226 (edited by Inda 2014-05-21 08:05:12)

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Rage Rex wrote:

I am not advocating ANY terminal restrictions. There would be no need as long as the painted Zones are far enough away from TPs and each other not to bottleneck the island,

+1

I am fan about painted zone!

No need restriction go for terrafroming, go for creativity, go for Terminal vs Terminal fights (as was at Inda faults).

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: Gamma revamp testing

hmm, rage rex...
sounds like an idea...

now, think about the range of defense turrets, the minimum place even the smallest base needs,
and then the current maximum size limit for islands.
how many places can you paint green for terraforming, without possible creation of bottlenecks?

because pictures are sometimes easier to understand:
http://content.perpetuum-online.com/ima … radius.png

beta island, with a 3km circle around each outpost...

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

Annihilator wrote:

hmm, rage rex...
sounds like an idea...

now, think about the range of defense turrets, the minimum place even the smallest base needs,
and then the current maximum size limit for islands.
how many places can you paint green for terraforming, without possible creation of bottlenecks?

because pictures are sometimes easier to understand:
http://content.perpetuum-online.com/ima … radius.png

beta island, with a 3km circle around each outpost...

/let's out deep breathe of relief.

Finally some movement on this discussion. Perhaps the artists can render some drawings and the mathematicians can hammer out details. I'm only selling the concept.

(Also fore sale: shield walls and mining colixum without towers anymore.

229 (edited by Inda 2014-05-21 08:13:45)

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Benefits of a painted zone:

- simply and elegant, and easy (dont need much restriction, you can implement it very quickly)
- terraform stay as is it now (if you have a good feature you shouldn't remove from the game)
  > this allow creativity
  > gamma terminal vs gamma terminal fights (as was at Xiantor)

- Gammas will be roamable (the goal)

Bandwith and deployable distance is still needed, for terminals. Because dont want to be turret spam. (The limiting aspect is the available landmass for terminals.)

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

230 (edited by Gremrod 2014-05-21 17:52:13)

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Rage Rex wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

hmm, rage rex...
sounds like an idea...

now, think about the range of defense turrets, the minimum place even the smallest base needs,
and then the current maximum size limit for islands.
how many places can you paint green for terraforming, without possible creation of bottlenecks?

because pictures are sometimes easier to understand:
http://content.perpetuum-online.com/ima … radius.png

beta island, with a 3km circle around each outpost...

/let's out deep breathe of relief.

Finally some movement on this discussion. Perhaps the artists can render some drawings and the mathematicians can hammer out details. I'm only selling the concept.

(Also fore sale: shield walls and mining colixum without towers anymore.

I think they used that image to show how they were going to restrict wall building on beta islands, right?

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Painted zones does sound like a pretty neat solution.  Although it could mean very different things depending how big you make them.  Maybe the sizes/numbers of painted zone could also vary island by island just for variety's sake

Also, would minerals and plants grow (spawn) inside the painted zones.
As much as I loved my little noralgis garden on Bergers it seems kinda silly that it should be safe behind turrets and choke points.

Another idea, maybe NPCs could stay out of the painted zone.  Undocking into an observer spawn was always kinda funny when you have 100s of friendly turrets around you but can't move because a hostile NPC mech is stuck inside your defensive maze.

Things to think about I guess.

+1
-Confucius

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Gremrod wrote:

I think they used that image to show how they were going to restrict wall building on beta islands, right?

i wrote that under the link, yes.

I cannot remember what the minimum size for a gamma base was, with just a terminal, 2 reactor, the 4 essential production buildings and their booster + minimum energy grid towers - as close to together as possible, it was around 500m diameter for the buildings only (t1 all of them).

thats  where you can start drawing your circles - if you want, you can do it yourself. Zoom has posted pictures of all gamma islands, you also know that 1 pixel =10x10m square...

at best, you start with an island that is not mostly flat and filling the aviliable space as good as possible (that X shaped one for example.

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

So Zoom, can you summarize exactly what direction you intend to take Gamma, at this point?

