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Topic: AoE Explosion Damage from Robots.

Just thinking about it, this system has some major flaws which should be fixed.

  1. AoE damage based on Hitpoints
    Fitting plates makes you go boom more violently. Naturally, yellow bots will explode with more boom then blue.

  2. AoE damage Falloff based on hitsize
    Fitting plates makes youre explosion have a bigger radius (10m per med plate)

  3. Aoe damage modified by Explosion radius (aka your hitsize) vs. targets hitsize
    Fitting plates makes you recieve more damage if your in a relatively smaller bot
    Fitting plates on smaller bot makes it a good bomb vs. bigger bots.

  4. AoE damage is equaly divided in all damage types.
    To resist an explosion, you need all resists high.

Three things i would like to see changed there:

1. armor plates modifying hitsize is stupid. There is no logical reason for that
2. AoE damage based on hitpoints is also stupid... should be something else.
3. AoE damage should be 90% seismic, 5% kinetic, 5% thermal, no chemo.

about 3. in detail:
Blue bots with close range weapons also have highest seismic resists, which would be logical for bots that are naturally beeing exposed the the AoE explosions more often. Also, seismic = explosion damage.

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Re: AoE Explosion Damage from Robots.

well, if we're being logical ... explosions should be 33 thermal, 33 kinetic, 33 seismic.
As for the explosion damage being dependant on the amount of armour a bot has ... got any alternative suggestions? i quite like the explosion mechanic.

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Re: AoE Explosion Damage from Robots.

mqx wrote:

well, if we're being logical ... explosions should be 33 thermal, 33 kinetic, 33 seismic.
As for the explosion damage being dependant on the amount of armour a bot has ... got any alternative suggestions? i quite like the explosion mechanic.

+1

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Re: AoE Explosion Damage from Robots.

i like how AOE works atm & dont see any real problem with it. its a mechanic i think the devs got mostly right.

so -1

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Re: AoE Explosion Damage from Robots.

well from the logical point of view you might patially have a point. the problem is if its worth making a fuss over that feature.
i personally think its ok the way it is, and it most likely was the easiest way to do it.
these changes might take time, time the devs might better use somewhere else.

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Re: AoE Explosion Damage from Robots.

about alternatives - DEV Alf had alternative ideas... dunno what happened to them.

logically, Damage should be either fixed per robot/class or based on something realistic, like reactor size

even "destroyed ammo" as base for the damage would be more logical then armor plates...

that would take time.

but the other two changes:
armor plates increasing hitsize is something i never understood why it was implemented. As if the high mass of them and the repair-penalty compared to universal armor hardener isn't enough... Hitsize is used in to many mechanics...

removing it is a job of less then 5mins

And changing the damage types of AoE damage is something that should be something that takes less then 1 minute at all ( changing a DB entry from ".25 / .25 / .25 / .25" to other numbers.

Doing those changes all together is probably less DEV-Time then writing this post.

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Re: AoE Explosion Damage from Robots.

Aoe is fine.

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8 Reply by Sundial (edited by Sundial 2012-09-06 00:08:57)

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Re: AoE Explosion Damage from Robots.

As a long time Perpetuum player I will tell you the best part of having extremely high AoE explosion damage is it completely limits brawler fits to T1 throwaway mechs.

Its totally awesome not being able to do any expensive brawler fits without guaranteed death from someones explosion.

Who would want more diversity in fitting anyway? All we should ever have to fit is LWF + range extenders!

Explosion damage limits the game in more ways than you can think. Ever wonder why we have no close range small weapons? Look no further than explosion damage...

Terrible, terrible mechanic. Interference already requires you to trim the fat in a squad and limits spamming logistics alts.

As for the plates increasing hit size, I completely agree with you. Shields should increase hitsize, armor plates already have enough disadvantages without that as one.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

9 Reply by Kaldenines (edited by Kaldenines 2012-09-06 00:37:01)

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Re: AoE Explosion Damage from Robots.

So if AoE was removed tomorrow what would you fit on your T4 brawler?

I used to use a kain with gauss guns and didn't have trouble with explosion damage too much.  The problem with that setup is its not good for largeish ( 6+ long range dps mechs per side) fights or against anything that can kite it of course.

Explosion damage is what make pvp in perpetuum fun.  Without it I would just play eve.

As for plates increasing explosion damage, well i would just like to blow the old 'there should be diminishing returns trumpet'.

+1
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Re: AoE Explosion Damage from Robots.

