Topic: Devils Advocate

So while winning the war against Liquizit and doing my various other Hello Kitty activities I was pondering the meaning to my robot life here in Perp. I jumped into gen chat to get the spiritual guidance I was seeking and had a thought. What the eff am I going to do if Steam DOESNT work out?

I think steam is going to bring an influx of a few hundred new players but what happens if they dont stay and play in this sandbox? We all know the biggest shortfall of this game is lack of content but yet we are getting the devs to focus their limited resources on nerfing follow bots and RSA's and other *** that isnt going to keep newer players in the game.

So... What are you going to do if you log into the game 3 months after steam and see gen chat still <75?

2 (edited by Inda 2014-01-25 16:55:09)

Re: Devils Advocate

This will happen, no doubt but maybe a bit longer timeframe. I will be stay after all.

I will be here and try to catch as many people as I can so I will try to do my best to hook new palyers to Perpetuum.
I still beleive Perpetuum should be more popular with still mechanichs even!

(I am translating Zortarg Guide to Hungary hope to new Hungarian players also.)

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: Devils Advocate

Least we won't be able to follow locked targets.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Devils Advocate

The assignment system is great hope for player retention. Devs just need to make sure it's well balanced and worth doing more than just sitting on Alpha2 spawn.

Re: Devils Advocate

Burial wrote:

The assignment system is great hope for player retention. Devs just need to make sure it's well balanced and worth doing more than just sitting on Alpha2 spawn.

Assignment system? You mean the new assignment selection process.

There are NO NEW ASSIGNMENTS for Steam, thus NO NEW CONTENT.

My memory is that players always complained that assignments were boring, and that was when they could at least select ones they preferred or that paid better. Now, they have the same *** assignments and can no longer choose what they want because of mission exploiters.

Am I wrong about the content ...I sure hope so. Apparently someon was oh so happy to correct me about the fact that Stage Two of missions comes AFTER Steam and not before. Terrible, terrible strategy.

I hope I'm wrong about content too.

Re: Devils Advocate

Rage Rex wrote:
Burial wrote:

The assignment system is great hope for player retention. Devs just need to make sure it's well balanced and worth doing more than just sitting on Alpha2 spawn.

Assignment system? You mean the new assignment selection process.

There are NO NEW ASSIGNMENTS for Steam, thus NO NEW CONTENT.

My memory is that players always complained that assignments were boring, and that was when they could at least select ones they preferred or that paid better. Now, they have the same *** assignments and can no longer choose what they want because of mission exploiters.

Am I wrong about the content ...I sure hope so. Apparently someon was oh so happy to correct me about the fact that Stage Two of missions comes AFTER Steam and not before. Terrible, terrible strategy.

I hope I'm wrong about content too.

+1 The beginner Island was the wrong choice to do before, they should have finished the whole mission system first.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Devils Advocate

Rage Rex wrote:
Burial wrote:

The assignment system is great hope for player retention. Devs just need to make sure it's well balanced and worth doing more than just sitting on Alpha2 spawn.

Assignment system? You mean the new assignment selection process.

There are NO NEW ASSIGNMENTS for Steam, thus NO NEW CONTENT.

My memory is that players always complained that assignments were boring, and that was when they could at least select ones they preferred or that paid better. Now, they have the same *** assignments and can no longer choose what they want because of mission exploiters.

Am I wrong about the content ...I sure hope so. Apparently someon was oh so happy to correct me about the fact that Stage Two of missions comes AFTER Steam and not before. Terrible, terrible strategy.

I hope I'm wrong about content too.

Missions are boring because no rewards, if Devs deploy a syndicate supplies with shinny bots, modules , etc like EVE Online ( LP store) , maybe more people will make them.

Re: Devils Advocate

The selection is so far nice IMO. The multiplier can get people addicted. New random missions and some nice rewards are the key here and hopefully they get it done in time.

9 (edited by Rage Rex 2014-01-25 22:02:27)

Re: Devils Advocate

Burial wrote:

The selection is so far nice IMO. The multiplier can get people addicted. New random missions and some nice rewards are the key here and hopefully they get it done in time.

I think the new systems look promising. I'm not complaining about it. I'm just saying that mission content is key in retention. But I hope you're right about retention, really.

