1 (edited by Xelanthol 2014-04-27 01:09:15)

Topic: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

tldr as quoted by Rage Rex: (slightly edited)

... "Devs, create an option for [...] Purchase of "Special" character slot on one account whereby EP generates independently for two character slots, but cannot be shared."

-------------------------------------Longer explanation below-------------------------------------------------------------

For everyone who was on general chat today contributing to discussion, thank you. For those that were bothered by the walls of text that soon followed I do apologize, but I think overall it was a positive moment.

So let's talk about multiple accounts, and what we can do. I'm going to bring up a few points here.

1. Time based EP growth gives players a sense of progression, meaning veteran players or those who have a lot of time invested will have an actual and skill-based advantage over new players. It's a cool system.

2. EP is spent to make you proficient at doing something, since EP growth is based per account, having multiple characters on one account is near useless if you want to progress in a manner that feels natural to the game.

3. This means to succeed in a timely manner and keep pace with those around you, you will focus on one role. It might be industrial, mining, military, or whatever.

4. I'm on the road to being a dedicated miner. It's a neat job, but let's face it-once you actually find the field, scan the tiles, you just sit there and mine. It's boring, and it takes time. I do it because I like the idea of an economy, I want to be a player in that economy, but mining is boring. Whether this fact can be changed in MMO's, I don't know, that's not my topic for discussion. So you mine, and it's boring, but yeah you can make some decent NIC. So you need money to make money, and with your money you do what-okay you upgrade your mining equipment. EXCELLENT, I'm better at a boring activity that makes me money so I can be better at that boring activity. As someone who is heading into mining, I have a huge fear of getting bored with the game. I like industry, I'm committed to it, but if all my NIC goes into just faster mining, it's going to suck.

5. I COULD start branching into combat, but now I detract from my advancement as a miner, as covered in points 2&3. I'm becoming a valuable mining asset, thats what my corp wants me for, and 90% of the time that's what I like to do. I can be a not-as-good miner and a sort-of-okay combat bot, but it doesn't feel right for a single character.

So, when I bring up these feelings and concerns, what do people say to me over and over again?

Just get another account like everyone else.

Valid answer, sure. I hate it though, I really do. Zoom himself said multiple accounts are NOT intended. Not intended, what does that mean? It means the original design philosophy for the game was not hitched on the premise that players would need multiple accounts to feel fulfilled. However, the big *** elephant in the room is that YES, multiple accounts are currently required to remain competitive and feel fulfilled in comparison with the existing player base.

This is why I don't want another account. I don't want to "suck it up because everyone does it". It's not intended. At the same time, I don't care if people have multiple accounts and control 5 bots at once. On that note, let's talk about two main points as to why people have multiple accounts.

1. To do things effectively as a one man team (I.E I have four accounts, 2 miners, a hauler, and a defender) to run a one man mining operation (or something, I'm not an expert). This is fine, with a small (but growing!) player base I think multiple accounts are necessary to really push things along.

2. To be able to break the monotony of being good at the "one thing you chose".

I don't really like the idea of the first one, that one person with a lot of money could manage 2-3 combat bots providing a significant edge, but whatever, it is what it is. I want to talk about the second one, because to me this is what I am currently struggling with as I play perpetuum.

I want to be able to use my mining income for something that's not mining.

"Buy another account then you jackass!" NO SHUT UP. I don't think the goal should be to make multiple accounts unattractive, but rather single accounts more attractive. "That means the same thing dummy", well kind of, but I'd like to think there is a subtle difference.

So, if multiple accounts are NOT intended, but they are REALLY widespread (like really friggin widespread) then how can we change the game in a way to make it more enjoyable? How can we make sure we do not disrupt the gentle nature of EP balance?"

Here's what I suggest
For the same price as an EP booster (or as an alternative use of the EP booster), you can unlock an "UPGRADED CHARACTER SLOT" that will allow for INDEPENDENT, UNBOOSTED, EP GROWTH ON THAT CHARACTER SLOT.

