Topic: New PvE

Hello.
I started playing around 10 days ago. For the first day I was completing tutorials and missions. Next day joined a corp and the fun started. I did a bit of mining, producing, artifact searching and few other things before I decided to settle on farming spawn points. There was alot I could take on, even on day 2, whatever I couldnt take - I avoided. The fun lasted till the day before yesterday (as yesterday game was down). Logged in today, happy to see the new content (especially on weekend). Got dissapointed. Well usuall spawn points were gone - ok will just need to find new ones. Came across some new (to me) mobs, decided to "check them", was in an assault bot, goin up to check on 2 other assault bots. First 3 seconds of shooting and I knew those were not the mobs for me. Decided to flee... not even a minute later found myself in terminal. OK, I though, I probably wasnt suppose to even get close to these guys. Went for a different group - got close, and all of the sudden they all ran in different directions. Literally far enough to dissapear from my radar - every one of them in different direction in a straight line. Wtf? Found out that navigation extension is gone - Is it to balance PvP at the cost of PvE? Is it becouse the skill is so important that its mandatory? Well then why the need for basic/adv robot control, basic/adv >weapontype< ? MMOs will never be perfectly balanced - some ppl will work for their advantages and they deserve it. You should have make more navigation skills if its so darn important - engine power, mass reduction, acceleration, top speed. Goin that way we would end up with no extensions at all, and 1 bot type - is balance worth it?

Re: New PvE

Mroq wrote:

Hello.
I started playing around 10 days ago. For the first day I was completing tutorials and missions. Next day joined a corp and the fun started. I did a bit of mining, producing, artifact searching and few other things before I decided to settle on farming spawn points. There was alot I could take on, even on day 2, whatever I couldnt take - I avoided. The fun lasted till the day before yesterday (as yesterday game was down). Logged in today, happy to see the new content (especially on weekend). Got dissapointed. Well usuall spawn points were gone - ok will just need to find new ones. Came across some new (to me) mobs, decided to "check them", was in an assault bot, goin up to check on 2 other assault bots. First 3 seconds of shooting and I knew those were not the mobs for me. Decided to flee... not even a minute later found myself in terminal. OK, I though, I probably wasnt suppose to even get close to these guys. Went for a different group - got close, and all of the sudden they all ran in different directions. Literally far enough to dissapear from my radar - every one of them in different direction in a straight line. Wtf? Found out that navigation extension is gone - Is it to balance PvP at the cost of PvE? Is it becouse the skill is so important that its mandatory? Well then why the need for basic/adv robot control, basic/adv >weapontype< ? MMOs will never be perfectly balanced - some ppl will work for their advantages and they deserve it. You should have make more navigation skills if its so darn important - engine power, mass reduction, acceleration, top speed. Goin that way we would end up with no extensions at all, and 1 bot type - is balance worth it?

Yes, it's because it's so important it's mandatory.  They gave the EP back for it for people who had nav 10 (everyone) and increased the base bot speed on most things.  They also changed the alpha highways to make them make more sense.  Yes balance is worth it.  This part of the changes are a net win for everyone.

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<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: New PvE

Win for everyone not playing PvE. I gave you an example why. If all weapon category skills would include 1 skill named "weapon use" it would be mandatory too.
Or the game is focusing strictly on PvP, then tell some newcomer to perpetuum to spend first month of gaming in a mining bot. [sarkasm]The game will definitely flourish then[/sarkasm].

Re: New PvE

man there surely is a spawn that is right for you. you just have to look for it.

Re: New PvE

There might be, there probably - no... surely is. When is the exact time I can move to a stronger, better one? Can I find out? No... I will probably die... But I am not concerned about myself. I have a nice and friendly corp which will probably help me even if I notoriously die trying to explore. But this is me - a noob to perpetuum - but a 15 yrs veteran to MMO. Now imagine a newbie trying to get a grip on the title - dying all the time aint fun. Pretty much all of the MMOs out there focus on getting a newcomers to try out the game and get the excited feeling to subscribe to continue the fun. To get the noobs wanting to play the game is to make more of them reach the subscriber status and therefore adding to the player online amount. This game, this type of game needs more players - the PvPers will be happy (more targets) the devs will be happy (more money ;D ) and even the idlers will be happy (more ppl to chat with waiting for the right amount of ep).
Once again: "there surely is a spawn that is right for you. you just have to look for it." But when I find it - will I be bothered to farm it for months before I get the right extensions? I had my fun running around with mighty arbiters on my behind, shooting em one by one, waiting long minutes to regain hp/acc. Even if it was not an efficient income I considered it fun. You tell me to find some sort of rookie spawn for easy and safe farming - I tell You that I will have more fun watching my ceiling pain pale - I wouldn't have to move my hand to doubleclick on the red crosses.
The path lessened the gap between rookie and seasoned industrialists. But widened the gap between rookie and veteran PvE agents... Not everyone wants to mine, and build and wait - consider it.

