1 (edited by Jasdemi 2013-03-08 11:16:53)

Topic: Beacon Pit Exploit

* It is strictly forbidden to use any errors or bugs in the game system to gain any kind of advantage in or outside the game.

Since when is abusing game mechanics to stuck NPCs not considered an exploit?

I'm amazed that it's possible to spawn unlimited amount of beacons on the same spot. Limit it to 5 within 500m or so.

This is a response to: http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … challenge/

PS: No wonder we experience such crazy inflation in game. NIC being generated with minimal efforts.


DEV Zoom wrote:

Wow Anni, you still have the batphone? big_smile

That's what the next patch will do actually, extend the 500m single deploy radius rule to all islands. I'm not sure why we only had this rule on Alpha islands so far.

WHAT THE ****?! You confirmed that this is a bug and still allow players to exploit this system?
Dear DEVs, get your *** together. Stop ignoring game breaking exploits. Patch this out immediately.

Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

If it's any consolation, that's a very inefficient way of doing it.

Beacon-chaining works because of explosion damage, not because the NPC's are stuck. You'd achieve the same effect if for example, you did it on a narrow ramp.

500m rule will only change the layout of the beacon pits. They will still be popped in maximum safety with minimal effort. smile

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Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

There are much easier ways to generate NICs than a beacon farming tbh.

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Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

making a restriction on distance that would allow for 3-6 to be done by 1-3 people would be fair


anything else would bring us back to the mindset of nerfing walls, nerfing gamma, upsetting players


I have spoken to a lot of people already and most of them have one foot out the door already and talk of ruining whatever was left is just not good.

I agree something needs to be done, however.

I have a love hate relationship with this game, but it seems to start with lack of trust in the direction of the Devs.

5 (edited by Zortarg Calltar 2013-03-08 13:21:44)

Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

Jasdemi wrote:

PS: No wonder we experience such crazy inflation in game. NIC being generated with minimal efforts.

sry jas but where do you get your numbers from?

infaltion would mean that prizes would go up. but i see only the oposit. look in the market at the raw materials. the prices have been droping for over 1,5 years.

i have sold epriton for 14nic over a year ago. we are at 4.20 atm. and were at over 5nic not long ago.
noralgis is sold for 9nic (sry would not go out doing that f****** work for that ammout of money...)
just alpha resources havent moved that much.

resource prices overall got down so much and you talk about inflation? when prices go down it might be deflation but surly not the other way around.

fact is that we have more input on the market then ppl buying up. thats the reason prices are going down instead of up.

and you still forget the basics (again).

you first have to get the beacons. speeding up the process in killing it is one thing, but its not that you can create beacons out of thin air in a rapid way. only way to create them out of thin air is artefacting, and that is realy a long way to go. artefact for 10h and count your beacons. it will not be too many.

second way is beacons from tokens. well here you can ask, either you can farm tokens too fast, or the prices for the beacons are too low. so now you have to count your farming time for tokens against the avarage worth of the beacons loot.

some math for you:

a T2 racial mech beacon costs 40tokens.
it will yield a avarage:
NIC (Plasma sold at 325): 6,7mil
Kernels T4: ~24-30
Some loot and higher tier items. which are hart to tell whats it worth. dependend what you do with it. but any way the plasma is the main part.

if you buy your tokens on th emarket: price before the anoucement was ~120.000nic (now lower)
thats 4,8mil vs 6,7mil plasma. = 1,9mil nic gain per beacon at a investment of nearly 5mil.
well it it would be much lower it would hardy be worth the job. as soon as the patch comes out i guess prices will drop even further because time of killing beacons will rise by quite a bit.

so: one token to beacon to plasma to nic =  (6,7m plasma / 40 tokens) 167.500nic then the question arises how much time do i need to get the token + how much time do i need to get the nic out of the token (beacon).
THIS IS THE QUESTION THAT IS IMPORTANT, NOT JUST HOW FAST YOU CAN KILL THE BEACONS!!!

(ps.: nic ratio of T3 mech beacons per tokens are worse. yes i have numbers...)

but back to your topic:
terraforming is part of the game. using it against npcs is also.

and i still think the poping beacons is not that big of a problem. would be otherwise if beacons were for free. if there is a problem then in the way how to get the beacons.

EDIT:
my mesmer with suport can create (solo with support bot) on alpha2 in the right spawns plasma worth up to 26mil nic per hour.

now compare beacons that are mostly done in groups and compare alpha farming with this.
do your math and tell me again if its that big of a issue. when getting the beacons is takeing into consideration. and split the group of members doing the beacons on multible spawns on alpha... ...

Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

Zortarg in your nic calculations are you including kernels and modules/fragments?

