26 Reply by Tux

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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

SO a few questions surrounding the gamma wipe

* If you want to make gammas more "roam able" should you not make them closer to alpha so a guy wanting to roam them does not have to have a sequer full of Teleports in order to travel to the gammas. Redoing the map to make Gammas more "equal" as far as distance from alpha is something you should really consider if the goal of this wipe is truly to make gamma more accessible for indy & pvp. The current map will make it so only about 4 to 6  of the gammas are suitable for development ... with your new rules

If you can not secure gammas only the gammas in close proximity to alpha will be profitable to develop.

why ? simply because the others are logistically too risky with not enough reward.

* One thing to consider when designing the new Beacon TF rules is that you could use a similar system that you do with walls on beta islands.

Manuals ~ can be use anywhere just like now.
New TF Beacon can only be deployed with in 5KM (or less) of a Gamma outpost and not within 2.5KM of a teleport.

I know that attackers should be able to use TF beacons in a gamma assault but i also think that in order to assault a gamma you need to a certain degree of commitment, which should be the deployment of an attacking terminal.

* Questions:

1. have you been able to find the missing archives of market activity for T F charges going all the way back to gamma launch ?   

2. Can Corp's tell you the Devs where we would like our assets placed at back on alpha?

3. Are we going to get the TF charges back knowing they will be reimplemented again in the future or are we going to get NIC back for the TF charges and beacons?

4. Is there a list somewhere of what we will be reimbursed for? i.e. manual TF charges Beacon modules & charges etc. ?

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

27 Reply by Tux

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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

Well i guess that is one of the irony's of the change .... you cant use TF defensively any more ... but you cant use it offensively either to "hide" away form the turrets. lol well well see what happens....

This just may make gammas harder to breach in the end .. depending on the design.

Delcimus wrote:

Zoom, thank you for the reply to my questions

I would like to point out that if terraforming was limited to 100 m vertical, it would still be used defensively (ie for LOS and preventing NPCs randomly walking into your base and vapourizing that hauling scarab that just undocked) while at the same time being far easier to breech when attacked. The 800 m walls were built because they offered the LOS superiority and required several hours to attempt to breech. A 100 m wall will look nice but will practically offer no more than a 15 minute delay for an attacking force. Hardly a strong defense.

And from an attackers point of view, allowing vertical cover walls is quite important for sieging bases ... Diminishining this would hinder attacking forces greatly.

I remember how terrible the wall structures were on Kent and how awful they look now on Beta, especially diagonally on slopes. I hope this isn't what you want us to use de facto on Gamma now.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

28 Reply by BeastmodeGuNs (edited by BeastmodeGuNs 2014-02-04 02:03:24)

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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

Jita wrote:

2) Move epi back to Gamma

honestly i have to go -1 with this. as it stands, that and partly SAP loot are the only good reasons for owning a beta as it stands especially after the assignments revamp/nerf and the research revamp, if epriton was to be moved back to gamma and become no longer beta exclusive once more, then well... beta would be even more worthless worthless and there would be even more reason NOT to own a beta outpost.

Im sure there will be some other way to balance out gamma other then make beta 100% worthless. But re-adding epriton to gamma clearly is not the way.

like.... doing something that will make colixium slightly more while to where it will make gamma better but not to where everyone wants to spend their life on gamma. I'm sure one of us will come up with the golden idea lol, but until then....

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29 Reply by Ronon (edited by Ronon 2014-02-04 02:50:56)

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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

BeastmodeGuNs wrote:
Jita wrote:

2) Move epi back to Gamma

honestly i have to go -1 with this. as it stands, that and partly SAP loot are the only good reasons for owning a beta as it stands especially after the assignments revamp/nerf and the research revamp, if epriton was to be moved back to gamma and become no longer beta exclusive once more, then well... beta would be even more worthless worthless and there would be even more reason NOT to own a beta outpost.

Im sure there will be some other way to balance out gamma other then make beta 100% worthless. But re-adding epriton to gamma clearly is not the way.

like.... doing something that will make colixium slightly more while to where it will make gamma better but not to where everyone wants to spend their life on gamma. I'm sure one of us will come up with the golden idea lol, but until then....

Strange that I agree with Beast on this. The entire argument about moving Epriton back to Beta was to increase PvP and give Betas value outside of SAP loot. Moving it back to Gamma now seems counter-productive to this. Whatever happened to the idea of having higher tier modules like T5 and T6? Make Collixum based commodities an essential part to build those and now you have a reason to want to mine on Gamma. Of course we need those pesky New Tech kernels so we can research those modules (not to mention the implementation of those new modules in the game), but I am sure that is just a patch or five away... roll

TL/DR: -1 to moving Epriton back to Gamma.

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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

-1 to Epi on Gamma.

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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

+1 to Epi on Gamma.

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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

+2 to Epi on Gamma

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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

What I would like to see new on gamma ...

1. Would like to see non destruction concrete-layer from AoE, which also changed the texture when applied, visual road and without plants. To remove the layer need a special resource.

2. Using two colors in terminals, external painting of the building, and inside for changing backgrounds. Possibility to expose them separately.

It really has no chang of mechanics, but this is nice buns that allow more to do for the soul, so to speak, set up your home.

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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

Not to rain on a parade, but putting a limit on slopes will effectively just increase the footprint of a base (though it'll look better). I'm with Kvazio here, point your efforts towards personalization and vanity; if you've seen one base you've seen them all.