"You scummy scrub noob you just want the EP of another character without paying for another account fgt"
Yes, yes I do because I believe that the way the game has evolved and developed calls for this sort of thing. Again, I'm working on the premise that having a second account is NOT the way the game is MEANT to be played for the average joe. And I am an average casual player

Look, you already can pay for an ingame advantage with the EP booster. You get EP quicker and can therefore skill up and advance faster as well. "Why not just EP boost and then spread out your extensions if you want to be good at different things assmouth" because it's not as efficient as remaining in one area, and it makes you feel like you are progressing "slowly" anytime you choose between two occupations, which leads to not having fun with the game. And besides, EP boosting for three months is just as expensive as guess what, a new account.

"god ur so whiney u just said it yourself, get a new account and l2p u btch". No, I don't want a new account, see the above discussion. I want to be able to have a second character that could be at the same skill level as the time I have been a player allows for. I don't need to play both at once, I simply want to break the monotony of mining.

The best way I can show you guys what I mean is as follows. Say I play for 5 months. I have 5 months worth of EP. I chose to be a miner, and I want to be a good miner, so I dump my EP into there. That's it, I'm a good miner but that's all I do. Sure, I could choose to go for 3 months of my EP into mining and 2 months of my EP into fighting, but now I'm not good at either, and it feels like for the time I've invested I haven't progressed as either. What I'm proposing is that I can buy a second character slot with it's own EP pool that will progress as normal. So let's start our example over again. I play for 5 months, except at the start of those 5 months I purchase an upgraded character slot.

I now have two characters with five months of EP each. It means I can have two characters that are at 5-month quality. I have a 5 month miner and a 5 rat-killer or whatever.  I will never be better then a 10 month player with only one character that has invested 10 months into a miner or rat-killer.

The whole point of this is to provide incentive to remain on a single account. It will let players who feel the need (like me) to be able to do another occupation without detracting from their progression in another. This also maintains the EP balance of veterans. The two separate pools of EP do not at all stack, so veteran players in their chosen field will always be better.

Thanks for reading and I look forward to any discussion.

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

words are hard....

too many words....

100% disagree with whatever position and or idea is contained within these words.

Stranger Danger / Capital Punishment / Cyberdown
Pillar of the Community
Ruler of Recruit Chat
CIR Ministry of Truth

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

This is a lot of work for the Devs for you to not copy some files.

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

It's not about whether I copy the files or not. It's the fact that the game is not intended to be played on multiple accounts, but that it happens anyway. Why is it happening, and what can we do to make Perpetuum a more enjoyable experience to detract from that happening. You offer no constructive criticism one way or another, which is not helpful to anyone-ever.

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

tl;dr I has 9 accounts, which I use.  True story.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

6 (edited by Lupus Caeli 2014-04-27 00:35:46)

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

only problem with your post is point 4 is wrong is soooo many ways.

Corp mining ops are a party where you hang out with friends and have fun.

Boosting skills and mining/indy abilities serve your corp better and support all corp activities from combat to building their own Gamma kingdom.

The basic premise here is that to be a single billy no mates player your single account is no fun ....
BUT MMO's are about people and working together for the better of the group .... if you don't see that then I suggest a single client game is more suited to you.

7 (edited by Xelanthol 2014-04-27 00:31:18)

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

I was thinking about whether I bring the social aspect in or not. Mining-in and of itself, is boring. Hanging out with everyone on teamspeak and shooting the *** while drinking some beer is not boring, that is fun. I know MMO's are meant to be social, I'm just speaking mechanically about character development and growth in terms of gameplay. Thank you for that point though Lupus, you are right. I'm glad that is the only issue with the post!

8 (edited by Rage Rex 2014-04-27 00:57:21)

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

Ummmm, is your TLDR this?

... "Devs, create an option for One-Time Purchase of "Special" character slot on one account whereby EP generates independently for two character slots, but cannot be shared."

So how much do you want to pay for it?

Does this now mean you cannot spread EP to that 3rd character slot left?

9 (edited by Xelanthol 2014-04-27 01:06:59)

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

Exactly that, doesn't necessarily have to be one-time.

It would require a bit of reworking. Perhaps that character slot could not pool EP with another.

Other then that that is exactly what I mean.

