• BKK
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Topic: Weapon Balance: Ammo production

Is it just me, or did the Indu 2.0 changes totally ignore former balance?

Laser used to have high power consumption, cheap and easy to build ammo (stermonit only)

each other weapon system had a cheap and easy to build type that was NOT the universal chemoactive one.

now it seems that firearms aside, Laser ammo is the most expensive one (low damage per shot) with the same complexity as all others.

the universal (single damage or chemoactive) are currently the least complex ones to build.
Firearm (noob weapon wink) bullets are the most complex ones alltogether.

note: complex = number of raws and commodities.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

2 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2012-10-05 12:51:49)

  • JOKE
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Re: Weapon Balance: Ammo production

How can you calculate the more expensive ones? The market can sway from 1 ammo type to another depending on material values, which right now with such a low volume traded is difficult to set a true value anyways. Complexity is the same all round as you say so, good change.

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  • BKK
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Re: Weapon Balance: Ammo production

If i compare Medium Sonic Missiles (80/120 Dmg) with Medium Thermal Energy Cells (48 Dmg):

All three need each 2 commodities: 50 Titantium + 200 Faction (Polynucleit or Phlobotil)

Titanium: 75 Titan Ore
Polynucleit: 50 Stermonit, 25 liquizt, 30 Prismocitae
Plobotil: 50 Silgium, 25 Liquizit, 30 Triandlus

price difference is decided by silgium and triandlus vs. stermonit and Prismocitae

Missile deals 1,67 / 2,5 times the damage.

you can do the math on your own, on how much the price difference for the ores on market has to be to make both ammo types comparable in price per damage.

btw, if you compare chemoactive ammos (50Titanium, 100 axicoline, 100 factional) the fraction of different ores that could affect the pricedifference becomes even less.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

4 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2012-10-05 13:35:37)

  • JOKE
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Re: Weapon Balance: Ammo production

So its a damage/price issue now. Laser does more damage seems logical you would need more ammo.

Anyways the market value should adjust itself with higher demand for laser ammo compared to missiles, but as their is virtually no market it does not happen. Population is the issue with 99% of problems in this game.

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  • BKK
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Re: Weapon Balance: Ammo production

for me the MARKET value of ammo itself doesnt matter at all, since im building it on corp production.

its a matter of fact that i have to mine 2.5 times the minerals to fire my lasers, that already consume more AP per shot as justification for their more DPS. (hurray, 144 AP every 2s vs. 12 AP every 4.5s)

so, population or market dynamics has absolutely nothing to do with the hard fact that laser are the second most expensive weapons to use ingame.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear
  • JOKE
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Re: Weapon Balance: Ammo production

Do you realize you can farm more 'NIC' with a seth than a gropho....

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  • BKK
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Re: Weapon Balance: Ammo production

I don't think NIC-farming is the issue here...
I'm a little lazy to calculate it completely through as indy guy but let me have a look at it with annis data:

laser con / missile pro:
- 2,5x minerals for laser ammo to get the same damage as missiles (not DPS!)
- ~27x more accu consumption on lasers (72 AP/s vs 2,67 AP/s)
laser pro / missile con:
- cycletime: 2s vs 4,5s: laser shoots 2,5x times faster

First Conclusion:
mineral amount would balance the speed out, but theres still the high accu consumption.
first conclusion cause I don't know whether you want/need to take range and other things into consideration here too. With range (290 vs 180/360) you still won't be able to get a balance here. Please add if I missed something.

Second conclusion: still nothing to do with income or NIC