1 (edited by Burial 2012-06-19 13:02:44)

Topic: Add new route to the middle of gammas

Basically the issue currently is that 3 powerblocks in the game can completely cut off the remaining islands from other players. When one powerblock has control of 2 gamma islands that are connected to the beta islands, they can completely cut off other same colored islands. Only way there is through other powerblocks gamma islands that could also be cut off the same way.

What I purpouse is to add another teleport route, one from Alpha2 that connects to the gamma island that has 2 teleports. So Tellesis would connect to Clandrais, Shin would connect to Shuzon and And Hershfield would connect to Solarfield.

BUT THAT WOULD MAKE THE ISLANDS THE MOST SOUGHT AFTER...
Thats not entirely true. If someone still wishes to hold their beta island then still, the ones that are the best right now are still the best. What my idea would merely accoplish is to make other gamma islands good too for certain groups.

BUT HAVING A TURRENT PROTECTED TELEPORT TO SAFE ALPHA IS WRONG...
Yeah, I realised that. The best way to overcome it would be to add another beta island that acts as a buffer but is not connected to the other beta islands. The route would basically be then Alpha2 -> New beta island -> Gamma-with-2teles.(Why not also make the islands more interesting my making these beta islands about half the size of the others.. smaller size means easier to protect, which in turn means that smaller groups have beta access).

Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

-1

As nice as this would be it is self serving to support this.

Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

The thing gamma islands are basically roam proof when done correctly so owning this island would be no additional danger and the logistics would be ez mode compared to other islands.

Owning one of these islands would basically be a license to print NIC.

The new beta island thing sounds ok though.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

-1 if you want something in this game you take it.

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5 (edited by Burial 2012-06-19 16:54:23)

Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

Sundial wrote:

The thing gamma islands are basically roam proof when done correctly so owning this island would be no additional danger and the logistics would be ez mode compared to other islands.

Owning one of these islands would basically be a license to print NIC.

The new beta island thing sounds ok though.

The idea here is just to give some meaning to other gammas too besides the two connected to betas. Right now some block takes the two islands and theres no way to the other gammas. Don't really care about it being roamable or not, just more players to the gamma-game.

Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

You want another route to gamma islands, yet you didn't open the regular ones.
It's a troll thread, reported.

"you're not in an MMO to make friends, you're there to make enemies smile"

Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

Burial wrote:

TURRENT

Too many "turrents" eh? big_smile

Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

Dan wrote:

You want another route to gamma islands, yet you didn't open the regular ones.
It's a troll thread, reported.

i support this mesasge

neither has anyone yet openend the "middle" gamma islands, neither has any1 yet seriously tried to wreak havoc to the one blocked teleport

ontop of that - is the statement not true. I dont see how you can block of gammas by simply closing down two connections each.

last but not least - THERE IS NOTHING but the three powerblocks ingame that could try to get there for... hmm for what exactly?

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Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

I'm going to reserve the right to agree with Burial at a future date.

Currently however, the three gamma gateways aren't even open, so it's too early to start trying to correct for (3) power blocks cutting off gamma access.

That is, sure it COULD happen that way, but it could also end up that one or more of the gateways remains a fully contested zone.

Depending on how long it actually takes for a 3-way stalemate to develop, it could end up that adding more gamma islands is a solution, with new TP routes to them.

tl;dr - 3-way lockdown is one possible scenrio, but it needs to play out, because its only one of many scenrios that could happen, before making any changes.

Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

Transparent self-serving post. Enough with the developer manipulation.

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11 (edited by Burial 2012-06-20 09:17:02)

Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

Syndic wrote:

Transparent self-serving post. Enough with the developer manipulation.

What are you talking about? How would that serve me when smaller factions move to gamma? Its the opposite of it if you think about it.

Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

Burial wrote:

What are you talking about? How would that serve me when smaller factions move to gamma? Its the opposite of it if you think about it.

Ok. Lets imagine that small faction reach Gamma island. This small group spend a LOT of resources and NIC to build the base. What they gonna do after that? How they gonna defend this base?

Can you answer this questions?

Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

Burial wrote:
Syndic wrote:

Transparent self-serving post. Enough with the developer manipulation.

