Re: Bring back police towers

Ville wrote:

Alpha 2s would be a war zone and you'd be sticking all the bears on 3 islands.

Just like empire space.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Bring back police towers

Can you clearly explain how police towers work?

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Re: Bring back police towers

police towers did work pretty simple: when you opened fire on someone that had no PvP flag, you got a red skull flag, and when you entered the range of the tower, it killed you in one shot. (exception, some insane shield tanks could survive a few shots)

they got removed because the punishment had no lasting effect. you could just undock from the terminal like nothing had happened, nor got your standing reduced.

and well, you know, turret AI is very unpredictable in this game fuuu

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Re: Bring back police towers

Ville wrote:

Can you clearly explain how police towers work?

They gave the illusion of safety. They could probably be done better now.

Re: Bring back police towers

Tonnik wrote:

... They could probably be done better now.

thats a questionable thesis. lets see how well the turret AI on Gamma will be regarding responding to friendly fire.

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Re: Bring back police towers

At this stage in the game we would just suicide bots into our enemys ALL the time.  everyone would turtle up on 3 islands, and the TPs would have to be revamped for safe traveling.

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Re: Bring back police towers

Ville wrote:

At this stage in the game we would just suicide bots into our enemys ALL the time.  everyone would turtle up on 3 islands, and the TPs would have to be revamped for safe traveling.

thats what happened on ics alpha and led to the current no-pvp zones...
imagine what would happen if your standing with the npc corps would have an impact on those police towers? when your down in the reds they would just shoot you without agression, and the standing of your agent, and your corp would drop when you shoot at someone without pvp flag on npc-faction islands.

it wasn't done, because pvp corps would have ended stuck on beta islands, and eventually had to rely on alpha dewllers to deliver goods to beta. it would have suddenly had a consequence to just shoot everyone that just came through a teleporter.

thats would have been just to complex for m2s

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33 (edited by Celebro 2014-08-12 19:39:30)

Re: Bring back police towers

Annihilator wrote:

it wasn't done, because pvp corps would have ended stuck on beta islands, and eventually had to rely on alpha dewllers to deliver goods to beta.

Wrong, alpha alts would be used for that.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Bring back police towers

Ville wrote:

Can you clearly explain how police towers work?

How they worked in Closed Beta would not be the way to have them now. Like Jita said they could be done better now.

Think low sec in eve with the gate and station guns when someone shots another player near them. But in perp it was instant death for the aggressor.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Bring back police towers

Celebro wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

it wasn't done, because pvp corps would have ended stuck on beta islands, and eventually had to rely on alpha dewllers to deliver goods to beta.

Wrong, alpha alts would be used for that.

A bit snarky aye?

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36 (edited by Ludlow Bursar 2014-08-13 09:35:11)

Re: Bring back police towers

What's the point of police towers? Why invent something new? (Well, re-invent)

If you want security just spawn a bunch of mobs that de-spawn when they've done their job. Even opens up the possibility of zones having different calibre of mobs.

Re: Bring back police towers

Small turrets could be placed in beta around terminals and teleports only, but they can be tanked for a few minutes on heavies.

RIP PERPETUUM

38 (edited by Gremrod 2014-08-13 15:51:33)

Re: Bring back police towers

Ludlow Bursar wrote:

What's the point of police towers? Why invent something new? (Well, re-invent)

If you want security just spawn a bunch of mobs that de-spawn when they've done their job. Even opens up the possibility of zones having different calibre of mobs.

The main reason is to have a progression of security. Right now we 100% safe or 100% unsafe. Islands that have a mix of secure and insecure areas give a progression of game play to a certain aspect.

These type of areas also lead to different styles of game play than the islands with 100% unsafe areas.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Bring back police towers

Celebro wrote:

Small turrets could be placed in beta around terminals and teleports only, but they can be tanked for a few minutes on heavies.

No. I think beta should stay the way it is right now. If this was done I would suggest that beta 1 islands only.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Bring back police towers

Gremrod wrote:
Ludlow Bursar wrote:

What's the point of police towers? Why invent something new? (Well, re-invent)

If you want security just spawn a bunch of mobs that de-spawn when they've done their job. Even opens up the possibility of zones having different calibre of mobs.

The main reason is to have a progression of security. Right now we 100% safe or 100% unsafe.

Yes, I get that. But why re-invent the police tower when there's a perfectly good way to implement security progression now without having to bother.

