1 Topic by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2012-05-25 18:16:45)

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Topic: Base mining cycle amounts

Checked all on alpha , will check Epitron and plants tomorrow:

-Figures are units per cycle with 0% mining amonut increase.
- (volume changes)

Titan ore: 1000 (0.000025U)

HDT: 1000 (0.000025U)

Stermonit: 650 (0.000050U)

Immentium: 650 (0.000050U)

Siligium: 650 (0.000050U)

Liquizit: 300 (0.000050U)

Epitron: 300 (0.000050U)

Colixum:100 (0.000050U)

All natural growing plants: 200

Conclusion: Mining buff on next patch, though most fields seems considerably smaller in size and prone to fragmentation. Some volumes have been halved and all have reduced.

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Re: Base mining cycle amounts

Updated*

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3 Reply by Karism (edited by Karism 2012-05-25 17:50:20)

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Re: Base mining cycle amounts

Noralgis

[Test Server] 100 (0.00005U per bit)

[Live Server] 150 (0.0005U per bit)

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Re: Base mining cycle amounts

Celebro wrote:

Checked all on alpha , will check Epitron and plants tomorrow:

-Figures are units per cycle with 0% mining amonut increase.
- (volume changes)

Titan ore: 1000 (0.000025U)

HDT: 1000 (0.000025U)

Stermonit: 650 (0.000050U)

Immentium: 650 (0.000050U)

Siligium: 650 (0.000050U)

Liquizit: 300 (0.000050U)

Epitron: 300 (0.000050U)

Colixum: ?? Soon (maybe)

All natural growing plants: 200

Conclusion: Mining buff on next patch, though most fields seems considerably smaller in size and prone to fragmentation. Some volumes have been halved and all have reduced.

alpha ore has been boosted  again?
Last time I checked it on test server, it was

titan/hdt 750 (same as live)
imentium/stermonit 500 (boosted from 300/450)
liquizit 250 (same as live)
all plants around 200 (nerfed quite to half and more)

whats the sence of that changes? different commodities redistribution?

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Re: Base mining cycle amounts

Yakapao its seems balanced to boost mining:

Bots will require more materials to build.

Random ore spawn leads to fragmentation, hence more time scanning moving.

*Colixum updated

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6 Reply by Yakapao Doherato (edited by Yakapao Doherato 2012-05-25 23:27:40)

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Re: Base mining cycle amounts

Celebro wrote:

Yakapao its seems balanced to boost mining:

Bots will require more materials to build.

Random ore spawn leads to fragmentation, hence more time scanning moving.

*Colixum updated


we will see...

the only thing I still cant get - plants yield has been nerfed quite a bit, but why do they still have max 50 cycles (on alpha)? given that there arent much places where you can harvest 5 fully grown plants at once (symbiont mk2) for a reasonable amount of time, thers almost no point in spending much EP in the harvesting cycle reduction, since you are more moving around, searching and locking/switching, than actually harvesting. Why not convert Plants from cycles to actual amount of units per plant (like the ore) and boost the amount at least to double of current?

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Re: Base mining cycle amounts

An important distinction to make here, is the concept of 'yeild' no longer applies to resource gathering.

The change from 750 to 1000 units per cycle, using titan as an example, does not yield more ore per tile. The amount of ore per tile is fixed, the 250 unit increase simply speeds up the recovery of the ore; this same principal applies to the bot bonus, tuners, and extensive extensions.

If a tile has 385,000 units of ore, that is the maximum amount that tile can yeild. If that was titan, with no bonuses, it would take 385 cycles @ 1000 units per cycle to mine the tile empty.

If your robot has 200% yeild, then you'll mine 3000 units per cycle, and empty the tile in 129 (rounded up) cycles.

With no bonus and 10s cycle times, 385 cycles / 5 modules = 770 s.

With bonus and 10s cycle times, 129 cycles / 5 modules = 258 s.

But, since you really can't get 200% yields without also getting faster cycle times, typically around 5 s at that % range, a Riv MK II can empty a 385,000 unit tile in a little over 2 mins.

(Maxed out, 234% @ 4s would be about a 1.5 min)

Without the reduction in vlume, 385,000 units of titan would have been 19.25U, but as C has said, it's been reduced in half, so it's only 9.63 (ish).

tl;dr - Mining is about time now, not yeild.

8 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2012-05-26 02:45:22)

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Re: Base mining cycle amounts

Yes Arga, on a  max out riv mk2, might be worth using a sensor boosters or RSA alt.

The 1.5min per tile example is a hard pill to swallow though.

What the Devs have done is actually make mining much less of an afk venture, and made it a more active process.

Not sure if this is good or bad, but I know higher lvl miners will get the short end of the stick. At least a miner module range bonus can really counter these effects at least.

