Topic: Factory and Item production [Request]

First and foremost I like how the new factoy is set up and congrats to the devs on a seemingly smooth expansion.

Seeing how the factory now produces 1 item after another more assembly line style than mass production line. We will use S/D-mobs as my mod in my factory example. I have lvl 5 in the factory runs extention, meaning 50 items at once. I farm Npcs repair my (50)T1 mods. I have a CT for a T2 mod I que it up for (50) to be produced. Here is my first request. Please take the total ammount of Mats from my hanger to complete the job. I also have a T3 and T4 CT installed for these mods. Now comes the big request. If I produce 50 T2 items from T1 why cant my T3 be started while the T2 is working. I can't que up to produce 50 T3s with out having 50 T2s in my hanger.

Tech Progression Mods (T1-T4)should beable to be linked during production I should beable to tell my T1 to start production as soon as the first T1 items hits the hanger I should beable to tell my T2 to start production, and so on untill all 4lines are running untill the last item in my case the 50th T4 D-mob cooks off.

With this I would also like it to take the Materials needed for the entire project minus the item need to tier up and keep it in the factory or allow us to pull from a designated folder.

TL:DR
Factorys are now like assembly lines and as such should allow programing of production in Tiers w/o the total # of lower tier items available but also in production, all 4 tier lines running at once like an assembly line.  Make mats needed for production move to factory not sit in hanger.

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Re: Factory and Item production [Request]

I think the simple solution would be to only check whether you have enough minerals for the first manufacturing cycle, and for the rest it's up to you whether there will be enough materials at the moment the next cycles begin. Maybe a confirmation, like "Not enough minerals for all the cycles, start anyway?". Of course the process will stop if it can't find enough. This would make your example work because the system takes minerals at the start of every cycle, and also delivers the end product of a cycle at the same time.

However this conflicts with your other request to take all the materials at the start, but that's no biggie since we can't do that anyway smile We'd have to simulate CT degradation for every cycle before they are even done, and that would complicate things.

3 (edited by Khader Khan 2012-06-05 11:11:06)

Re: Factory and Item production [Request]

DEV Zoom wrote:

I think the simple solution would be to only check whether you have enough minerals for the first manufacturing cycle, and for the rest it's up to you whether there will be enough materials at the moment the next cycles begin. Maybe a confirmation, like "Not enough minerals for all the cycles, start anyway?". Of course the process will stop if it can't find enough. This would make your example work because the system takes minerals at the start of every cycle, and also delivers the end product of a cycle at the same time.

However this conflicts with your other request to take all the materials at the start, but that's no biggie since we can't do that anyway smile We'd have to simulate CT degradation for every cycle before they are even done, and that would complicate things.

Realized that as I typed it but thought I would give it a chance. But your solution would also work. As it would be up to me to make sure my t2s were producing faster than t3 and so on. Just want to be able to start my T3s and T4s to make it more of an assembly line than waiting for all 50 or just running 20 or 10 items everynight.

Thanks for the response zoom and again overall I'm enjoying the changes.

Edit: Is there a way to turn off the toast for every item produced? It was exciting the first 10 now its starting to become me measuring time between toasts.

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Re: Factory and Item production [Request]

Khader Khan wrote:

Edit: Is there a way to turn off the toast for every item produced? It was exciting the first 10 now its starting to become me measuring time between toasts.

Yes, you can turn off toasts if you click the events button on the bottom right and uncheck them in the settings tab.

Re: Factory and Item production [Request]

DEV Zoom wrote:

I think the simple solution would be to only check whether you have enough minerals for the first manufacturing cycle, and for the rest it's up to you whether there will be enough materials at the moment the next cycles begin. Maybe a confirmation, like "Not enough minerals for all the cycles, start anyway?". Of course the process will stop if it can't find enough. This would make your example work because the system takes minerals at the start of every cycle, and also delivers the end product of a cycle at the same time.

Sounds great!

Re: Factory and Item production [Request]

Sheesh, if you turn off the Toast, then it is just bread!

Re: Factory and Item production [Request]

I've spoken to DEVs in chat about CT degradation (before and after Industry 2.0) and got answers like "its complicated".

Why is it complicated? Even if the formula is fiendish and can't be writ on a 40 foot blackboard for want of space its still a formula and should precisely predict outcomes. From testing I've done in the past and DEVs comments I have to conclude that there is a "random" element to CT degradation.

If this is the case then it should be removed. I don't see what possible balancing would be upset by making CT degradation predictable.

Re: Factory and Item production [Request]

Randomly added value?

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Re: Factory and Item production [Request]

Ludlow Bursar wrote:

I've spoken to DEVs in chat about CT degradation (before and after Industry 2.0) and got answers like "its complicated".

Why is it complicated? Even if the formula is fiendish and can't be writ on a 40 foot blackboard for want of space its still a formula and should precisely predict outcomes. From testing I've done in the past and DEVs comments I have to conclude that there is a "random" element to CT degradation.

If this is the case then it should be removed. I don't see what possible balancing would be upset by making CT degradation predictable.

wow, congratulation of finding out whats common knowledge! I think thats been said to everyone who asks about production in help or on forums...

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Re: Factory and Item production [Request]

Annihilator wrote:

wow, congratulation of finding out whats common knowledge! I think thats been said to everyone who asks about production in help or on forums...

ok, point taken.

