Topic: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

As you can probably all remember we had a server downtime/maintenance this past Saturday (2013-01-19), where apparently something went wrong with some emergency phase timers.

The issue concerns the gamma colony of CHAOS on Landers Bridge. According to the logs a lot of their buildings have been shot into emergency phase in the morning of that Saturday, around 7:00 CET or so. This of course means that they should have been invulnerable for the next 3 days, but instead they got destroyed that very day with some kills stretching into 1-2:00 AM on Sunday the 20th. So in theory this shouldn't have had happened, however we do not see in the logs that they exited their emergency phase either. Also, we can't see anything wrong in the code either, and noone else reported such issues, so currently we're assuming that something went wrong in the database during maintenance.

If you took part in this battle (on either side), we'd like to have your input here. Is it really how this went down, did you see emergency shields when you got to the base and could shoot them despite this, or they didn't have the effect, did they have a PvP flag, stuff like that. Any details you remember or things that didn't seem normal could help us prevent this from happening again.

Re: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

From what I remember some had the reinforcement ring and some didn't but none were pvp flagged.

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Re: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

So, from our own experience with this we already know what happened. As we know many buildings were connected to the northern chaos base, we shot all the turrets off it and reinforced the buildings. The next day chaos took down that northern terminal that was connected to all of these buildings, we know this because it was invulnerable with the 3 day timer that new terminals have. So what they did not know is when you break a connection from a terminal to a building it flags the building or buildings. It then flagged all the buildings with connection to this northern terminal (now taken down and put back up) and allowed them to be killed (as we learned from when they hit us.) So long story short they broke connection to the buildings it pvp flagged them and took away their reinforce, they are then able to be killed.

Re: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

Current mechanic for reinforce works like this if i shoot a reactor for example and put it into reinforce then the owner comes along and during that structures reinforce time disconnects or otherwise loses command that structure, that structure will flag for pvp because there is no owner ...

I would begin by looking at the logs for chaos colony management to see who took down the terminal commanding thoes structures they lost. this has been the case from at least july (when i found out about it).

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

they had like 3 new terminals so I would say they did this a couple of times. Nothing with the maintenance caused this because the only structures and terminal left in reinforcement was B.O.S's.

2nd Top Killer 2012
02: 061 -- 353 -- 292 : Xadhoom


"Annihilator no fix for crashes when fighting burial/merkle/xadhoom ?"

Re: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

Thanks so far, more log digging then smile

7 (edited by Merkle 2013-01-22 02:25:17)

Re: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

<>

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Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

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Re: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

^^ What they said.

Without seeing the colony management I can't say with absolute certainty which buildings got command from which terminals but given their positions on the island I would say it was fairly self evident.

Only the buildings which derived command from terminals which had been taken down and re-constructed could be destroyed. Breaking command to re-inforced buildings is a mistake we have made before but luckily for us, no-one from the other side noticed.

Breaking command flips the flag. Working as intended?

Re: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

The small section north of the main terminal got blew up, it is controlled by skynet, which was not deconstructed.  The structures on the energy transmitter line feeding the East are controlled by Skynet facility as well got blown up, which is connected to a terminal that was not deconstructed.  Those items I just mention did not have a reinforcement ring around them and were blown up.  The north teleport buildings Were not flagged, btw Canthra.  As far as I know no buildings on the north Teleport were ever deconstructed.  I'll pull the screen shot from Davy once Google translator works properly.

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10 (edited by Xadhoom 2013-01-22 15:23:43)

Re: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

to be honest it's not relevant since we are going to be purging the whole island anyway. It would be nice if the Dev's didn't involve them selves and give chaos back there assist's because of there own foolish mistake.

2nd Top Killer 2012
02: 061 -- 353 -- 292 : Xadhoom


"Annihilator no fix for crashes when fighting burial/merkle/xadhoom ?"

Re: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

To solve the issue it sounds like the PVP flag is overwriting the reinforcement flag or the PVP flag is being processed before the reinforcement flag. Shouldn't be too much of a problem to solve.

The devs can now recreate the issue too based on user feedback so whoever claims that the Perpetuum community aren't helpful is very very wrong. It's great to see people can come together to resolve bugs when the occur.

Re: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

Some of the affected buildings was in their own native network. Reconection between terminal network didn't triggered the issue.

Re: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

DEV Zoom wrote:

As you can probably all remember we had a server downtime/maintenance this past Saturday (2013-01-19), where apparently something went wrong with some emergency phase timers.

The issue concerns the gamma colony of CHAOS on Landers Bridge. According to the logs a lot of their buildings have been shot into emergency phase in the morning of that Saturday, around 7:00 CET or so. This of course means that they should have been invulnerable for the next 3 days, but instead they got destroyed that very day with some kills stretching into 1-2:00 AM on Sunday the 20th. So in theory this shouldn't have had happened, however we do not see in the logs that they exited their emergency phase either. Also, we can't see anything wrong in the code either, and noone else reported such issues, so currently we're assuming that something went wrong in the database during maintenance.