Re: New PvE

i can only speak for myself and i havent looked at any alpha island yet.

at first i was shocked how many spawns were gone on the beta isalnd. but after i took a tour around and tried some spawns i have to say that this is quite nice. i would prefer some more usesabe stuff around our outpost but the spawns are good and especially do not differ too much.  a t4 mech spawn is a t4 mech spawn (mech/hmech).

but back to your problem.

how can you see if the spawn is for you?
first bot size. if you are small and new dont go for the big guys. so stay with lights and assault.
second maybe even more imporant: bot tier. we have drones, and then the tier levels starting at t0 goning up to t5. what tier it is can be seen in the bot name.
in this guide is a small section about bot tiers. that will help you.
http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … perpetuum/

but dont bother with the industry guides in there. with the patch they are no longer correct and needed to be reworked.

get yourself a light bot, because he is fast and has good detection range. and start searching most likely circular around your alpha terminal. then you will shurely find something nich soon enough.

Re: New PvE

I know how to find a spawn and differ the type of mobs. At most cases I knew how to deal with most of them, and which required what tactics of me. Since the speed change there are only 2 types of PvE tactics: Attack or Flee.

...the spawns are good and especially do not differ too much. a t4 mech spawn is a t4 mech spawn (mech/hmech).

This is exactly where our opinions differ - You would prefer having a couple of same mechs/hmechs coming at you - no size penalties, shoot em out, get loot, repeat. I take it you can tackle pretty much any mob out there, with a fancy mech/hmech and quite some extensions. This kind of PvE in my opinion is no less boring than mining. Not to mention the enemies must be quite silly:
- He took out 3 heavy mechs, we couldn't outdps him
- Ok lets send 3 ewar mechs at him
- They annoyed the **** out of him but couldn't make a dent
- Oh wells lets try the heavy approach again
In such case the mobs are not even slightly intelligent and it cannot be called fighting but rather harvesting them. I have been called to "farming a spawn" a few times with a sole purpose of disposing them annoying light bots in my assault. If mech spawns are mech spawns now, there is no need for me anymore. I would say that a spawn consisting of say 1-3 dps mechs, 0-2 ewar mechs, 1-4 light mechs with demob at once would be much more interesting and challenging to deal with.
  I take it You are quite bored with PvE already and would just rather the ease and efficiency when doing so. It is understandable. Some of players (esp. new ones) preferred an inefficient tackling with single high tier mob for the sole purpose of fun - vets would not call it fun, they would call it silly. Now, I am forced to sit at a spawn with a tier I can handle and wait for sufficient ep amount to move on to a bigger one, to even try a bigger one.

  I am not a quitter, especially that I know plenty of corp members would let me tag along for better mobs even if my dps is merely ticking them. But know that the path have made newbies life a lot harder, not more interesting or challenging - just plain harder.

8 (edited by Zortarg Calltar 2012-06-03 10:46:40)

Re: New PvE

Mroq wrote:

But know that the path have made newbies life a lot harder, not more interesting or challenging - just plain harder.

this might be true if you say so (havent checked the alpha islands myself).
but greatly improving the pve content is part of the next big planed patch after gamma.
i think this was needed because of the random ore spawns so that pve spawns would not take over most area of the islands.
personaly i think it still could be a bit more spots, but im ok with it. yes it might be a bit more different for new players, but then the devs have to rework something here soon. specially on the alpha1 islands.

9 (edited by Crepitus 2012-06-03 12:35:08)

Re: New PvE

Mroq wrote:

  I take it You are quite bored with PvE already and would just rather the ease and efficiency when doing so. It is understandable. Some of players (esp. new ones) preferred an inefficient tackling with single high tier mob for the sole purpose of fun - vets would not call it fun, they would call it silly. Now, I am forced to sit at a spawn with a tier I can handle and wait for sufficient ep amount to move on to a bigger one, to even try a bigger one.

  I am not a quitter, especially that I know plenty of corp members would let me tag along for better mobs even if my dps is merely ticking them. But know that the path have made newbies life a lot harder, not more interesting or challenging - just plain harder.