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7 (edited by Zortarg Calltar 2013-03-08 13:50:03)

Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

Zortarg Calltar wrote:

it will yield a avarage:
NIC (Plasma sold at 325): 6,7mil
Kernels T4: ~24-30
Some loot and higher tier items. which are hart to tell whats it worth. dependend what you do with it. but any way the plasma is the main part.

the gain of kernels is differtent from beacon types, besides the market is dead for it for ages. so what numbers do you want to use for it?

as written above loot is hard to handle.
you can take a avarage price for the higher tier items and substract the repair costs.

t1 loot is even more difficult. do you repair and recycle, recycle only, and what numbers do you use to calculate it. and what facilities and skills do you have at hand... (and if you have t3 facilities then you would have to calculate that investments as well)

fragments are not realy worth anything.

the numbers up there are plasma/nic only. of cource loot is there. i only have vague numbers for that, because it heavy depends and is fifferent for most beacon types.
for example of the t2 mech beacon had: 0,06 T4 items and 0,85 T3 items + around 80u of T1 loot all of cource damaged.

with all these factor around the loot its hard to call a number but i would say ~2mil nic at max. but that is materials and way harder to turn ito nic. so you can substract a effort there as well. because its not the nic you get in a click.

edit:
the problem i have in this whole beacon discussion is that everybody sees that big nic per hour from poping beacons. just a mob with no facts discussing a problem without realizing what the numbers are behind it and without putting the whole picture into consideration. (yes i might have made me even more popular with that post)

just like i hate 90% of the ppl that are against nuclear power plants. dont get me wrong i am against that too. but when i am against something then i have to know what the problem is with it. if i ask 100 anti nuclear ppl then only 10 ppl can tell me how a nuclear reactor works and why the radio active stuff in there is so dangerous.
this example might be taken from a bit far away. but i hope some ppl get the point. dont just complain. first you have to understand the problem and then, and only then you should complain. if you know nothing just shut *** **** **.

sry for that...

Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

Ah see it now.

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Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

of cource it has to have a benefit over alpha farming, why do it if it has not???

10 (edited by Inda 2013-03-08 13:59:22)

Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

Thank you Zortarg the good post.

I think the DEVs need to see in the beta assigments, and allow 3-5 beacon at a time for pop up. Then check whats happening. Or dont nerf any about beacons.

1 problem also here when the tokens is not just for beacons. The tokens for structure kernel as well and faction ammos you should not let the price go higer than is normal, because this screw up the other 2 thing.

faction ammo was: 16 000 NIC / each I cant handle this number (60 token for 450 piece ammo = 60 *120 000 = 7 200 000/ 450 = 16 000 NIC.). Yes I can do missions but this is not normal.
16 000 NIC for ammo it is insane.

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

well i just pointed out the thing where i see reason to act. i did not say you have to nerv the missions or you have to make that cheeper or this more expensive.

but i realy think that is the part where the ballancing should happen. you have to get the thing at the root and not just try to get rid of the symptoms. because if you go for the symptoms it might work for the time beeing, but othe rproblems will arise sooner or later.

12 (edited by Burial 2013-03-08 14:12:06)

Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

Easiest ASAP fix is to first raise Beacon prices in Syndicate Store and then balance assignment rewards versus time spent doing them.

Adding restrictions on laying beacons is absolutely not needed. Balancing is the key here and should be done gradually.

13 (edited by Annihilator 2013-03-08 14:22:17)

Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

time to get 40 tokens? not very long.

You spark port to ICS beta, take Geoscan mission (23 tokens + ~900k NIC), spark to heydelhorn, take Geoscan mission (8 tokens + 300k NIC), undock light ewar with t4 geoscanner + t4 speed nexus + T4 lwf and run ~1km.

cycle two times a geoscan charge, run back to outpost, repeat.

thats like 5min, 1.2M NIC and 31 Tokens. Since your doing two missions, no limit of runs,
1km running back an forth is no risk.
Do it with like 4 accounts and you get 120 Tokens every 5 minutes + 4.8 Million NIC.

Thats only an example i have access to - pretty sure there are more effective ones.

all this will be History once the random mission generator is out. Until then, have fun generating NIC and Tokens with zero risk involved.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

Burial wrote:

Easiest ASAP fix is to first raise Beacon prices in Syndicate Store and then balance assignment rewards versus time spent doing them.

Adding restrictions on laying beacons is absolutely not needed. Balancing is the key here and should be done gradually.

+1 000 000 000

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

Burial wrote:

Easiest ASAP fix is to first raise Beacon prices in Syndicate Store and then balance assignment rewards versus time spent doing them.

Adding restrictions on laying beacons is absolutely not needed. Balancing is the key here and should be done gradually.

+1

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Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

Burial wrote:

Easiest ASAP fix is to first raise Beacon prices in Syndicate Store and then balance assignment rewards versus time spent doing them.

Adding restrictions on laying beacons is absolutely not needed. Balancing is the key here and should be done gradually.

+1 Burial for president!

Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

Came to be entertained...left disappointed.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
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Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

Zortag hit the nail on the head. He gets my vote for CSM.

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Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

Syndic wrote:

Zortag hit the nail on the head. He gets my vote for CSM.

i stopped reading after he said fragments are not worth anything. +1 for balancing the rewards rather than nerfing beacons.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

Wait.. you know how nuclear power plants work, but your still against them?