41 (edited by Gremrod 2014-08-13 16:24:31)

Re: Bring back police towers

Ludlow Bursar wrote:
Gremrod wrote:
Ludlow Bursar wrote:

What's the point of police towers? Why invent something new? (Well, re-invent)

If you want security just spawn a bunch of mobs that de-spawn when they've done their job. Even opens up the possibility of zones having different calibre of mobs.

The main reason is to have a progression of security. Right now we 100% safe or 100% unsafe.

Yes, I get that. But why re-invent the police tower when there's a perfectly good way to implement security progression now without having to bother.

Please explain the perfectly good way. smile

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Bring back police towers

Gremrod wrote:

Please explain the perfectly good way. smile

Using the existing mechanic for spawning NPCs in gangs that range from "barely able to scratch the paint" to "Swarm of double-hard bastard Observers".

You commit a misdemeanor and wham! A proportionate force spawns, kills you and then de-spawns. Proportionate force can depend on anything you like really: you, your bot, your buddies, the level of security in the area, the time of the day, your relations, your corp relations etc etc.

Exploitable for gain, sure, it's bound to be ... a bit. How much depends on the detail. The main point is that using an existing mechanic and some thought a really fluid progression of security system can be created that has consequences across other parts of a players game.

43 (edited by Gremrod 2014-08-13 17:25:01)

Re: Bring back police towers

Ludlow Bursar wrote:
Gremrod wrote:

Please explain the perfectly good way. smile

Using the existing mechanic for spawning NPCs in gangs that range from "barely able to scratch the paint" to "Swarm of double-hard bastard Observers".

You commit a misdemeanor and wham! A proportionate force spawns, kills you and then de-spawns. Proportionate force can depend on anything you like really: you, your bot, your buddies, the level of security in the area, the time of the day, your relations, your corp relations etc etc.

Exploitable for gain, sure, it's bound to be ... a bit. How much depends on the detail. The main point is that using an existing mechanic and some thought a really fluid progression of security system can be created that has consequences across other parts of a players game.

Both ideas use existing mechanics and would work to reach the end goal. But I think the police towers would be easier for them to put in place. The maps would also still need to have indicators of the safe areas; which the towers had and the npcs don't

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Bring back police towers

i like instant punishment better then delayed one by npcs that first need to spawn, then lock the target, etc...

police towers weapon is listed as missile launcher with missiles - but because of the delay between agression and punishment it was not good enough to prevent alpha suicide ganks.
later when the extension levels of the bad guys, and their assets grow so high that it was enough to just undock with 6 t1 loot fit kains on alpha to alphastrike any noob undocking, it displayed that even instant death was not fast enough (it need instant death of all agressors before their weapon fires to be efficient)

But no matter how and how FAST the punishment is carried out - its useless if it only means the loss of a robot for the agressor and nothing else.

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Re: Bring back police towers

There are people who never leave Alpha and would likely not play if they were getting ganked there.  I have seen 'no suicide ganking in hisec' used as a selling point to newbies more than once.

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: Bring back police towers

Yeah...If we could stop recycling old content that would be great.

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Re: Bring back police towers

I like the idea but suicide ganking without any punishment (syndicate kill list or something) is just obscenely OP. Even if they added a form (concord standing) the game world is way too small we would need many more alpha islands. Right now there is little space to hide from ganks.

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Re: Bring back police towers

Crepitus wrote:

There are people who never leave Alpha and would likely not play if they were getting ganked there.  I have seen 'no suicide ganking in hisec' used as a selling point to newbies more than once.

My idea was that Alpha 1 islands would not change and would stay 100% safe.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Bring back police towers

I think you forget how small the world is for people that aren't in your cult Gremrod, get off your ivory tower and try to see it from the position of a new struggling corp or group of players that only want to PVE.  You'd effectively limit their game to 3 islands

50 (edited by Gremrod 2014-08-15 14:45:05)

Re: Bring back police towers

Jelan wrote:

I think you forget how small the world is for people that aren't in your cult Gremrod, get off your ivory tower and try to see it from the position of a new struggling corp or group of players that only want to PVE.  You'd effectively limit their game to 3 islands

I have thought about this very issue. There are a lot of things that need to happen before the police tower system is brought back into the game. I totally understand it.

I think an additional new 6 100% safe islands would need to be put in place. Some balancing between alpha 1 and 2 islands. I think another 6 alpha 2 islands would be needed also.

Remember the main thread that links to this thread and a couple of threads I started state that this is my 50k foot view of the islands.

Also, I would not be limiting their game to 3 or 9 islands. If they choose to not use the other islands that is their choice. They would only be limiting themselves.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23