Bolded for emphasis.  Welcome to the game.  For the 6 months or so, sitting around waiting for EP is mostly what you do.  Over a year later that's still mostly what's done even with vets well in excess of 600K.

The way the inter-island teleports work now probably hurts newbies the most.  Sure they only have one choice, sure they can drop a beacon if they know where they're going but 50,000 nic is nothing to a vet it's a lot to a newbie.  They're basically trapped with the golden triangle of newb training gone.

I suspect when they re-do the PvE stuff which is supposed to be what's up next with PBS having just come out, they will also do their diminishing returns stuff to combat which will nerf the *** out of combat vets the same way that this patch did to the indy vets.

Synopsis (EDIT): The direction this game has taken from the very beginning is at least 50%+ of the patches make the game harder for no particularly good reason.  Travel times have tripled at least, even with beacons.  This makes everything else take longer by definition.  Bot costs have gone up at least 500%, probably more, requiring far more and far more valuable resources now.

The DEVs have consistently ignored soloists, small groups/corps and focused on BIG mechanics for LOTS of people that don't exist.  The # of kernels required for the PBS stuff exemplifies this.

$.02

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<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: New PvE

Well before mobs gotten a big speed boost I wasn't really sitting there waiting. There were spawns in alpha 1 that were spawning up to t4 light/assault bots and t1 mechs and I was able to manage those on day2, It took forever to kill some, while others required a lot of maneuvering to separate - I was making more income on easier spots, but for fun purposes, that one was neat. Now such spawns are not difficult - they're near impossible when a slight mistake means death as you are not able to outrun them soon enough, if at all.
I know the navigation extension was such a great deal for ep given that it was soon deemed mandatory. Why not extend instead of removing it then?
[+]Nagivation:
- small engine power - to reduce weight penalties to speed
- medium engine power
- top speed - self explanatory
- highway adjustment - to get more speed bonus there
- evasion - the more surface hit size decrease the faster the bot goes
- demob resistance

Re: New PvE

The difference between players and NPC's is you get to chose how to fit your bot.

Your post above includes ways to make yourself faster, and that is why Nav was removed. Speed was so important that there wasn't any real choice in how players needed to spend EP.

Speed is still important.

Not all NPC's fit light-weight-frames, some of them 'tank up' with plates, those that do use LWF's are easier to kill, as LWF's reduce your overall armor points.

Each NPC has a weakness to a certain type of ammo, their resist is lower to that damage type, so you'll do more damage quicker. And in reverse, you're bot will have ahigher resist to certain types of ammo your NPC spawn would be shooting.

Ewar just sucks. It does. It makes spawns alot more difficult. Learning how to counter ewar is part of the game.

Many of the prevous farming techniques depended highly on just 'over-powering' spawns, or being faster and simply kiting them. New patch, new rules.

tl;dr - Find NPC's that are weak to your resist, scout them out with a scanner to see how they are fitted, fit to counter them. Perp is like chess, easy to learn and hard to master.

12 (edited by Crepitus 2012-06-04 19:21:13)

Re: New PvE

Mroq wrote:

Well before mobs gotten a big speed boost I wasn't really sitting there waiting. There were spawns in alpha 1 that were spawning up to t4 light/assault bots and t1 mechs and I was able to manage those on day2, It took forever to kill some, while others required a lot of maneuvering to separate - I was making more income on easier spots, but for fun purposes, that one was neat. Now such spawns are not difficult - they're near impossible when a slight mistake means death as you are not able to outrun them soon enough, if at all.
I know the navigation extension was such a great deal for ep given that it was soon deemed mandatory. Why not extend instead of removing it then?
[+]Nagivation:
- small engine power - to reduce weight penalties to speed
- medium engine power
- top speed - self explanatory
- highway adjustment - to get more speed bonus there
- evasion - the more surface hit size decrease the faster the bot goes
- demob resistance

You can still use demobs to slow them..  You can still fit an navigation nexus which will give you a boost over them but it's insanely expensive (lvl 9 skill difficulty).  What this did by removing the extension was it gave them ALL the equivalent of nav 10, but you can still be faster if you need to be.  I'm not aware of any NPCs that fit nav nexuses etc but I'm not a big PvE guy so maybe there are.

Oh, and I forgot the most classic --> Range.  You don't need to be as fast if you can rain down shots on someone who can't hit you back.

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<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: New PvE

randomness of npcs is now so low, that they are almost like fixed spawns again.

feel happy macro-grinder

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