If waste is your only concern ...

http://news.discovery.com/tech/alternat … 121109.htm

Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

Merkle wrote:

Came to be entertained...left disappointed.

That's what she said!  big_smile

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
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22 (edited by Dazamin 2013-03-08 19:49:02)

Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

Zortarg Calltar wrote:
Zortarg Calltar wrote:

it will yield a avarage:
NIC (Plasma sold at 325): 6,7mil
Kernels T4: ~24-30
Some loot and higher tier items. which are hart to tell whats it worth. dependend what you do with it. but any way the plasma is the main part.

the gain of kernels is differtent from beacon types, besides the market is dead for it for ages. so what numbers do you want to use for it?

as written above loot is hard to handle.
you can take a avarage price for the higher tier items and substract the repair costs.

t1 loot is even more difficult. do you repair and recycle, recycle only, and what numbers do you use to calculate it. and what facilities and skills do you have at hand... (and if you have t3 facilities then you would have to calculate that investments as well)

fragments are not realy worth anything.

the numbers up there are plasma/nic only. of cource loot is there. i only have vague numbers for that, because it heavy depends and is fifferent for most beacon types.
for example of the t2 mech beacon had: 0,06 T4 items and 0,85 T3 items + around 80u of T1 loot all of cource damaged.

So your numbers are wrong and don't take into account half of the drops. gg.

You mention the market being dead for kernels, which is always going to happen in this game when very few new players come in, kernels just aren't as important any more for most corps. But the market is dead for most items. You talk about prices dropping, it drops because supply is much higher than demand. Everything can be farmed in much greater quantities than is required for use. Like it or not, beacon farming is part of that problem.

The balance is off on Gamma farming right now. My own PoV is that Gamma should be made less safe, but if you don't like increased risk then you're gonna have to live with reduced rewards, you can't have everything.

Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

Dazamin wrote:
Zortarg Calltar wrote:
Zortarg Calltar wrote:

it will yield a avarage:
NIC (Plasma sold at 325): 6,7mil
Kernels T4: ~24-30
Some loot and higher tier items. which are hart to tell whats it worth. dependend what you do with it. but any way the plasma is the main part.

the gain of kernels is differtent from beacon types, besides the market is dead for it for ages. so what numbers do you want to use for it?

as written above loot is hard to handle.
you can take a avarage price for the higher tier items and substract the repair costs.

t1 loot is even more difficult. do you repair and recycle, recycle only, and what numbers do you use to calculate it. and what facilities and skills do you have at hand... (and if you have t3 facilities then you would have to calculate that investments as well)

fragments are not realy worth anything.

the numbers up there are plasma/nic only. of cource loot is there. i only have vague numbers for that, because it heavy depends and is fifferent for most beacon types.
for example of the t2 mech beacon had: 0,06 T4 items and 0,85 T3 items + around 80u of T1 loot all of cource damaged.

So your numbers are wrong and don't take into account half of the drops. gg.

You mention the market being dead for kernels, which is always going to happen in this game when very few new players come in, kernels just aren't as important any more for most corps. But the market is dead for most items. You talk about prices dropping, it drops because supply is much higher than demand. Everything can be farmed in much greater quantities than is required for use. Like it or not, beacon farming is part of that problem.

The balance is off on Gamma farming right now. My own PoV is that Gamma should be made less safe, but if you don't like increased risk then you're gonna have to live with reduced rewards, you can't have everything.

I don't want to even begin to tell you the amount of time and energy and Money that is invested in getting a gamma island "safe"  Hell even when you think it's "safe" theres always those two guys(or one using a proxy to connect to perpetuum) who never seem to have a life, who sit in perpetuum all day neglecting their family, responsibilty, and general have no life who just poke holes into what you thought is a "safe" investment.  Which leads to trial and error, during times where you risk EVERYTHING.  What stops a well organized fleet coming in, getting through the initial defenses and laying seige to a base taking it and surrounding it by turrets?  12 terminal cap rule, thats it. 

2 Months. 5 guys, and billions of nic later, to be "relatively" safe and even then it's never 100% safe.  You really need to experience the content and enjoy it before you appreciate things.  I never thought in my entire game development I would enjoy building/terraforming as much as I do now.  Honestly, I was hardcore against this expansion because I thought it would be the lamest thing ever.  But now, seeing some of the empires and their designs and base structures and even creating my own, it is an awesome and spectcular thing.  I am so proud of the the guys in pretty hate machine for building what we have now.  It is a feeling of great accomplishment when you undock, look around and go, "We built this gentlemen."

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Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

Ville wrote:

it is an awesome and spectcular thing.  I am so proud of the the guys in pretty hate machine for building what we have now.  It is a feeling of great accomplishment when you undock, look around and go, "We built this gentlemen."

and then have the devs make a change that negates all that work... yes I'm still bitter.

Re: Beacon Pit Exploit

Just confirming that I have no life.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13