I want to post suggestions but I dont see a point until the Devs give some idea of their thoughts now after 10 pages of feedback and ideas.

Re: Gamma revamp testing

DEV Zoom wrote:

We’re taking our time with this because obviously nobody wants another gamma wipe a year from now, and we are grateful to everyone who aids us with valuable feedback and actual testing. More info on the progress of this is coming soon to the relevant testing forum topic.

Looking forward to your specific changes for testing. Any feedback on the Painted Zone idea, at least for testing, or is that out?

Sparking to other games

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Feedback coming soon, right?

Something?

Any small morsel for the family to cut into pieces and lick, perhaps?

Sparking to other games

Re: Gamma revamp testing

@DEV Zoom

thats a cute little example T1 base you have there on PTS. 
It has everything you need for production in it, and a total of 12 turrets for defense.

Now the question: how much NIC/Materials and time does it need to build that base, and how much effort does take to level it down or cripple it into oblivion?
And where are the mining towers to fuel those exposed reactors, and the walls to prevent npcs from just walking through it or range-fit heavy mechs from sniping the energy nodes?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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237

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Annihilator wrote:

@DEV Zoom

thats a cute little example T1 base you have there on PTS. 
It has everything you need for production in it, and a total of 12 turrets for defense.

Now the question: how much NIC/Materials and time does it need to build that base, and how much effort does take to level it down or cripple it into oblivion?
And where are the mining towers to fuel those exposed reactors, and the walls to prevent npcs from just walking through it or range-fit heavy mechs from sniping the energy nodes?

+1

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

Alright, sorry for the long blackout, let's pick this up again.

For now I have updated the OP with the following:

old wrote:

Buildings go offline in emergency phase, except for the main terminal and facilities.

Changed to: Turrets get an emergency mode too. Turrets, repair nodes, and booster nodes go offline when in emergency mode.

old wrote:

Highway nodes. These simply emit a "highway" effect in a certain radius and you can chain them to build highways on gamma. Uses both bandwidth and energy, like all buildings. Heavily in development, no specifics available yet.

Changed to: Highway nodes. You will be able to place down highway nodes, and 2 of them connected will create a straight higway with a fixed width, and length limited by the connection range of the nodes, so you can create a chain of them. In the interest of simplicity, higway nodes will be energy transmitters too, so they will transmit their own energy that they need to function. Highway nodes will be of course more expensive and have less connection slots than energy transmitters, in order to not take away the role of transmitters themselves.

Newly added:
Every gamma island will have at least 4 external teleports, with the goal to make it harder to "camp" them.

Newly added:
Terraforming will be limited by manually painted no-terraform areas along the coastline of islands, making sure that no teleport can be cut off from the others. (Should we decide to put fixed teleports in the inner parts of an island, then appropriate no-terraform routes will lead to it.)


As it was mentioned above, yes we have built a test base called T1 Test. This is only to test whether a terminal's bandwidth can hold everything we want from an average network, and should not be seen as a base that's well defendable or anything. But we'd like you to see that this is about the amount of buildings that we would like to have for one network, with some playroom left in bandwidth for mining outposts, highways, etc. (It's now 17420 / 22500.) The point is that if you want to have a lot more turrets, or a lot of long highways, you'll probably have to sacrifice some facilities.

I will soon go through the whole topic again and promote more ideas into the OP if they can be done.

Re: Gamma revamp testing

DEV Zoom wrote:

Newly added:
Terraforming will be limited by manually painted no-terraform areas along the coastline of islands, making sure that no teleport can be cut off from the others. (Should we decide to put fixed teleports in the inner parts of an island, then appropriate no-terraform routes will lead to it.)

cool

Re: Gamma revamp testing

nice change on the highway - makes more sense that way.
please use THE SAME system when you revamp the Alpha highways (aka less manual highway painting without visible structure, or structures that you manually have to adjust to the terrain wink )

about the teleports - will they also have multiple connections?

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241

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Can you give us an update on terraforming?

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

Annihilator wrote:

about the teleports - will they also have multiple connections?

That's basically open to discussion, we could have islands that do, and islands that don't.

