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Topic: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

As Topic states Please discuss or bring in ideas to help low EP players function in the game easier.


Brought over what Alexadar posted to get it started.

Alexadar wrote:

Mkay. What i propose, to solve newbies and lightbots problem:
1. Castel: +1 headslot, +50% capregen, -0.5m hitsize
2. Prometheus: -0.5 hitsize, +1 head and legslot, +30% resists
3. Yagel (or ***, as someone said): +1 legslot, -1m hitsize

+10% speed.

This will make lightbots much durable and will give them ability to be main DPS force for light EW gangs.
Newbies will enjoy them, vets will make new toys.

I remember Assaults in open beta had a bonus to damage vs mechs... don't remember the wording or the math but it made assaults a good choice in mixed fleets. As of right now I only know of a few vets who would even raise there hand if asked who wants to take their assaults on a roam and RG is no longer here so I don't count them.

I think that the price of Mk2 lights (materials) is very high for what the bot is or came from lower the mat cost,  increase the drop rate of mk2 light CTs, and buff the Mk2 light damage output and stats.

Add a demob % and range bonus on all light bots (not Ewar lights) as most new players wishing to come PVP won't be much more than bait or a De-mobber any how let them excel in that roll.

Add or change all weapon slots on lights to all types this include this on light E-wars as well. So if they want missles on a yagel why not.

Participate, Congratulate cause everything else will be seen as HATE.
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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

I belive the main issue is the slot numbers on lights asfar as i can tell the higher tier bot the morre slots they have
light bots cant relly do any thing whit their current slot layout

Also mk2 lights (not Ewar) have the slots t1 lights shulda had to start whit

but a change like this wuld need change of bonuses and stats and possebly removing/changin module fitting

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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/post/71833/#p71833

They have acknowledged that they want to make them more interesting big_smile

Slots / locking range are light bots biggest problems. They only have 1 head slot and must fit a sensor amp unless they want to spend all their time relocking.

They are not much faster than assault bots either and their good detection isn't enough to make them useful.

They also lack an "other" slot that assault bots have where they could fit a neut/drainer, etc.

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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

Number of slots are fine, speed is fine, demob is fine. Lowering the surface hit size of player lights would be an interesting addition though.

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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

Doek wrote:

Number of slots are fine, speed is fine, demob is fine. Lowering the surface hit size of player lights would be an interesting addition though.

its fine if you say the small combat bot is not for combat but for demobbing only...

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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

Doek wrote:

Number of slots are fine, speed is fine, demob is fine. Lowering the surface hit size of player lights would be an interesting addition though.

They are not fine i understand that they are supposed to be some kinda stepping stone but they are completly usless as they are now

the mk2 variants have a role the mk1 are just not usable fo any thing

as a demober the light bots have like a 150m lock range and 12.5 sec lock time that makes them HIGHLY inefficent demober 

lowering hit size only helps it a little bit but makes shields even morre efficent on a certan bot type and maybe esvasive mods fitted on to these just makes them impossible to kill witch is not what u whant

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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

Estamel Tharch0n wrote:
Doek wrote:

Number of slots are fine, speed is fine, demob is fine. Lowering the surface hit size of player lights would be an interesting addition though.

They are not fine i understand that they are supposed to be some kinda stepping stone but they are completly usless as they are now

the mk2 variants have a role the mk1 are just not usable fo any thing

as a demober the light bots have like a 150m lock range and 12.5 sec lock time that makes them HIGHLY inefficent demober 

lowering hit size only helps it a little bit but makes shields even morre efficent on a certan bot type and maybe esvasive mods fitted on to these just makes them impossible to kill witch is not what u whant

They are not even a stepping stone, if you are not in an assault bot day one you are a failure at Perpetuum.

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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

1620 EP and your in a mech.

starting with 20k EP,
adding 20k EP from kickstarter edition -> you can in theory skill up to drive a mech with medium weapons just after agent creation.

lvl 5 adv. robotics and lvl5 medium weapon = 12k EP

even assault is not really a stepping stone when you join a corp and get the mech with weapons for free.

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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

Light bots are not that useless, I have roamed in a Castel many a time.  Myself and another Castel took out a T4 autocannon fit Artemis.

The problem is, if you give them more slots you reduce the gap to assault bots and they become even less of an option.  I think a little more speed, lock range, smaller hit size and maybe 1 extra head slot is all that is needed.  They are not supposed to be able to beat equal numbers of larger bots.  But a group of 3 or 4 lights should cause a solo mech pilot cause for concern.

The reason no one uses them is that everyone that can drive a mech will only drive a mech,  so the group of light bots is only a hit and run option.  Kill something then get the hell outa dodge, as you know the responce will be 5 MK2 Mechs and a fast tackle coming to get you.

10 Reply by Martha Stuart (edited by Martha Stuart 2012-09-09 04:31:39)

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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

I agree the lights and assbots need a buff. but I would also like to point out that a properly equipped Wasp mk2 is one nasty little bugger on the battlefield.  My current build can take on a mech in 1 v 1 and win in the majority of those fights.  But again, this only applies to the Wasp mk2.  I would like to see the Baph and Arby mk2's be able to have similar capabilities.   

The other thought I have is that if you buff out the bottom line of the lights and assbots, once a high EP player gets into one with tapped out skills, i don't want them to be overpowered.  For example,  a high EP player in a Troiar mk2 is one hell of an opponent without drainers/neuts or a sizeable advantage in numbers.

P.S. I want to see assbot roams as a viable option when considering loadouts for roams.  my favorite bot in the game is the Wasp mk2, bar none.  Its just that when going up against properly fitted mech/heavy mech gangs you don't stand a chance.