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To put the emphasis back on my main point. There is a random element - get rid of it.

11 (edited by Arga 2012-06-05 19:53:19)

Re: Factory and Item production [Request]

DEV Zoom wrote:

I think the simple solution would be to only check whether you have enough minerals for the first manufacturing cycle, and for the rest it's up to you whether there will be enough materials at the moment the next cycles begin. Maybe a confirmation, like "Not enough minerals for all the cycles, start anyway?". Of course the process will stop if it can't find enough. This would make your example work because the system takes minerals at the start of every cycle, and also delivers the end product of a cycle at the same time.

However this conflicts with your other request to take all the materials at the start, but that's no biggie since we can't do that anyway smile We'd have to simulate CT degradation for every cycle before they are even done, and that would complicate things.

The ability to choose which folder it comes out of is really what we need. When you start multiple lines, they all draw from main storage, and if you're off by a little, and those 20 cycles of ammo use up just a little too much, but finish first, then your 4 cycles of Heavymechs will get the popup instead, and you've now lost a nights worth of production.

Edit: Even if this was just sub containers, you would create a couple, and point the hmech production to it's own folder, and smaller runs to a different container. Ideally, you could s choose to run it out of the 'well stocked' central corp folder, but Id settle for self containers if there's an issue with that.

12

Re: Factory and Item production [Request]

To add a bit to the very obvious we need production to be fixed back to a way where it was manageable to run 20 to 30 lines of items. As it stands right now I could pre calculate all components needed to make the items of all the lines I want but the problem is that when I do that my main hanger is going to be stuck …. I say this because if I refine the proceeds will just stack into what I am currently using for my lines and get mixed.

As mentioned I think it will be the best solution if we could have a drop down added to the factory window that allowed us to pick any folder we have access to, it could be as simple as :
Component Location:
Main Hanger
    Mod Production folder
    EwMech Production folder
Corp Hanger   
Lvl 1
        T1 stuff folder
Lvl2
        T2 stuff folder   
I think this issue nees to be addressed soon as it is what I think one of the things that should have been fixed before launch of Gamma as I said then http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … important/

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Re: Factory and Item production [Request]

Tux wrote:

I say this because if I refine the proceeds will just stack into what I am currently using for my lines and get mixed.

This should be the only reason the devs need to change the way folders work for this.

If it's complicated, that's OK, its worth working on.

Re: Factory and Item production [Request]

Or just make a column in factory which gives the needs of all current jobs? Should be easy enough to compare this with your own storage.

Re: Factory and Item production [Request]

mmmmmmm .... toast

16 (edited by Khader Khan 2012-06-06 13:59:30)

Re: Factory and Item production [Request]

Lucius Marcellus wrote:

Or just make a column in factory which gives the needs of all current jobs? Should be easy enough to compare this with your own storage.

+1
Please! this should atleast happen as it seems easy enough to complete. That way Comunistic corps with shared stock piles can just pull what they need easily instead of having 3 folders in my storage that I use while doing a spreadsheet, and god forbid a item completes while im doing my math. ><

I understand that the mat eff. of my CTs will change every time it cycles off another product and I can prepare for that buy adding in some extra mats.

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Re: Factory and Item production [Request]

Khader Khan wrote:
Lucius Marcellus wrote:

Or just make a column in factory which gives the needs of all current jobs? Should be easy enough to compare this with your own storage.

+1
Please! this should atleast happen as it seems easy enough to complete. That way Comunistic corps with shared stock piles can just pull what they need easily instead of having 3 folders in my storage that I use while doing a spreadsheet, and god forbid a item completes while im doing my math. ><

I understand that the mat eff. of my CTs will change every time it cycles off another product and I can prepare for that buy adding in some extra mats.

There's still been no comment on if its a huge technical hurdle to be able to choose the container to pull from. These are good work-around solutions if it's going to be really difficult, but if it's simply been a low priority, folder selection should be expidited.

Re: Factory and Item production [Request]

I had some time to look at this again, and I found that the factory already works like requested: you can input more cycles than what you have minerals for, it only checks whether it has enough materials for the first cycle. It checks for materials at the start of every consecutive cycle and production will be aborted if it can't find enough.

Also we talked about input/output folders and it doesn't seem impossible, but it entails a lot of extra checks involving corporation storage access changes and stuff. We'll see how it works out, it would be definitely nice to have it.

Re: Factory and Item production [Request]

Tks for the feed back.... and I thought one of those hotfixes made my production idea work.... LOL

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20 (edited by Syndic 2012-06-12 15:01:56)

Re: Factory and Item production [Request]

You should definitely do the sensible thing like they have in EVE (trial account is easy to make for this) and have a role for "producers" which allows them to set an Input folder and an Output folder in corporation storage for their production lines.

That way people don't have to derp around with making sure every producing account has enough mats to produce their lines at all times, then drag the finished items to corp storage, more hassle is more hassle, blah blah.

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Re: Factory and Item production [Request]

Syndic wrote:

You should definitely do the sensible thing like they have in EVE (trial account is easy to make for this) and have a role for "producers" which allows them to set an Input folder and an Output folder in corporation storage for their production lines.

That way people don't have to derp around with making sure every producing account has enough mats to produce their lines at all times, then drag the finished items to corp storage, more hassle is more hassle, blah blah.

This would be a lot less work on capitalist corp prodcuers and sounds awesome!

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