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

Xelanthol wrote:

Exactly that, doesn't necessarily have to be one-time.

It would require a bit of reworking. Perhaps that character slot could not pool EP with another.

Other then that that is exactly what I mean.

Or ... you could just purchase another account tongue

11 (edited by Xelanthol 2014-04-27 01:13:45)

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

12 (edited by Celebro 2014-04-27 01:28:05)

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

Having separate accounts gives you the advantage of each one complimenting each other, but if you prefer to have like a dual character training on same account by paying something extra I don't see why not, more money to the devs.

I like to note that miners with just some EP to spare can pvp in a logistics/support role too. At the end of the day, you will get your perfect mining though, it will just take a little longer.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

Whats the point of having it on 1 account?

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

Having two pools of ep would cost a player $28.XX  and $28.XX  for someone as they would have to buy 2 accounts. If the devs introduced a feature where 2 pools could be on the same acct then it should be that the ep from both pools could not be spent on the same character and the cost for the 2nd pool should be the same or  close to the same cost as above. $10 bucks is just a cheap attempt to circumvent the time is EP feature this game has and shouldn't be allowed.

big_smile

15 (edited by Gremrod 2014-04-27 04:55:23)

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

Instead of asking the devs to change or add a feature that would be a lot of rework for them. Just buy a second account which in turn helps them support the game developer/hardware etc. and also accomplishes your goal of separated EP.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

16 (edited by Xelanthol 2014-04-27 05:17:17)

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

If the conclusion is "just have two accounts" then I suppose that is the conclusion, I was hoping to make a more enjoyable experience for people wishing to play on a single account such as myself. @ Aye Pod, cheap? The "time is ep" feature is already circumvented via multiple accounts, the fact that I want to spend 10$ instead of 30$ and have it integrated into the main client is what I think a fair arguement. I just want a way to play in a way that is recognized by the developers as the way it is meant to be played. If the game requires multiple accounts to enjoy to its fullest extent in respect to gameplay mechanics (and NOT the amount of success) then I think something is wrong, if everyone feels multiple account ownership is inherent to the game then all I want is for the devs to come out and say it.

@Syndic, as I explained, the point of having it on one account is so that when someone commits to an occupation, they can at least have another toon at a similar level of skill. When I'm finishing mining I can hop onto my pvp toon, rather then gimping my mining toon by spreading EP points between the extensions required for both.

Not ONCE have I heard someone say "Oh yeah you can spec into mining and do a bit of combat." Every long-term player says no, don't do that, you will gimp your toon, and be ineffective. Just commit to one occupation and stick to it, and buy another account. Time-based EP growth is already circumvented in this exact fashion already. All I'm suggesting it is merging it to a single account for people who don't want to run multiple bots at once, but would like to have some versatility in their playstyle without waiting 5 years for the EP to be good at two things instead of one.

I like Perpetuum (and will happily continue to play), I want to support the devs, and I'm not trying to be aggressive with my philosophies. I just had the notion that running multiple accounts was an option for more hardcore gamers, but in my experience thus far it is (or is encouraged) to be the common course of action.

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

As long people want this and want to pay for it and it won't kill development of the game for the next 5 months +1. More options to the players, more money to the devs.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

Xelanthol wrote:

If the conclusion is "just have two accounts" then I suppose that is the conclusion, I was hoping to make a more enjoyable experience for people wishing to play on a single account such as myself. @ Aye Pod, cheap? The "time is ep" feature is already circumvented via multiple accounts, the fact that I want to spend 10$ instead of 30$ and have it integrated into the main client is what I think a fair arguement. I just want a way to play in a way that is recognized by the developers as the way it is meant to be played. If the game requires multiple accounts to enjoy to its fullest extent in respect to gameplay mechanics (and NOT the amount of success) then I think something is wrong, if everyone feels multiple account ownership is inherent to the game then all I want is for the devs to come out and say it.

@Syndic, as I explained, the point of having it on one account is so that when someone commits to an occupation, they can at least have another toon at a similar level of skill. When I'm finishing mining I can hop onto my pvp toon, rather then gimping my mining toon by spreading EP points between the extensions required for both.

