

Re: There are problem with EP

Inda wrote:

If you get 50 active people and manage to organise them, and play 3 month you are able to compete with any faction ingame!

Just need ORGANISATION, and a LOT OF REAL TIME WORK from the leaderships.

^^ +1, that is what my corp and allies do, i said it in recruiting thread, they are very very active in game and TS.

Ignorance is curable, Stupidity is not.
The "Planet of the Apes" is not science fiction, is a daily reality.
All is in "The Matrix".
See Beyond the Obvious.

Re: There are problem with EP

Yall throw 4 people in a UFC ring and watch them fight to the death and u want them all to be on the same footing ..... U cant ... some people will be vets in the sport for years .. some fresh blood ... some great stand up game .. some good ground game ... Fools playing Hungry Hungry Hippo and want every Hippo to win with the same amount of marbles ... PRO TIP ! if your a Noob and getting into the game .. MAKE FRIENDS with a vet so he can show you some early builds and how to stream line your crap insted of putting Minimal points into every skill so you can roll in a Grop or a Tyrone-a-saurs .. then qq that your not the Pokey master and you lack the ability to " Catch Um All" ....

I say just get rid of all EP for everyone .. NO SKILLS at all .. put everyone in Ark's with tiny lazers .. only one Island .. 2 forts on diffrent sides of the islands and let people spawn in the forts and PEW PEW for 24 hours till one faction ownes the island ... then they WIN .. GAME OVER MAN !! GAME OVER !!! ... then pour Iced coffee in your rig  .. go to Cinnibon get a Sticky roll jam it in your fat face ! Hold a M80 in your Chubby little umpa-Lumpa hands light it .. jump off a low building and only break your legs ..

NOW we are all even !!

NO rig having
Sticky bun Face drippin
One handed
broken Leg-ed-dedd
fools !

in the famous words of Willy Wonka
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yT1GHoFiAw

""GOOD DAY SIR ! .... I SAID GOOD DAY !!! ""

Re: There are problem with EP

Tyrone Biggumz wrote:

Yall throw 4 people in a UFC ring and watch them fight to the death and u want them all to be on the same footing ..... U cant ... some people will be vets in the sport for years .. some fresh blood ... some great stand up game .. some good ground game ... Fools playing Hungry Hungry Hippo and want every Hippo to win with the same amount of marbles ... PRO TIP ! if your a Noob and getting into the game .. MAKE FRIENDS with a vet so he can show you some early builds and how to stream line your crap insted of putting Minimal points into every skill so you can roll in a Grop or a Tyrone-a-saurs .. then qq that your not the Pokey master and you lack the ability to " Catch Um All" ....

I say just get rid of all EP for everyone .. NO SKILLS at all .. put everyone in Ark's with tiny lazers .. only one Island .. 2 forts on diffrent sides of the islands and let people spawn in the forts and PEW PEW for 24 hours till one faction ownes the island ... then they WIN .. GAME OVER MAN !! GAME OVER !!! ... then pour Iced coffee in your rig  .. go to Cinnibon get a Sticky roll jam it in your fat face ! Hold a M80 in your Chubby little umpa-Lumpa hands light it .. jump off a low building and only break your legs ..

NOW we are all even !!

NO rig having
Sticky bun Face drippin
One handed
broken Leg-ed-dedd
fools !

in the famous words of Willy Wonka
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yT1GHoFiAw

""GOOD DAY SIR ! .... I SAID GOOD DAY !!! ""

I love this guy.  BTW read corp topic!

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: There are problem with EP

I do not want to offend anyone. But reading the forum I imagine a little (but very fat) kids. In the hands of these children big candy. They hold these candies with both hands and looks angrily at all around.

We can quote anyone, invent anything. But the game won't revive itself.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: There are problem with EP

GAm = sers bsns gaiz, stop troling omfk, r ur hands growin out of yer asss guyz?

Pls tak this topic cerealously father on. No troling or go injekt trolosilol in you veins.

I believe pvp could be very exciting and the game has what it takes. But this is game is ruined and we all know  by who, it´s by corps like CiR, -77- and PHM. - by Fu ManChu

Re: There are problem with EP

You quitting would be a first step though.

Hunter wrote:

I do not want to offend anyone. But reading the forum I imagine a little (but very fat) kids. In the hands of these children big candy. They hold these candies with both hands and looks angrily at all around.

We can quote anyone, invent anything. But the game won't revive itself.

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."

Re: There are problem with EP

Rage Blackout wrote:

You quitting would be a first step though.

I don't see a problem if there will be lot's of players around with same EP amount as me.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: There are problem with EP

Chemist wrote:

Хант, а смысл тогда? Давайте сразу всем скиллы в 10? Рано или поздно, но они уравняются. Так зачем тянуть время? Сделаем пвп-сервер.
В том и смысл тайм--баз игр. Стремление к чему-либо. А так поиграются и бросят.

First of all i hope that i won't need to translate your thoughts in future. Ok, let's talk about it now:

Chemist wrote:

Let's do the all skills  to lvl 10?

We can talk only about extreme points? Lvl 10 for every one or painful process and disparity? I'm sure there are more than two ways. I'm afraid you accustomed to low population in perpetuum. And you worry about your advantage more than success the game.

Chemist wrote:

Earlier or later it will be equal. Why we should to wait? Let's do a PvP server.

About early or later - it will be only if DeVs will stop develop the game. And i really doub if any noob going to wait this time.

Chemist wrote:

This is the meaning of time-based games. Aspiring to something. Else the ppl will play a bit and leave the game.

Ok you mean  EvE right? I've played EvE online. There are impossible to leave help channel the first month (if you leave this channel - you will be reconnected after next login). So the all newbies is there. And you know what? There are almost no the new people. I would say there are same inflow the newbies as in perpetuum. You can check it - go on, try to create new account it's really easy.

Personally i leaved the EvE because of i understood: There are nothing to do for me. Totally nothing. The game is quite good, quite understandable, quite interesting. But there are totally nothing to do for me as for player. How many years i should spend to be able join any good corp. How many corps with SPY-marasmus? I don't even say about creating the new corporation which consist on new players. NEWFRESH CORPORATION IMPOSSIBLE IN EVE.

...i spending so much efforts to explain. I have to stop with that.

TL;DR: If the players can't understand it - this is a their problem. If DeV's won't understand it... Well good luck.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...