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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

@martha Mk2 Assault gangs are a viable option look at what RG was doing back in the day 5-6 man mk2 assault roams they would get in kill a few and get out. Max speed nexus helped them alot and killing tackles with a suppression fit wasp was the key 3 rocket volleys in the air would kill tackle before it knew it was getting shot if it was un-shielded.
@kustom how much EP did you have before you started roaming in your castel of doom?
@Estamel yeah the Mk2 light variants have a roll its I have so much ep i can kill your mech with a light or I have so much EP I can tank a prom mk2 out to 6k Hp.... Its not a roll new players with 40k EP can do seeing the material costs of mk2 lights.
@doek really? all is well on the light bot front? why is the only use they get is slapping on a t4 detector and being eyes or gate scouts.

The thing is if they give the light an extra head slot it is almost an assault that would make the mk2 light an assault in terms of fitting minus one gun and miss slot. I see no problem in this but i think they would have to buff the bonuses of assaults to keep people from only running cheaper lights then.

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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

Lobo wrote:

The thing is if they give the light an extra head slot it is almost an assault that would make the mk2 light an assault in terms of fitting minus one gun and miss slot. I see no problem in this but i think they would have to buff the bonuses of assaults to keep people from only running cheaper lights then.

now, look at the difference between mk2 mech and mk1 heavy mech, and tell me if theres another difference then two more weapon slots...
Does the regular heavy mech got an extra buff in bonuses to compensate that?

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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

i see no problem if ppl start running more light. Some of the best fights i had was in small light bot fights smile

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14 Reply by KUSTOMROD (edited by KUSTOMROD 2012-09-09 08:10:25)

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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

@ Lobo - Looking back on the kills, it was a year ago that Vaelen Gar and I started the Castel roams.  So I would of only had 300K EP.

http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=7546

Thinking on that, now my Castel would be even more deadly.

Edit:

@ Obi - Yes light bot roams are the most fun, and a mixed group of lights, light EW & assaults is fantastic as well.  Heaps better than the slow *** heavy mech roams people want to do.  Bigger is not always better people.  Just consider how many light or assault bots you could lose for the price of 1 heavy mech.

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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

personaly i think assults are fine i have no problem fitting up a assult bot to fight,  also i dont think assults capability shuld be killing mechs but kill light and other assults  maybe there shuld be morre of a speed diffrence btw assult/lights then mechs  right now a wasp is as fast as a kain witch makes u wonder why??

but light bots just cant do any thing they have 2 lows and 1 high what can u do whit these s 3 slots?? u cant do any thing efficent

but relly to ppl thinking lights shuld be good against mechs is not understanding why they are ***

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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

Martha Stuart wrote:

I agree the lights and assbots need a buff. but I would also like to point out that a properly equipped Wasp mk2 is one nasty little bugger on the battlefield.  My current build can take on a mech in 1 v 1 and win in the majority of those fights.  But again, this only applies to the Wasp mk2.  I would like to see the Baph and Arby mk2's be able to have similar capabilities.   

The other thought I have is that if you buff out the bottom line of the lights and assbots, once a high EP player gets into one with tapped out skills, i don't want them to be overpowered.  For example,  a high EP player in a Troiar mk2 is one hell of an opponent without drainers/neuts or a sizeable advantage in numbers.

P.S. I want to see assbot roams as a viable option when considering loadouts for roams.  my favorite bot in the game is the Wasp mk2, bar none.  Its just that when going up against properly fitted mech/heavy mech gangs you don't stand a chance.

My Prommy MK1 can solo your tyrannos and waspish.  At the Same time and kill you again. http://perp-kill.net/?m=related&id=239407
It's all in who is piloting what.

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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

The only benefit small bots should have is there price. It makes no sence to have light bots as strong as mechs, if you want to hit as hard as a mech stay in the game for a month and skill into them. As for helping new players get started in the game it's up to the vets to show them how to use 20-40k ep in a specialized direction right at first and the best rolls they can play in a fleet. Example= 1 vet in a mech + 6 day 1 players in light ewars can be very strong

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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

The only benefit small bots should have is there price. It makes no sence to have light bots as strong as mechs, if you want to hit as hard as a mech stay in the game for a month and skill into them.

skilling into light bots to be as effective as an mech needs almost the same EP. yet when both sides on same EP and equip level, the light bot has zero chances due to them beeing simply DEAD in a few seconds.

ville, thats a very good example how a 1.5 year Vet can kill a few week old jack-of-all trades noobs. please show me how you do that with an trial alt skilled only into light bots...

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19 Reply by Ville (edited by Ville 2012-09-10 21:17:46)

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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

@Anni, please look at which account that is.

He is really good in a riveler too.

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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

showing of kb links dosent relly prove any thing since there are many factors involved in pvp and kills

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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

It still goes to show, light bots can be a viable fit for pvp and kill tons of stuff

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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

Light bots can catch people off guard but once your surprise has enjoyed one or two kills the enemy quickly dispatch range fit __________ and kill you before you make it off the island. I don't think getting a surprise kill with a turtle prom is all that impressive. Still I've seen kills with proms and with castel but what about ***? Just saying lights in general are not even worth using cept as scout.

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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

and well... all you talk about is pvp....

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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

Lobo wrote:

Light bots can catch people off guard but once your surprise has enjoyed one or two kills the enemy quickly dispatch range fit __________ and kill you before you make it off the island. I don't think getting a surprise kill with a turtle prom is all that impressive. Still I've seen kills with proms and with castel but what about ***? Just saying lights in general are not even worth using cept as scout.

Tell Kanogi I love that fit!

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Re: Light Bot and Assaults - New Player balancing discussion

Estamel Tharch0n wrote:

showing of kb links dosent relly prove any thing since there are many factors involved in pvp and kills

This one is from back in FEB. but...

http://www.perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=131