Ville wrote:

Can you give us an update on terraforming?

We still have at least some hope of doing beacon terraforming right, but chances are that we might end up with module terraforming only, and improve that one with additional features, like height display for tiles (which would help in making the more geometrical terrain structures like ramps, or simply in making sure that an area is completely flat or not).

Re: Gamma revamp testing

DEV Zoom wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

about the teleports - will they also have multiple connections?

That's basically open to discussion, we could have islands that do, and islands that don't.

i hope so - variety is king. stop doing gamma with "three factions" in mind, in a circular pattern around the existing islands.

DEV Zoom wrote:
Ville wrote:

Can you give us an update on terraforming?

We still have at least some hope of doing beacon terraforming right, but chances are that we might end up with module terraforming only, and improve that one with additional features, like height display for tiles (which would help in making the more geometrical terrain structures like ramps, or simply in making sure that an area is completely flat or not).

i wonder why beacon terraforming is harder to balance then live terraforming. is it because of the restriction you have put on plans to have a limited area?

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

This is awesome news! Keep us updateand give us an idea within a few weeks of gamma release. With a rough timeline of expansions it always creates content in game and plenty of meta gaming. All in all this looks like excellent balancing and content smile

I know this is off topic but I wish you hadn't gotten rid of NPC explosion damage allowing loot drop, I heard wonderful things about beacon pits.

245

Re: Gamma revamp testing

DEV Zoom wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

about the teleports - will they also have multiple connections?

That's basically open to discussion, we could have islands that do, and islands that don't.

Ville wrote:

Can you give us an update on terraforming?

We still have at least some hope of doing beacon terraforming right, but chances are that we might end up with module terraforming only, and improve that one with additional features, like height display for tiles (which would help in making the more geometrical terrain structures like ramps, or simply in making sure that an area is completely flat or not).

I'm trying to understand this, so your not touching single tile terraforming mechanics or did they get some funky height limits too?

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246 (edited by Gremrod 2014-06-24 19:51:43)

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Ville wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

about the teleports - will they also have multiple connections?

That's basically open to discussion, we could have islands that do, and islands that don't.

Ville wrote:

Can you give us an update on terraforming?

We still have at least some hope of doing beacon terraforming right, but chances are that we might end up with module terraforming only, and improve that one with additional features, like height display for tiles (which would help in making the more geometrical terrain structures like ramps, or simply in making sure that an area is completely flat or not).

I'm trying to understand this, so your not touching single tile terraforming mechanics or did they get some funky height limits too?

Ville, Zoom is saying they are still working with beacon terraforming. But if that can't get that to work they will revert the changes to be used with the terraforming module. SO it sounds like they have not changed the single title module yet.

That is what I get when I read it.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Gamma revamp testing

[*] Terraformed landscape will slowly degrade to the original terrain with time, but this only affects areas that are outside of a certain radius of buildings (ie. unclaimed land). Suggested radius: 300m[/*]

Apparently this has been out on the test server for a while now, just forgot to update. We're aware that this is really hard to notice or test, but I'm putting it here just so you know.

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Ville: we didn't touch single tile terraforming yet except for the slope limit. I'm saying that if we don't manage to make beacon terraforming useful enough then we'll remove it from the game and improve single tile terraforming instead.

Re: Gamma revamp testing

DEV Zoom wrote:

Ville: we didn't touch single tile terraforming yet except for the slope limit. I'm saying that if we don't manage to make beacon terraforming useful enough then we'll remove it from the game and improve single tile terraforming instead.

Really hoping you guys can get beacon terraforming sorted; it was one if the best things about gamma 1.0. The creation tool was a lot of fun, but it really gave a sense of accomplishment watching your creations come to life. I would definitely like to request a sizable increase in the beacons aoe if you keep it. Throwing gobs of money at the beacon was fine, having to move it every 60 seconds became tedious. Especially when cookies goes afk in the way.

250

Re: Gamma revamp testing

I was still able to make those horrid mud walls with single tile terraformers..  Just making sure everyone knows this so 6 months in we don't get wiped.

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