What are you talking about? How would that serve me when smaller factions move to gamma? Its the opposite of it if you think about it.

*Sigh* Fine, I'll do the baby steps for the audience.

There are two conclusions from your post;
a) You are completely disconnected from reality in-game
b) You are trying to manipulate the Developers

Why?
There are only two powerblocks in-game, M2S&Co. and CIR&CHAOS. Of those two, only CIR&CHAOS is a Gamma powerblock because M2S&Co. hasn't opened one yet. TOG can only be considered a powerblock if a mild breeze doesn't blow and obliterates their whole infrastructure.

Any new corporation that comes into the game has ~6-8 months of kernel grinding, stockpile building, internal organizing and generally learning to play to do before they start thinking about squeezing into Gamma so your scenario is only remotely likely at least 6 months from now, and that is if TOG miraculously stops getting their stuff blown up whenever anyone feels like farming some construction blocks.

The jury is still out, but it's looking like its the reality-disconnect, but lets examine it further...

Tellesis connecting to Clandrais which has 2 teleports leading to 2 Gamma islands with 3 teleports each.
Shinjalar connecting to Shuzon which has 2 teleports leading to 2 Gamma islands with 3 teleports each.
Hershfield connecting to Solarfield which has 2 teleports leading to 2 gamma islands with 3 teleports each.

Compared to current immediately accessible Gamma islands, where Beta 2 islands access 3 teleport-islands, and Beta-1 islands access 4 teleport-islands.

Naturally as you say having turret-defended teleports leading straight to Alpha would be a teensy weensy bit OP, so what do you suggest? Ah... a smaller Beta island thats easier to defend, leading into a easy Gamma chokepoint.

Marvelous suggestion.

And what happens when the more intelligent powerblock of the two decides that having an easily defended Beta leading into a good Gamma chokepoint is probably a good idea... Oh yes, someones e-feelings get hurt again and OHNOES-GAME-IS-GETTING-DESTROYED petition spam will be just around the corner. roll

So the jury is STILL out, but leaning more and more towards the reality-disconnect variant. And then the last puzzle piece falls into place...

The whole "Powerblocks blocking off complete Gamma regions and preventing innocent new corporations from experiencing the full potential of the game" argument sounds fine on paper. The reality being that none of the powerblocks in game can project a military presence (actual representation of island control not pretty blips on map) on more then one island. Or, let one of the other 2 powerblocks try this "region control" and I will dismantle it into the ground by the end of the week.

Developer manipulation at its basic form. Presenting an argument they cannot comprehend because they don't understand their own game to the extend the players do. They spend their time coding, we spend ours playing.

Now allowing for the possibility you're posting out of the goodness of your heart and not say secretly plotting to manipulate the Developers into giving your powerblock a better Gamma option, from what background is this coming from?

Your powerblock controls no Gamma. You opened no teleports, you established no bases, you invested 0 assets. All you've done is chase Arkhes around for two weeks while we built our defenses up. Therefore, you have absolutely zero experience or idea, what sort of NIC investment it would involve to terraform only the outer gates of a whole island chain, nevermind actually setting up any turrets.

As a final argument, the jury considers you are an EVE veteran and cannot possibly be dull enough to miss the implications of what you're suggesting and how so very beneficial it would be for your powerblock who knows they will get attacked the moment they stick their nose out to Gamma.

And thus I conclude and the jury has reached a verdict, opportunistic Developer manipulation. Which we've had quite enough of already.

I suggest actually trying what they've coded for a few months before campaigning for changes.

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Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

Burial wrote:

Basically the issue currently is that 3 powerblocks in the game can completely cut off the remaining islands from other players. When one powerblock has control of 2 gamma islands that are connected to the beta islands, they can completely cut off other same colored islands. Only way there is through other powerblocks gamma islands that could also be cut off the same way.

... error ...   does not compute ... 


The way I see it, if you want to control something - put agents in the field and be present to control it.  Simple as that.  If you think that CIR/CHAOS or HOKK alliance is such a huge power block that they can seriously "control" all accesses to these gamma islands, I think you need to play a bit more.  I really don't know what this 3rd power block is, unless you are speaking of the "unaffiliated gentiles", but that is a story for another thread.