Not ONCE have I heard someone say "Oh yeah you can spec into mining and do a bit of combat." Every long-term player says no, don't do that, you will gimp your toon, and be ineffective. Just commit to one occupation and stick to it, and buy another account. Time-based EP growth is already circumvented in this exact fashion already. All I'm suggesting it is merging it to a single account for people who don't want to run multiple bots at once, but would like to have some versatility in their playstyle without waiting 5 years for the EP to be good at two things instead of one.

I like Perpetuum (and will happily continue to play), I want to support the devs, and I'm not trying to be aggressive with my philosophies. I just had the notion that running multiple accounts was an option for more hardcore gamers, but in my experience thus far it is (or is encouraged) to be the common course of action.

So what you're saying is you want to have 2 toons cheaper and you're willing to trade having to re-log?

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

19 (edited by Xelanthol 2014-04-27 15:54:17)

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

Yeah, at the end of the day that's it. I don't want to play on two accounts, but everyone knows you are stuck doing one thing if you really want to commit. I want the versatility of having that second EP pool, but I don't care about being able to use that account at the same time.

So yes, two toons, the second cheaper, but I can't use it at the same time. Let's go with that.

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

Xelanthol wrote:

So yes, two toons, the second cheaper, but I can't use it at the same time. Let's go with that.


Should not be cheaper, the need to write all new code, the need to test it, to implement it, and then to keep it bug free. I think 60 dollars would be more fair.

[16:03:43] <Mara Gossep> syndic.....and get your *** spy out of our corp

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

60$ seems a very fair price for such a niche feature.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

I was simply speaking as someone who would like to experience perpetuum at the expected pace without needing to own a second account. If I'm alone on this, which it feels like, then I concede. Maybe one day I'll buy another account or I'll get bored playing strictly a miner and stop, who knows.

If adding this is a massive undertaking requiring resources away from other parts of the game then I encourage the devs to continue on with what they are doing.

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

Xelanthol wrote:

I was simply speaking as someone who would like to experience perpetuum at the expected pace without needing to own a second account. If I'm alone on this, which it feels like, then I concede. Maybe one day I'll buy another account or I'll get bored playing strictly a miner and stop, who knows.

If adding this is a massive undertaking requiring resources away from other parts of the game then I encourage the devs to continue on with what they are doing.

your'e not alone with that thinking,
but there are to many who would be butthurt if suddenly their 4 year old spy/troll alt agents on same account would have a seperated EP pool which they didn't had over those 4 years.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

This would make a lot more sense if Perp was still a sub based game, but as it is you can already buy a second character slot for a one off fee, you apparently don't like the way of doing it, but it will work just as well for what you want to do.

Re: Multiple Accounts - Let's discuss!

@Annihilator, I'm having trouble getting my idea across (which is my fault)... You don't have to make them all have their own EP pool. It would be an optional purchase that would upgrade/create an additional character slot to having their own EP pool.

I play on my one account. I have played for two months and have two characters with a shared EP pool. I want to have another toon to do something else with. I spend 10 dollars and create an additional character tied to my account that has it's own EP and EP growth (just like a new account). This "upgraded character" will not share EP with any other characters. So now I would have the 2 characters sharing one pool, with another character that grows independently. Spy/alt agents tied to the original remain the same, nothing changes there.

@Dazamin, I understand with the "one time purchase" you can have another account, but again my whole argument is that multiple accounts shouldn't (and from what I have heard are not supposed to be) essential for a diverse experience. But they are, we all know that, it's fact. I shouldn't have to buy another account, an account is meant to be main hub for a player. Could I just suck it up and fork another 30 bucks for an account? I absolutely could, but I think this is a detriment to perpetuum. What I'm promoting might take a bit of work, but it's not like it is for nothing, I think a lot of people would purchase this. It doesn't break time based EP anymore then multiple accounts do, veteran players with long-lived accounts will never be surpassed by anyone purchasing these things. So I have 5 different characters, I can only play one at a time, and the EP for each character would never be greater then how long the account has been around.  This isn't useless to me, I can now diversify and try out different things without breaking game balance anymore then mult accounts already do.