Also, paint for bots. Pink paint.

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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

Leave Epi on Beta for now. This game needs time to adjust to new island mechanics. Until bases start popping up and we see if roaming PvP is practical, then perhaps. Revisit next year...

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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

Oh.. reset the TP's as well?

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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

If epi is only on beta why would you ever mine on gamma?

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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

Jita wrote:

If epi is only on beta why would you ever mine on gamma?

Terminals are fixed on beta, meaning you will more than likely have to travel out of the way for minerals vs gamma, meaning its not as safe.

You wont want to haul everything to Gamma, you just increase the risk of gank. If Gamma facilities are worth the risk to install, you will need all minerals there.

Epi isn't the only mineral in game.

Leave it on beta.

39 Reply by Obi Wan Kenobi (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2014-02-04 13:53:29)

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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

Kvazio wrote:

What I would like to see new on gamma ...

1. Would like to see non destruction concrete-layer from AoE, which also changed the texture when applied, visual road and without plants. To remove the layer need a special resource.

Actually this brings up a good issue concrete layer degrades WAY to fast DEVs it needs to be in the order of 2months MIN b4 it fades away.


AND ALSO .. player built Highways tongue

+1 to keeping Epi Beta only.

@ Zoom: have you DEVs thought about how your going to work the Outpost caps for Gamma islands yet? keeping it the same or changing it?

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The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue
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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

Hi Zoom.
Will you reimburse all CHAOS assets in Landers Bridge what we have been lost because STC used an exploit?
And for some various other reasons.
See tickets pls.
Honestly, it will be not fair enough if you wont reimburse assets what was made by CHAOS huge efforts in landers.
Thanks.

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41 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2014-02-04 14:10:32)

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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

1. Let's say we have a very steep natural cliff somewhere. Obviously we can't make it steeper but what about the other way around of making it passable?

2. Will you plan to set any minimum distance between terminals or change the 2km from teleports rule?

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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

Alexadar wrote:

Hi Zoom.
Will you reimburse all CHAOS assets in Landers Bridge what we have been lost because STC used an exploit?
And for some various other reasons.
See tickets pls.
Honestly, it will be not fair enough if you wont reimburse assets what was made by CHAOS huge efforts in landers.
Thanks.


Unlikely. What exploit?

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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

Those who don't like Epri on gamma you can still stay mining on Beta, if you don't like players mining on gamma go do something about it and go shoot them.

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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

Celebro wrote:

Those who don't like Epri on gamma you can still stay mining on Beta, if you don't like players mining on gamma go do something about it and go shoot them.

It appears the primary argument for Epri beta only is to give beta value.
Nothing to do with not liking mining on gamma.

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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

Epi needs to stay beta only for the time being. If it is moved to gamma then its supply is nearly limitless again, reducing the value of epi. This also reduces the cost and increases the availibilty of t4 gear. Which probly shouldn't be so easy to get in the first place. Lets give some value to Mk2 bots and t4 gear again by leaving epi on beta for the time being.

For the placing terminals on mineral fields on gamma and mining in safety thing.. How about making it so you do not get the terminal foundation back when you deconstruct a terminal? You still get all the stuff inside and mats or blocks or whatever, but you lose the foundation. This would at the very least make it more expensive to do. You would have to weigh the cost of losing a few rivelers vs the cost of the terminal.

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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

Alexadar wrote:

Hi Zoom.
Will you reimburse all CHAOS assets in Landers Bridge what we have been lost because STC used an exploit?
And for some various other reasons.
See tickets pls.
Honestly, it will be not fair enough if you wont reimburse assets what was made by CHAOS huge efforts in landers.
Thanks.


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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

Alexadar wrote:

Hi Zoom.
Will you reimburse all CHAOS assets in Landers Bridge what we have been lost because STC used an exploit?
And for some various other reasons.
See tickets pls.
Honestly, it will be not fair enough if you wont reimburse assets what was made by CHAOS huge efforts in landers.
Thanks.

Yea, in the future if you are going to accuse myself or my corp of using an exploit to kick over your sandcastle in a public forum. At least mention what exploit you are accusing us of using...

And honestly, if you had spent half as much effort defending it as you did building it. You would still have it. If it makes you feel better though, it was a HUGE effort to deconstruct all your stuff and haul it to herschfield... 100's of scarab loads...

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

And on gamma terraforming, I would rather shoot structures and bots instead of terraforming beacons and the ground. If you want a wall around your gamma base, then build your base on a cliff.

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

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49 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2014-02-10 16:35:26)

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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

Delcimus wrote:
Celebro wrote:

Those who don't like Epri on gamma you can still stay mining on Beta, if you don't like players mining on gamma go do something about it and go shoot them.

It appears the primary argument for Epri beta only is to give beta value.
Nothing to do with not liking mining on gamma.

So Beta is broken, and the only way to fix that is breaking gamma too? Gammas are going to be free roaming again (hopefully) and the only reason for removing Epri was it was too safe to mine behind walled off TPs.

There were many changes that made Beta worthless:

Beacon pits on gamma
Hi tech Kernals on alpha spawns
Unrewarding mission system
Spark teleport
Signal detection modules

I don't know where Epri comes into play here?

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Re: Incoming gamma changes and gamma-only wipe

Gammas will NEVER be free flowing with the proposed changes.

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