Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Burial wrote:

Arga, the movement of troops is not nearly as hard as you seem to make it. Aslong as there are blood sparks in the game, you can just get to closest Alpha 2 and use interzones.

interzone teleports, the spark teleport of tomorrow! \o/
they will be the most used thing for moving troops through beta if spark teleports are removed

Reading this signature fills you with determination.

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Burial wrote:

Arga, the movement of troops is not nearly as hard as you seem to make it. Aslong as there are blood sparks in the game, you can just get to closest Alpha 2 and use interzones.

Otherwise very good points, Arga, just it doesn't have nearly the effect you think it would have.

In order to make it work:
- Buff Std Beacons so bots can carry comfortable amount of them.
- Nerf Blood Spark by only making it possible to set home station to the current terminal you are in.
- Remove Spark Teleports entirely.

We would be back to living on islands that are close by, scouting for enemy forces and so on. Nothing mysterious is happening with troops which is pretty awesome imo.

I'm saying that SpT and TP are not equivalent, not that TP is broken.
The existance of TP is not an arguement for SpT.

SpT doesn't even need to be removed entirely, it just needs a timer so FC's are required to use it STRATEGICALLY instead of TACTICALLY.

103 (edited by Martha Stuart 2013-11-14 19:44:12)

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Fall From Grace wrote:
Martha Stuart wrote:

If you follow these two questions through to conclusion, the answer comes out as this.  The only reason SpT is unfair is because you guys are getting your *** kicked.  If you were the dominant side, SpT would be perfectly fine.  This is evidenced by, when 62nd/12 had there big buddy Syndic and his massive fleet, and were cleaning the floor with us on Dom, not a word was spoken about SpT being broken or OP.

this is the policy of double faces, how delightful!

Not really, this is like the republicans using redistricting to assure their re-election.  When they lose, they complain that the democrats are redistricting and that's cheating.  Similar to how Beast *** about blobs, but then brings 9 people to kill merkle (well done by the way)  It's not "double faces" (The proper term is "Two faced" fyi)  it's called hypocrisy.  Everything is fine and good while you are on top, but the second someone de-thrones you, all of a sudden everything is unfair, and OP, and you stand no chance of being able to do anything.  Hence why I am pointing out your hypocritical arguments.

I don't disagree, that sparks should be changed slightly, but complete remove is absurd.  conveniently, no one seems to remember the days before SpT, when it took hours to get across the world.  The number one complaint of new players was how long it took to get anywhere, And this was pre-gamma.  Concessions must be made if you are going to change SpT.  Beacons are far to big, the permanent tele system is atrociously bad, there is no way to remotely purchase or sell items, haulers are WAY to small, commodities are WAY to big, etc etc.  All of these things need to be addressed before you make any changes to the SpT system.  I don't see the problem with a corp who owns a Beta OP being able to spark to it.  This is one of the benefits that should come with beta ownership.  The defender should always have an advantage.

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Burial is the only guy on your side who isnt pants on head ***.

Remove sparks, detectors and make inter zones 15 mil.

Let's make this game vast again not six clicks in 10 minutes and I've scouted the game.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

105 (edited by Burial 2013-11-14 20:26:28)

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Hey.. I don't have anything against detectors or interzones. But I can see the potential with removed sparks if movement otherwise gets a buff.

Back in the day with old teleport network and island placement you used to have teleport chains throughout like 3-4 islands. I'm not after rejuvinating that, but just generally more connections between Alphas and less time waiting for beacons/walking is beneficial.

106

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Then just tell me, without SpT and Epri Beta-only, what will be the point to have a Gamma base at all? How do you gonna plan to defend it if you should live on Beta to get some Epri?

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

107

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

I miss you Jita.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

108

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Line wrote:

Then just tell me, without SpT and Epri Beta-only, what will be the point to have a Gamma base at all? How do you gonna plan to defend it if you should live on Beta to get some Epri?

Production bonuses and decoder and calibration labs.  Pants on the head spotted!

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Big part of the Gamma appeal already died with Epriton. Right now, I'm not even sure if it's worth to spend billions to close off the teleports just so you could mine ABC minerals in peace.

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Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Burial wrote:

Big part of the Gamma appeal already died with Epriton. Right now, I'm not even sure if it's worth to spend billions to close off the teleports just so you could mine ABC minerals in peace.

Xactly. Factory etc bonuses are just slightly higher than on Alphas/Betas, so what's the point of investing tons of NIC and manhours into something that you will be unable to defend successfully enough getting insignificant bonuses instead?