Kaldenines wrote:

'there should be diminishing returns trumpet'.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Did I mention yes?

Not having diminishing returns currently is one of the biggest reason for the "spammy" fitting we are forced to do.

As for how I would fit it different, I would fit it exactly the same except with T4. Why bother fitting T4 when their explosion will take you out or you will finish them with yours? Either way you are very likely to die.

I don't think explosion damage is beyond saving, however it needs to be toned down especially in the sense of mech/heavy explosions damaging lights / assaults who have far less range. Horizontal progression and all. All of Annihilators suggestions are good, common sense measures to bring some sense back to it.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.
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Re: AoE Explosion Damage from Robots.

the hitsize penalty on armor plates is also unlogical, since other, similar modules do not have ANY penalty when you fit them, aside the slot they take, while there effect is exponential increasing when you fit multiple of them - eg. any tuning, or recharger on shield fit bots....

back in beta, the penalty on range extender got completely removed with the reason that "it costs a slot"
- now compare armor plates with universal hardener, and tell me why the one has three penalties for increasing your absolute hitpoints, while the other one raises your relative hitpoints almost the same amount, makes repairing better and has less mass... and not a single extra penalty like hitsize....

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Re: AoE Explosion Damage from Robots.

Annihilator wrote:

stuff that made sense and wondered when they made armor plates add hit size.

The armor plate hit size came in when evasive mods were made reducing your hit size.... Which in and of itself isn't logical how about a deflector mod that slopes your armor makeing things miss more..... either way I think some one had the great Idea of putting an evasive mod/evasive nexus and plates on a artimis making it have resists, high armor and low hitsize and someone QQ'd and used the batphone.... Boom nerf ERP ninja patch and you have armor plates that add mass and hitsize and ERPs and armor rep tunings that don't work like intended.

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Re: AoE Explosion Damage from Robots.

actually, the hitsize came with the AoE explosion damage feature.... Evasive mods have been in for ages.

the backthought was that that fitting armor plates on your mech to increase your hitpoints, would also increase your hitsize, which would make your explosion LESS harmfull against smaller bots (remember, explosion damage is calculated like missile damage, with exploding bots hitsize as "explosion radius")

I know that, because i talked with DEV Alf about that... so its no speculation.

The idea, while it sounds nice, backfired, since:

  1. small bots and assaults would need to fit at least 4 medium plates until that reduction would affect anything of the mech class.

  2. an artemis fitting 4 plates would drop its explosion damage vs. another mech by 25%, but in return got 130% more explosion damage.

  3. fitting armor plates under shield is bad since shield efficiency depends on your hitsize

  4. until implementation of accumulator stability, it also made you more prone to neuting

  5. fitting armorplates also makes you more prone to getting hit by high-dispersion weapons, or recieveing more damage by long range missiles or low extension (aka npcs) missile user.

  6. ...

ERP was nerfed due to the fact that they still balance "tanking" around the idea
"how many attacker should a single mech beeing able to tank while beeing able to shoot back" - without thinking aobut RPS - just DpS vs. HPpS

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Re: AoE Explosion Damage from Robots.

I think annihilatOr should stick to Indy threads I mean I know I've Ben gone a while but why are u putting input into parts of the game u don't particapate in when was ur last pvp battle? It's like me saying that all miners should have aoe mineing passive bonus.......

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15 Reply by Annihilator (edited by Annihilator 2012-09-08 21:01:47)

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Re: AoE Explosion Damage from Robots.

im not mining, im doing pve - and its affecting me too... more then anything.


and my harvester got nerfed in favor for terraforming...

my last pvp battle was a few minutes ago big_smile

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Re: AoE Explosion Damage from Robots.

Dieing in arkhe isn't pvp

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Re: AoE Explosion Damage from Robots.

Ville wrote:

Aoe is fine.

See Annihilator? Even when I screw up, I succeed. lol

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18 Reply by Hunter (edited by Hunter 2012-09-14 04:00:09)

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Re: AoE Explosion Damage from Robots.

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … bada-boom/

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Re: AoE Explosion Damage from Robots.

i wonder why we never hear/read public standpoint of DEVs about obvious balance issues...

They could at least make a public statement like "working as intended" or "we will look into it"

with the armor plate hitsize increase - i wonder why a recharger does not decrease your reactor stability...

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Re: AoE Explosion Damage from Robots.

Because they are busy DEVELOPING the game not playing forum moderator.

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Re: AoE Explosion Damage from Robots.

so may things to add & balance & so little time smile

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue