Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
That wasn't even directed to you, keep sucking the lollipop.
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ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM (Page 12 of 13)
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- JOKE
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277 2014-06-26 15:04:15 (edited by Gunner 2014-06-26 15:05:59)
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
The statement you made is incorrect.
As a matter of fact it is pretty lazy suggesting that ewar wins the fight.
a lie as a matter of fact to push a BS agenda
=============
The argument is equivalent to: I cant shoot anyone because my bot was destroyed by DPS focused fire.
I am not saying any more than that.
- PHM
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
I got the fit in mind for the Vagabond mk2, but the vagabond mk1 is boned.
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279 2014-06-26 22:24:59 (edited by Syndic 2014-06-26 22:25:44)
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
Ozy wrote:
and then you get messed up by a single suppressor. the crux is that double amps + double eccms are what's required to have a somewhat functioning ewar defense. for mechs, this means sacrificing all (but one, in the case of some mk2s) headslots and in the case of heavies you get 1-2 headslots to do other stuff with. Sure, RSAs could mitigate this, but dedicated logi hasn't been around since the nerf, at least according to the killboards.
False.
ECCM's affect supressors just like they do ECM's.
Trading damage tunings for EW resistance is a valid choice to be made. I do it and win fights all the time.
Dedicated logi has been around;
http://killboard.sequer.nl/?a=kill&kill_id=44253
+ Ours, but ours don't get killed.
The game is perfectly balanced currently, every role is viable but not overpowered. Fleets need to be built on combined arms not on who can spam more heavies.
Heavies are not the ultimate god-machine robot meant to destroy everything. It's a heavy weapon platform that needs support to function adequately.
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
All this *** about 2 ECCM's make heavies immune to ECM. Couldn't the ewar pilots then just add an ecm tuner to mitigate the effect of ECCM? Or is that too difficult of a concept to grasp? How many ECCM's should a bot have to fit to mitigate the effect of ewar? 3? 4? 5? 6? Isnt this the premise of pvp in this game? Fits, and counter fits?
Ewar mechs are never dead against any mech, as the ewar mech usually will have a range advantage and always has a speed advantage.
Sorry, couldn't be bothered to quote that which I was responding to...
Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
Shadowmine wrote:
All this *** about 2 ECCM's make heavies immune to ECM. Couldn't the ewar pilots then just add an ecm tuner to mitigate the effect of ECCM? Or is that too difficult of a concept to grasp? How many ECCM's should a bot have to fit to mitigate the effect of ewar? 3? 4? 5? 6? Isnt this the premise of pvp in this game? Fits, and counter fits?
Ewar pilots can just add more headslots I suppose. As headslots not tight enough as it is.
I have said many times I have no problem removing the ewar tuners from the game. They were added in year or two ago for? what reason?
282 2014-06-26 23:41:21 (edited by Gunner 2014-06-26 23:42:17)
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
When you field Mech Ewar against us, we deal with it and stomp your face.
I dont know what more to say.
You guys are like 2% in to what is needed for a good PvP team.
I dont understand the game therefore the rules and tools are not good.
.....
Shadowmine wrote:
All this *** about 2 ECCM's make heavies immune to ECM. Couldn't the ewar pilots then just add an ecm tuner to mitigate the effect of ECCM? Or is that too difficult of a concept to grasp? How many ECCM's should a bot have to fit to mitigate the effect of ewar? 3? 4? 5? 6? Isnt this the premise of pvp in this game? Fits, and counter fits?
Ewar mechs are never dead against any mech, as the ewar mech usually will have a range advantage and always has a speed advantage.
Sorry, couldn't be bothered to quote that which I was responding to...
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
Poor guy, you will only be able to equip 3 ECM's instead of 4... Oh the horror...
Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
I never use ECM tuners.
Hope that helps.
Shadowmine wrote:
Poor guy, you will only be able to equip 3 ECM's instead of 4... Oh the horror...
- CIR
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
Shadowmine wrote:
All this *** about 2 ECCM's make heavies immune to ECM. Couldn't the ewar pilots then just add an ecm tuner to mitigate the effect of ECCM? Or is that too difficult of a concept to grasp? How many ECCM's should a bot have to fit to mitigate the effect of ewar? 3? 4? 5? 6? Isnt this the premise of pvp in this game? Fits, and counter fits?
Ewar mechs are never dead against any mech, as the ewar mech usually will have a range advantage and always has a speed advantage.
Sorry, couldn't be bothered to quote that which I was responding to...
ECM tuning is the problem, I've been saying it for 10 pages.
ECM by itself is not the problem, 2x ECCM's are more then sufficient to deal with it.
EWar mech doesn't have a speed or range advantage against tackles, and tackles usually have superior sensor strength to heavies.
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
Gunner wrote:
When you field Mech Ewar against us, we deal with it and stomp your face.
I dont know what more to say.
So it must be balanced then, right? 
Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
Gunner wrote:
I never use ECM tuners.
Hope that helps.
Shadowmine wrote:Poor guy, you will only be able to equip 3 ECM's instead of 4... Oh the horror...
and I have NEVER used one, ever. And like Gunner said. it really just come down to "you suck at ewar" otherwise you would be OP too and clearly you are in Alpha. 
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
Syndic wrote:
ECM tuning is the problem, I've been saying it for 10 pages.
ECM by itself is not the problem, 2x ECCM's are more then sufficient to deal with it.
EWar mech doesn't have a speed or range advantage against tackles, and tackles usually have superior sensor strength to heavies.
If an ewar pilot can't jam out a tackle then it deserves to die.
Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
PvP in this game isnt just showing up.
There is a list of about 50 things you should be doing or practicing.
Showing up is 1/50
Shadowmine wrote:
Gunner wrote:When you field Mech Ewar against us, we deal with it and stomp your face.
I dont know what more to say.
So it must be balanced then, right?
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
Gunner wrote:
I never use ECM tuners.
Hope that helps.
Isnt that the problem? That there is currently no viable defence for a dps bot against ewar? If there was, you would have to use a tuner to compensate.
Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
Shadowmine wrote:
Gunner wrote:When you field Mech Ewar against us, we deal with it and stomp your face.
I dont know what more to say.
So it must be balanced then, right?
Thats only one in a long line of arguments used against the same ol phony 1v1 max EP numbers that no one knows where you come up with them from. You use tuners to boost your numbers, you don;t account for lower EP players, and you post post post post post post post post post post until the Devs throw up their hands. They have way too much going on to truly test this out and figure out ...
ITS NOT BROKEN
In the meantime just keep up your metagame. I know the Devs well enough to know you'll get your nerf soon enough.
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
Weedy wrote:
Burial wrote:Masking, speed, range, no LOS. What do you mean by completely vulnerable to DPS bots?
EWar bots with your proposed 'balanced' changes won't be able to do anything to stop DPS bots from killing them in a matter of seconds for being the glass-cannons as they are. LOS/masking/range don't matter in any way if there is a mech on your ***, you won't be able to stop it or delay it IN ANY WAY.
Basically, EWar pilots are pure PvP pilots. They ONLY thing they are useful for is PvP - their specialty is not needed in any other department of the game, not even ratting, because it is a lot more sufficient to bring an extra DPS bot. They can't farm, they can't make money, they are existing only by the support of others for the services they provide. If they don't have a miner account/DPS account, they cannot exist outside of corporation and outside of PvP - and I know quite a few people who only play a single dedicated EWar account. With your changes, by fitting 1-2 ECCM modules and putting 10-20k EP into ECCM skills, you want to render people who specced into this only role USELESS in the only field where they can do something.
It will basically destroy ANY need for those robots to be played by people and fielded in PvP, as they will be substituted by much better possible alternatives. IF those changes ever go live, free respecs must be handed out to accounts with skilled EWar, because they will be left useless in the ONLY area where they can have some use. And, EWar bots will also require a significant buff in some other area if they get nerfed EWar-wise, otherwise those bots will never be produced and bought and sold and fielded again. No new players will spec into EWar either, as when even veteran skills are going to be lackluster in the case of your suggested changes, newbie EWar pilots are just going to be a complete waste.
Also, EWar has NEVER been a problem - only several special people (or rather, a group of people) are rooting for those changes since a certain period of time. With that, devs also need to remember that on forums only a MINORITY of community is present (it is the same for the most games out there), and a MINORITY of that MINORITY is strongly trying to force these changes upon ALL OTHER players in-game. It is going to have huge repercussions if the bigger picture is actually taken into account - balance is only a small part of the question here, it is a question of gameplay, game design, and character development.
excellent post btw
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
Weedy wrote:
Burial wrote:Masking, speed, range, no LOS. What do you mean by completely vulnerable to DPS bots?
EWar bots with your proposed 'balanced' changes won't be able to do anything to stop DPS bots from killing them in a matter of seconds for being the glass-cannons as they are. LOS/masking/range don't matter in any way if there is a mech on your ***, you won't be able to stop it or delay it IN ANY WAY.