Remove Gammas together with SpT. Let's just get back to old good days, without lagging Gammas.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

If we get reimbused. big_smile

112

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Gamma would be fine even with epriton still on it if Merkles change was implemented. That would make it another place to roam and defend.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

113 (edited by Cassius 2013-11-15 03:30:56)

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

This topic, again?

I have only bothered to read this quickly.

You guys all said we only took the Beta because you stopped playing.
We only killed Gamma bases because the owners weren't active.

You'd be right.
It wasn't because of SpT, so stop whining about it.

Start playing again, in the same numbers as before and you will once again own Betas like before.
It's that *** simple.

There is nothing wrong with SpT that needs anything longer than a nominal 3-5 minute cooldown.

Edit: Had a nice talk with Jita in Gen Chat ... I see there is more to this then what I saw at a glance, may comment more later.

114

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

I would just like everyone to take their pants of their head for a moment and think:

What would eve be like if they had the same mechanic.

If everyone on the game who wanted a fight could be anywhere they wanted instantly.

If you could be in any region of the game instantly - and you got to go there in perfect safety.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

115

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Ok how about this:

  • Change SpT in a way that placing a targets only allowed on Alphas and owned Betas/Gammas

  • Keep Epriton Beta only

  • Make NPC on Gamma drop cortexes

  • Make all the Mk2 require Colixium

  • Rework Instrusion mechanics in a way that you don't need to waste a hour as a defender, make it impossible to ninja SAPs, probably roll back to Intrusion 1.0 even

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

116 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2013-11-15 13:37:11)

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

make it so intrusions only happen when you shoot the station armour down to (insert random %).
Owner sets timer (with a random + or - a few hours) & the saps become active.
And so on.....

I could go on but the above would mean outpost owners dont have to waste hours each day defending saps & any one at any time can attack the station to set off its intrusion timer.
Give the stations LARGE amounts of HP with a slow regeneration to repair small time attacks by people just farting around.

Edit: If the DEVs ever do get around to instances im sure they could create a VERY interesting & fun set of mechanics for intrusion that would be far better than what we have now.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

117 (edited by Smokeyii 2013-11-15 14:01:42)

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

I can't believe that the guys who own nearly all the beta stations are complaining about having to defend all the beta stations... oxymoron that?

Oh... wait, yes I can it's Line afterall. I got 99 problems but defending a beta outpost aint one!

118 (edited by Hunter 2013-11-15 14:27:32)

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

     оХ,
     нУ
 как жЕ
  вы эТим
задолбАли
The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

119

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Smokeyii wrote:

I can't believe that the guys who own nearly all the beta stations are complaining about having to defend all the beta stations... oxymoron that?

Oh... wait, yes I can it's Line afterall. I got 99 problems but defending a beta outpost aint one!

I don't mind defending SAPs, I just don't like rats. Wasting a hour just to prevent rats are sneaking around is even more boring than titan ore mining.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

so because you don't like it the devs should change it right?

121

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Spark teleport's purpose is useful but the mechanics need to be adjusted. There could be a timer, which would prevent teleporting to multiple locations rapidly (figure 60min).
As for navigating using field teleports, something does need to be done but what I am uncertain at this time. They could: redesign the static teleport network, shorten the range (if there is) of standard/armor/emergency teleports (to limit crossing entire islands in one use) where two or three are needed to get across an island, redesign how field teleports function (beacon only where you can teleport from a static to the field where a squad member deployed tele-beacon), etc...
There are many ways to look at how to nerf/fix teleports. HOWEVER, if the developers do adjust teleport mechanics then PLEASE BOOST ALL BOT SPEEDS by 150%. If it moves 50 = 75kph, 80 = 120kph. Make walking across the island something other than needless waste of time. While keeping the current rules with plates, bot class, and frames vs demobilizers.

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

The world is too small.

123 (edited by Martha Stuart 2013-11-15 16:25:50)

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Smokeyii wrote:

so because you don't like it the devs should change it right?

This is the exact argument your side is making.  "We don't like that the enemy alliance can defend all of their Beta's so we think the DEV's should change it.  We liked it when we could do it, but now that it is used against us its broken and overpowered".  Sound familiar?

The only person who's argument is even remotely unbiased is Arga.  But my major gripe with his arguments is he is arguing against a system that he has never used or lived under.

124 (edited by Martha Stuart 2013-11-15 16:26:35)

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

What if the SpT system was divided into 3 areas.  Green islands, Red island, Blue islands.  You can only spark to green OP's from green OP's, blues to blues, reds to reds?

you would get to keep some of the functionality of the current system, but would limit it to smaller areas.

125 (edited by Burial 2013-11-15 16:23:47)

Re: - Spark Teleport - Power Projection - Now with poll!

Same applies to detectors. It was fine when you had detector advantage but now that we do it's suddenly broken.