Although I am chagrined about the teleport system as a whole I neither think the modifications you are suggesting are appropriate nor are they practical as a solution to a power block controlling access to a set, series or even one Gamma island.

Some people play checkers, some play chess...  Once in a while you can find a guy playing GO.  The former is prey, the secondary is a teacher, and the latter is a general.

Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

-1
Want have access to t4 - make t3 first
Want to have access to gamma, access beta first
Want to have access to high-end, go through mid-end first
lol

Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

Inter-Zone TP's.......

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Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

Burial wrote:
Syndic wrote:

Transparent self-serving post. Enough with the developer manipulation.

What are you talking about? How would that serve me when smaller factions move to gamma? Its the opposite of it if you think about it.


Syndic has some deep issues with the DEVs real or other wise imagined... get used to it smile

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

18 (edited by Burial 2012-06-20 13:56:02)

Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

A very serious problem indeed. neutral Perhaps instead of kicking him out, we should find him a doctor?

Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

So how come a blatantly biased feature request thread, and thus not sticking to the seriousness this forum section requirement, is not blocked but my thread about tunnels was?

I have another idea. How about we have boats that can land in an arbitrary point of a gamma coast island and can unload a serious number of bots, say 62. I mean those intra island teleports are such a pain.

Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

BandwagonX9000 wrote:

So how come a blatantly biased feature request thread, and thus not sticking to the seriousness this forum section requirement, is not blocked but my thread about tunnels was?

I have another idea. How about we have boats that can land in an arbitrary point of a gamma coast island and can unload a serious number of bots, say 62. I mean those intra island teleports are such a pain.

Because only CIR members think it is biased? big_smile

Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

Burial wrote:

A very serious problem indeed. neutral Perhaps instead of kicking him out, we should find him a doctor?

Nah, he just forgot to take his pills.

I don't know how you go from feature request -> manipulation; maybe I'm missing something.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

Yeah, only "powerblock" that hasn't invested a single NIC or energy cell into Gamma requesting for smaller easier to defend Beta islands connected to Gamma's with 2 teleports on them...

... for good of the game right? lol

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Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

Well, technically ALL feature requests are dev manipulation, the only thing at issue is the motivation behind the request.

This request simply isn't needed yet, regardless of the motivation.

Gamma requires serious man-power and resources to build and maintain. It's not something a new corp or any single small vetern corp is going to 'experience' without interacting with the rest of the server.

Perp is a highly political game, this is especially true with the low population, no corp (not even CIR) can ignore the politics of the game.

If a (3) way power block ensues, and a small corp wants to set up works on a gamma island, they will have to negotiate access; from one faction, and maybe 2.

The term power-block itself means that these alliances controlling the gamma entries, are powerful. An alternative 'route' is not going to make them any less powerful.

24 (edited by Burial 2012-06-20 18:55:05)

Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

Syndic wrote:

Yeah, only "powerblock" that hasn't invested a single NIC or energy cell into Gamma requesting for smaller easier to defend Beta islands connected to Gamma's with 2 teleports on them...

... for good of the game right? lol

I'll try to explain the idea to you a bit more because you don't get it and writing just one sentence replies won't help you.

First of all, if the developers were to apply such update to the game, it would not give us any other benefits then have more targets in the future and help the game grow besides few power block mentality(it is here, look at the map layout). We are already settled on Hokk and Kent and have been there for a long time, we don't plan to move. I remember reading a post where you wrote that times go on and the players change, don't you really think that it would be beneficial to that vision?

Other thing you mentioned was that I am reality-disconnected. I doubt it. I am just thinking for the future of the game. The fixes people suggest do not get added overnight so when someone suggest something big, you might see it in the next big expansion. I suggest these kinds of things as early as possible so when gamers and developers approve, they can add it to their TODO list as soon as possible.

I hope it answered some of your concerns. If you still want to talk about us trying to manipulate the devs with this idea, then please don't even reply, I will consider it trolling automatically. However, if you want to give some constructive criticism then please go ahead.

25 (edited by Ville 2012-06-20 19:22:35)

Re: Add new route to the middle of gammas

Edited.

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