Re: Devils Advocate

Heliaso wrote:
Rage Rex wrote:
Burial wrote:

The assignment system is great hope for player retention. Devs just need to make sure it's well balanced and worth doing more than just sitting on Alpha2 spawn.

Assignment system? You mean the new assignment selection process.

There are NO NEW ASSIGNMENTS for Steam, thus NO NEW CONTENT.

My memory is that players always complained that assignments were boring, and that was when they could at least select ones they preferred or that paid better. Now, they have the same *** assignments and can no longer choose what they want because of mission exploiters.

Am I wrong about the content ...I sure hope so. Apparently someon was oh so happy to correct me about the fact that Stage Two of missions comes AFTER Steam and not before. Terrible, terrible strategy.

I hope I'm wrong about content too.

Missions are boring because no rewards, if Devs deploy a syndicate supplies with shinny bots, modules , etc like EVE Online ( LP store) , maybe more people will make them.

+1

Faction Mechs with added bonus only available from Tokens.  Yum.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

11 (edited by Burial 2014-01-25 22:06:42)

Re: Devils Advocate

Rage Rex wrote:
Burial wrote:

The selection is so far nice IMO. The multiplier can get people addicted. New random missions and some nice rewards are the key here and hopefully they get it done in time.

I think the new systems look promising. I'm not complaining about it. I'm just saying that mission content is key in retention. But I hope you're right about retention, really.

I agree with you about that too. I would personally finish the assignments before Steam too, it's a nice little grind people can do.

Re: Devils Advocate

The problem with missions is without something shiny at the end its just a grind. The shiny at the end of our missions is just new sparks. The faction level doesn't mean anything and there is nothing good to spend your tokens on other than beacons.  The devs would be smart to add new things to the existing content we already have. That way they dont have to rush out something new just to keep people interested.

Re: Devils Advocate

I always felt cheated when I spent $40 - $50 for a console game that I was able to play through in 6 hours. I have a feeling alot of the new players are going to get the same feeling about this game real quick.

Re: Devils Advocate

T2+ and T4+ gear to Syndicate Store would solve the shininess issue. T4+ could be for sale there at 500-1500 tokens each and T2+ perhaps 50-150. Since those items are non-manufacturable they wouldn't be breaking industrialists backs either.

Re: Devils Advocate

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … -supplies/

=> i already submited an example, easy to implement.

16 (edited by Clearia 2014-01-25 23:04:55)

Re: Devils Advocate

i agree - eve's mission system has much more reward

Re: Devils Advocate

Well then you need to wipe all tokens from the game first... cause i got a decent stack from the broken mission system and that would just be ridiculous to be able to buy all that shiny stuff with those.

Re: Devils Advocate

Aye Pod wrote:

What the eff am I going to do if Steam DOESNT work out?

We can try getting the devs to put the game on Kickstarter or Desura, that should be another ~2 years of hope and hype about 100000s of players just waiting to hear about awesome game.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: Devils Advocate

No to T+ at the faction store, keep that *** rare and gives a great reason to ninja saps. There is enough in game at the moment.

Yes to buying Faction Bots ... Would I buy a Vanguard Mesmer for 45000 tokens, hell yeah!
Would I grind 2 months to do it, hell yeah!
Would  I do it again ... umm duh, hell yeah!

20 (edited by Rage Rex 2014-01-26 19:55:46)

Re: Devils Advocate

Cassius wrote:

No to T+ at the faction store, keep that *** rare and gives a great reason to ninja saps. There is enough in game at the moment.

Yes to buying Faction Bots ... Would I buy a Vanguard Mesmer for 45000 tokens, hell yeah!
Would I grind 2 months to do it, hell yeah!
Would  I do it again ... umm duh, hell yeah!

45000 tokens? If thats the baseline for affordable then say goodbye to any chance of anyone playing this game but a very very few mission exploiters with nothing better to do. That you would even spit out such a number shows how far out of touch you are with normal game-play.

Absent some wild scheme or exploit that would take about 2 months of full-time-job game play with one character.

What can you earn with tokens per hour with one account without exploiting or running 20 scarabs to move transport goods?