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Re: Base mining cycle amounts

As one of the highest ep miners in the game, I actually like the change to more active participation in mining. I moved over to harvesting for a long while as it actually required me paying attention rather than sticking a straw in the ground and watching a movie/tv.

Not sure what effect this may have in the long term as I don't really mine on the test server, hence can't say if it becomes annoying or not after extended periods.

Most of this is hard to take in context as there are just so many factors changing from the weight of the minerals, to the yields, to the definitive amounts per tile, to the refining changes to the manufacturing costs to the freaking point system implementation.

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10 Reply by Yakapao Doherato (edited by Yakapao Doherato 2012-05-26 09:48:32)

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Re: Base mining cycle amounts

Arga wrote:

An important distinction to make here, is the concept of 'yeild' no longer applies to resource gathering.

The change from 750 to 1000 units per cycle, using titan as an example, does not yield more ore per tile. The amount of ore per tile is fixed, the 250 unit increase simply speeds up the recovery of the ore; this same principal applies to the bot bonus, tuners, and extensive extensions.

If a tile has 385,000 units of ore, that is the maximum amount that tile can yeild. If that was titan, with no bonuses, it would take 385 cycles @ 1000 units per cycle to mine the tile empty.

If your robot has 200% yeild, then you'll mine 3000 units per cycle, and empty the tile in 129 (rounded up) cycles.

With no bonus and 10s cycle times, 385 cycles / 5 modules = 770 s.

With bonus and 10s cycle times, 129 cycles / 5 modules = 258 s.

But, since you really can't get 200% yields without also getting faster cycle times, typically around 5 s at that % range, a Riv MK II can empty a 385,000 unit tile in a little over 2 mins.

(Maxed out, 234% @ 4s would be about a 1.5 min)

Without the reduction in vlume, 385,000 units of titan would have been 19.25U, but as C has said, it's been reduced in half, so it's only 9.63 (ish).

tl;dr - Mining is about time now, not yeild.


thats somewhat self explaining. the problem will most likely be that after some time passes, and the fields will get more and more fragmented, your red tile example will be utopia, at least on alphas. You either will need to scan alot, finding a field with some red tiles to at least have something to mine for an hour or two, or you will have to dance on your keyboard switching every couple of seconds. Now that all is bearable when you mine on only one account, but when you got 2 and more....(skilled I mean). Thats where skilling the last bit up to lvls 8-10 where the amount of EP starts being insane due to the sheer number of skills, doesnt make any sense. Neither mining sparks, if you ask me.

Thats where I say, a defragmentation tool needs to be set up, that wipes any ore fields when they get fragmented to a certain extent.

Still, the plant question is unanswered...

11 Reply by Lahha (edited by Lahha 2012-05-31 23:42:19)

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Re: Base mining cycle amounts

Arga wrote:

tl;dr - Mining is about time now, not yeild.

I don't really get this. Was it not that before? I've never conserned myself how much ore I can get out of a single field but how long it takes me to mine the amount of ore I need or how much NIC/h I am making. If 1 field was not able to fill my need I'd just move to another field.

Increasing yield % and lowering cycle time both directly reduce the time it takes mine X amount of ore or in other words increases NIC/h.

I haven't tested mining at all so I don't know how much overhead the new scanning system creates or how big the fields actually are.

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Re: Base mining cycle amounts

Lahha wrote:
Arga wrote:

tl;dr - Mining is about time now, not yeild.

I don't really get this. Was it not that before? I've never conserned myself how much ore I can get out of a single field but how long it takes me to mine the amount of ore I need or how much NIC/h I am making. If 1 field was not able to fill my need I'd just move to another field.

Increasing yield % and lowering cycle time both directly reduce the time it takes mine X amount of ore or in other words increases NIC/h.

I haven't tested mining at all so I don't know how much overhead the new scanning system creates or how big the fields actually are.

Yes and no.

Of course, the higher your yield was before, the more ore you would get in a fixed amount of time. But the amount of ore you could get per TILE was highly dependant on your yeild; that is 255 cycle tiles would give you 200% more ore if you had 200% yeild bonus. This became a factor if like on Tellesis, you were chasing down small Sterminite fields, you could get 2x the amount of ore out of the same field as someone with only 100% yeild.

In the new system, each tile has a fixed amount. So each field will yeild X amount of material, regardless of your yeild bonus. It just means that now you'll empty the tile out faster then someone with less yeild.

Its basically a nerf for high end miners, and a buff for lower end, since each tile now holds relatively less or than 255 cycles at 200+%.

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Re: Base mining cycle amounts

mining a yellow result block (~250k Titanium ore) didn't take very long with a Riv MK2 and only 3 T4 tuners and t3 med miner.

so its getting close to the triandlus harvesting experience...

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Re: Base mining cycle amounts

This is a good change.

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