Say what? How does LOS/masking/range/ AND SPEED not matter in anyway? That is ridiculous, that is the basics of piloting ewar! God forbid you actually have to put an ecm tuner on your ewar bot, or (God forbid) a shield hardener! (Gasp!)
Weedy wrote:
It will basically destroy ANY need for those robots to be played by people and fielded in PvP, as they will be substituted by much better possible alternatives. IF those changes ever go live, free respecs must be handed out to accounts with skilled EWar, because they will be left useless in the ONLY area where they can have some use. And, EWar bots will also require a significant buff in some other area if they get nerfed EWar-wise, otherwise those bots will never be produced and bought and sold and fielded again. No new players will spec into EWar either, as when even veteran skills are going to be lackluster in the case of your suggested changes, newbie EWar pilots are just going to be a complete waste.
Improvise, Adapt, Overcome. Ewar mechs can have a decent tank if you are willing to not have a full rack of Suppressors and ECM's. The fact that there are pretty much De Facto standard fits with ewar mechs is not a good thing IMO.
Weedy wrote:
[Also, EWar has NEVER been a problem - only several special people (or rather, a group of people) are rooting for those changes since a certain period of time. With that, devs also need to remember that on forums only a MINORITY of community is present (it is the same for the most games out there), and a MINORITY of that MINORITY is strongly trying to force these changes upon ALL OTHER players in-game. It is going to have huge repercussions if the bigger picture is actually taken into account - balance is only a small part of the question here, it is a question of gameplay, game design, and character development.
Actually, this topic has been around the 2+ years that I have been playing Perp.. And I suspect much longer than that. You are correct that it is a small minority of people that post on the forums about such things as this. But there is also a very small minority of players in Perp that have enough experience and knowledge of the game to be able to have an educated opinion on the matter.
Tbh, its really like the same 5 guys on each side of the fence on most of these topics. We can stand around here jawjacking all day. But really all we are doing is shining a light on things we believe the DEV's should look at. And hope they make decisions for the benefit of all. Not just one side or the other.
Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.
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294 2014-06-27 00:37:43 (edited by Syndic 2014-06-27 00:39:20)
- CIR
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
We don't use tuners because we're fine not being able to ECM people with 2 ECCMs.
With ECM Tuners we could if we wanted to, and that's the problem.
ECM Tuners are the problem that needs to be fixed - there is no trade-off for 35% increase in strength.
We don't use injectors either, despite some homeboys claiming otherwise. Injectors don't exist in our fits for EWar, I should know I designed them.
- CIR
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
The bottom line is that the EWar nerf will go in regardless, and EWar will be probably worthless when considering cost of bot versus what it actually contributes to the fleet. At that point, 6 different compositions that currently suffer against EWar will become available, and then we break the game so thoroughly it will take years to unravel the balance mess.
For each mechanic nerf, 3 will become overpowered.
Until we're back to who can field more people.
3 fights and excuses about lags and DDoS after that, there won't be anything left to do except turn it into a 10v10 lobby shooter like world of tanks.
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
Wow, you are not wildly jumping to conclusions there, huh? 
Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
No.
Shadowmine wrote:
Wow, you are not wildly jumping to conclusions there, huh?
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
Syndic wrote:
The bottom line is that the EWar nerf will go in regardless, and EWar will be probably worthless when considering cost of bot versus what it actually contributes to the fleet. At that point, 6 different compositions that currently suffer against EWar will become available, and then we break the game so thoroughly it will take years to unravel the balance mess.
For each mechanic nerf, 3 will become overpowered.
Until we're back to who can field more people.
3 fights and excuses about lags and DDoS after that, there won't be anything left to do except turn it into a 10v10 lobby shooter like world of tanks.
And I believe the word you are looking for is "Balance" not "Nerf".
Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
Shadowmine wrote:
Say what? How does LOS/masking/range/ AND SPEED not matter in anyway? That is ridiculous, that is the basics of piloting ewar! God forbid you actually have to put an ecm tuner on your ewar bot, or (God forbid) a shield hardener! (Gasp!)
Shield hardener, really? Can I cram any other useless mods in my ewar bots head? WTF are you talking about?
Go do some more 1v1 analysis on ewar bots, and while your at it give that poor ewar mech 3 guns so he has a chance.
- JOKE
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Re: ECM / EW tuners / Supressors / ECCM
Exactly, why would EW ever need shield hardener, it's not like it's getting hit ever, right.
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