If you took part in this battle (on either side), we'd like to have your input here. Is it really how this went down, did you see emergency shields when you got to the base and could shoot them despite this, or they didn't have the effect, did they have a PvP flag, stuff like that. Any details you remember or things that didn't seem normal could help us prevent this from happening again.

Ahahahahah.... You make me laugh... You so cares about landers and so ignored my requests about events on ultramarine base. Very interesting!!! lol

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
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Re: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

Re: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

Canthra Monero wrote:

So, from our own experience with this we already know what happened. As we know many buildings were connected to the northern chaos base, we shot all the turrets off it and reinforced the buildings. The next day chaos took down that northern terminal that was connected to all of these buildings, we know this because it was invulnerable with the 3 day timer that new terminals have. So what they did not know is when you break a connection from a terminal to a building it flags the building or buildings. It then flagged all the buildings with connection to this northern terminal (now taken down and put back up) and allowed them to be killed (as we learned from when they hit us.) So long story short they broke connection to the buildings it pvp flagged them and took away their reinforce, they are then able to be killed.

^

Re: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

Hunter wrote:

Ahahahahah.... You make me laugh... You so cares about landers and so ignored my requests about events on ultramarine base. Very interesting!!! lol

it was not that important at that time wink

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

17

Re: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

Annihilator wrote:
Hunter wrote:

Ahahahahah.... You make me laugh... You so cares about landers and so ignored my requests about events on ultramarine base. Very interesting!!! lol

it was not that important at that time wink


so its important now that hundreds of structures are being blown up? lol

The present mechanic has been in place for months. NO one cared because no one was getting assaulted but STC,  Nebs and dream.

Im sure zoom will find exactly what Alexadar Stated:

Alexadar wrote:

Some of the affected buildings was in their own native network.

meaning they were not connected to any player network.



The problem is lack of documentation on mechanics and how the game works. You have to find out first hand how something works. Then you just keep the info to your self so you have the advantage over others.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

You have to find out first hand how something works. Then you just keep the info to your self so you have the advantage over others.

i always thought thats one thing games are about...

Re: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

Zortarg Calltar wrote:

You have to find out first hand how something works. Then you just keep the info to your self so you have the advantage over others.

i always thought thats one thing sandboxgames are about...

fixed for you wink

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

20 (edited by Cassius 2013-01-22 23:35:37)

Re: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

Annihilator wrote:
Zortarg Calltar wrote:

You have to find out first hand how something works. Then you just keep the info to your self so you have the advantage over others.

i always thought thats one thing sandboxgames are about...

fixed for you wink

Sorry but poor tutorials =/= emerging sandbox gameplay.


Edit 'cause I'm still mad bro:  I recall when Nebs base was attacked by Chaos with mechanics we were not aware of at the time we were told by higher ups to deal with it. Please don't tell me now that Chaos was not aware of how a mechanic works and as a result they have lost buildings that its going to be dealt with. There really does need to be better information provided on all the MPC structures and exactly how they work and their specs ... Even the Devs have identified they need to revamp their tutorial. Until that happens this will happen.

But to be PERFECTLY clear, in the end the reason you will lose structures is because you don't defend them with bots and players. Turrets and boosters just aren't enough.

Re: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

For additional  information - you might want to look at the Southeast corner of Landers over the last few days.   I believe the same tactics were at use - but with subtle differences - (The defenders made it "work" this time.)

Lots of buildings were put into reinforcement on Sunday -  3 day timer.   Today, during my destruction stroll around the island - I see that they are out of reinforcement - And the terminal they were attached to is also completely out of reinforcement. as well as completely repaired.  All of this is before the timer was set to expire. 

Again - my guess is that terminal was deconstructed and put back up - which reset the timers prematurely. 


As an aside -  This seems like a poorly designed mechanic -  It's too slanted to the defenders.

Re: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

don't mistake those as intended design features.

there hasn't been much developement on gamma mechanics after PTS was launched and opened up for us to "test".

A few player have "tested" how terraforming and base bilding works, even less player have tested and tried out how the base management works -> do you think in those two weeks many tested AND told DEVs how to break things?

and even if they TOLD the DEVS, often enough the typical AC response came back: "we don't expect any1 doing that", eg. terraforming a wall around each teleporter of the island and plaster it with turrets.

you bet, none of the current active DEVs have thought about player deconstructing terminals that are in reinforce mode.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

Alexadar wrote:

Some of the affected buildings was in their own native network. Reconection between terminal network didn't triggered the issue.


Then explain why allot of the structures on North were partly deconstructed.

to my knowledge you can't deconstruct anything if it has an active command link.

2nd Top Killer 2012
02: 061 -- 353 -- 292 : Xadhoom


"Annihilator no fix for crashes when fighting burial/merkle/xadhoom ?"

24

Re: 2013-01-19/20 Landers Bridge battle issues - input needed

Xadhoom wrote:
Alexadar wrote:

Some of the affected buildings was in their own native network. Reconection between terminal network didn't triggered the issue.


Then explain why allot of the structures on North were partly deconstructed.

to my knowledge you can't deconstruct anything if it has an active command link.

you can have command it just needs to be off line to decon

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.