I'm really curious

Re: Devils Advocate

Rage Rex wrote:
Cassius wrote:

No to T+ at the faction store, keep that *** rare and gives a great reason to ninja saps. There is enough in game at the moment.

Yes to buying Faction Bots ... Would I buy a Vanguard Mesmer for 45000 tokens, hell yeah!
Would I grind 2 months to do it, hell yeah!
Would  I do it again ... umm duh, hell yeah!

45000 tokens? If thats the baseline for affordable then say goodbye to any chance of anyone playing this game but a very very few mission exploiters with nothing better to do. That you would even spit out such a number shows how far out of touch you are with normal game-play.

Absent some wild scheme or exploit that would take about 2 months of full-time-job game play with one character.

What can you earn with tokens per hour with one account without exploiting or running 20 scarabs to move transport goods?

I'm really curious

Jesus Christ RAGE Rex try and calm the *** down. It's simply an example to give an incentive to actually encourage people to mission more. If theres a big shiny at the end of grinding more people will mission, simple.... This is concept talking, the numbers are not hard and fact. Currently are there even  ... 10 .. faction robots in game? I dont think so. T4+, yes and the means to get it is already established, and seems balanced for a rare item.

So making a reward at the faction shoppe that is extremely difficult to obtain, but also extremely shiny, people will try for it. I am agreeing with Ville here.

With the new randomized assignment dispenser I dont have any idea what can be earned tokens/hour. Even with the old system, and being able to earn 800 tokens a hour, i hate doing missions, primarily ran them for the Sparks, and for structure kernels, before the research revamp.

22 (edited by Jita 2014-01-27 00:08:57)

Re: Devils Advocate

Cassius wrote:

Jesus Christ RAGE If theres a big shiny at the end of grinding more people will mission


Actually this is not true. Static rewards dont encourage gameplay, its a series of different types of reward linked through linear, time based and randomized reward. Essentially you build a skinner box.

First you need reinforcers:

Reinforcement is any event that strengthens or increases the behavior it follows. There are two kinds of reinforcers:

Positive reinforcers are favorable events or outcomes that are presented after the behavior. In situations that reflect positive reinforcement, a response or behavior is strengthened by the addition of something, such as praise or a direct reward.

Negative reinforcers involve the removal of an unfavorable events or outcomes after the display of a behavior. In these situations, a response is strengthened by the removal of something considered unpleasant.


You would then make your reinforcers varied to continue to drive behavior:

Once a behavior has been acquired, it is often a good idea to switch to a partial reinforcement schedule. The four main types of partial reinforcement are:

Fixed-ratio schedules: Reinforcing a behavior after a specific number of responses have occurred.

Fixed-interval schedules: Reinforcing a behavior after a specific period of time has elapsed.

Variable-ratio schedules: Reinforcing the behavior after an unpredictable number of responses.

Variable-interval schedules: Reinforcing the behavior after an unpredictable period of time has elapsed.

An example might be Eve - you can get ordinary rewards but every X number of missions you get a storyline mission. As well as that you get faction stuff and ships both as a cumulative reward and as a random drop. In addition to that you get officer stuff that is very very rare alongside very rare drops. What drives you isn't so much the goal but just like in gambling the chance of a random big win.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Devils Advocate

Jita wrote:

words...

Jita used big words & logic ..... now im confused hmm

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Devils Advocate

Burial wrote:

T2+ and T4+ gear to Syndicate Store would solve the shininess issue. T4+ could be for sale there at 500-1500 tokens each and T2+ perhaps 50-150. Since those items are non-manufacturable they wouldn't be breaking industrialists backs either.

I like this idea.

25 (edited by Merkle 2014-01-27 01:15:00)

Re: Devils Advocate

Smokeyii wrote:
Burial wrote:

T2+ and T4+ gear to Syndicate Store would solve the shininess issue. T4+ could be for sale there at 500-1500 tokens each and T2+ perhaps 50-150. Since those items are non-manufacturable they wouldn't be breaking industrialists backs either.

I like this idea.


T2+ Sure T4+ No

Unless, you add in something else that is NAMED so that we have a ultra rare item that can only be gotten one way.  Beacons.

The reasoning is that if you do this we will start running quite a bit of nothing but t4+ bots.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13