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Just noticed, there's a lot of discussion on turrets, but no thread for it.
There are (4) parts to the turret subsytem;
Turret foundation
Boosters
Power (Acc)
Control
The question about turrets boils down to balance.
How hard should it be to disable/kill, in relation to its offensive capability and the cost to create and suppor the turret?
due to the unavoidable tier-imbalance of T1 turrets have to face T4 fit long range weapons right from the start, its a hard question.
- Boosters are missing range extender effect,
- Control is missing...
due to the unavoidable tier-imbalance of T1 turrets have to face T4 fit long range weapons right from the start, its a hard question.
We need to remember that these turrets don't exist in a vaccuum.
Colony players could easily have a login trap set outside of their base, so when a few T4 range fit bots show up thinking they'll just have some target practice, they get 2 mesmer MK II's popping in at their feet.
If its a large attacking fleet, they'll have ECM and Ewar to help with turrets, and they'll be expecting a defensive response, even if one doesn't materialize.
Having an upgrade path to hi-tech turrerts with better range is certainly needed, but the standard turret should be defeatable (either avoided, neutralize, or destroyed) by a skilled T4 pilot, if the turret has NO human support.
Agreed Arga. Then the question becomes "How long should it take to kill a turret not being defended by a human". Well, a standard turret didn't last 7 volleys from my range fit gropho. With my current extensions, 8-9 volleys would take it down. With boosters, probably more.
I tried one with two boosters and 1 repper on it and it did not help it much.
Are standard turrets meant to be this "disposable"?
standard turrets only have 3 "slots" - at least one you need to use as power connection. leaves 2 "fitting slots" for enhancement.
Cycletime Boost
makes the turrets have some nice DPS, but not enough range and sensor strength to not be disabled by an average ewar pilot.
Sensor Boost
makes it hard to ewar the turrets, but their combat range is not increased by their enhanced locking range
Resist Boost
due to % boost, kinda weak on standard turrets.
Repair Tower
30s cycletime. without resist boost useless. Lemon killed my turrets in 2 volleys
btw, my only two "human" interaction options are:
- setting relation at which the Turrets will shoot
- deactivating each turret individually
with the relative weak auto-defense they give - they are not much of a support....
All turrets need more range than they currently have, 4/500m makes them too vunerable to anything with more range, increasing base from standard to hitec, as well as maybe a optimal range buff from boosters as well would be a good start.
Also, even standard turrets should be somewhat tough, comparable to a plated mech/heavy at least.
Are standard turrets meant to be this "disposable"?
Sadly it is quite disposable, too bad. According to Arga/Lemon, it seems we all need a degree in 'gamma warfare' before we can even start thinking of setting up a colony.
Sundial wrote:Are standard turrets meant to be this "disposable"?
Sadly it is quite disposable, too bad. According to Arga/Lemon, it seems we all need a degree in 'gamma warfare' before we can even start thinking of setting up a colony.
TLDR:
I think standard turrets need to be brought in line with other turrets and agree with Karism about the ranges.
There is a reason that T4 items are not 4 times better than T1. Its called diminishing returns
Long Version:
In EVE I have been playing only 3 months and I am going to go setup a small POS in WH space with my 2 account corp. I have the luxury of knowing that unless I really piss someone off or someone wants my space really bad (Its a C1, so I doubt that), no one is going to blow up my POS "for the lulz" which seems like it will be common with current values of things in perpetuum.
Yes apples and oranges, but I still think with current population we need to encourage groups of players to grow into the territory starting small. The game isn't going to get 1000+ players overnight when gamma releases unless Goonswarm decides to start playing 
. We need to have the low end turrets brought in line with the high end. What if T1 modules were only 10% as efficient as T4? Because thats essentially how turrets are balanced. Diminishing returns, where are they?
All turrets need more range than they currently have, 4/500m makes them too vunerable to anything with more range, increasing base from standard to hitec, as well as maybe a optimal range buff from boosters as well would be a good start.
Also, even standard turrets should be somewhat tough, comparable to a plated mech/heavy at least.
Because turrets are stationary, the terrain advantage is entirely dependant on the player that deploys them.
Unlike NPC's or even PC's, you can't trick, force, or trap a turret into moving to unfavorable ground.
If the area is terraformed to prevent PC's from getting LOS/missle lock at under 400m, long range sniper fits are useless.
If the attacking party has time to terraform to defeat placement, well the turret has acheived part of it's objective atleast, which is to delay the advance.
If there's no one home to take advantage of that delay, then it wouldn't matter if it took 5 mins to kill a turret offensively, or 5 mins to TF around it.
Then it becomes a tank/dps issue. Should 1 Turret be able to break a T4 Hmech tank? How about a Troijer mk ii tank? Or an injector fit Ictus?
Terrain wise, it could be possible to make it so multiple turrets can cover the same area.
If that's the case, now if its OK to tank 1 dps, should they be able to tank 2, 3, 5 ?
Sensor boost INCREASE the turrets' weapon range, from the start.
10/12.5/15 % for level 1/2/3 effect. They are stackable.
Annihilator wrote:due to the unavoidable tier-imbalance of T1 turrets have to face T4 fit long range weapons right from the start, its a hard question.
We need to remember that these turrets don't exist in a vaccuum.
Colony players could easily have a login trap set outside of their base, so when a few T4 range fit bots show up thinking they'll just have some target practice, they get 2 mesmer MK II's popping in at their feet.
If its a large attacking fleet, they'll have ECM and Ewar to help with turrets, and they'll be expecting a defensive response, even if one doesn't materialize.
Having an upgrade path to hi-tech turrerts with better range is certainly needed, but the standard turret should be defeatable (either avoided, neutralize, or destroyed) by a skilled T4 pilot, if the turret has NO human support.
I don't know if this already exists, but I'd like to see something along the lines of a Natural Selection top down commander view crossed with Teamfortress 2's direct turret control by the engineer. Then you could have the unmanned turrets be crappy but be much more effective when actually manually controlled by a potentially outgunned defender who would just have to be given access like a probe.
I don't know if this already exists, but I'd like to see something along the lines of a Natural Selection top down commander view crossed with Teamfortress 2's direct turret control by the engineer. Then you could have the unmanned turrets be crappy but be much more effective when actually manually controlled by a potentially outgunned defender who would just have to be given access like a probe.
That would be awesome 
We also suggested a while ago, about having a 'turret bunker', that a player docks into. The bunker has good defenses, and the turret itself only uses its own bonuses, not those of the player. You'd probably have to put a limitation that it couldn't be manned by trial accounts, but other than that, it would give new players to the corp something to do in a battle; by manning a cannon with med skills, but requiring a player in it to lock and fire.
Also, with the increase in the HP's of buildings, it looks like the devs are going for a bigger split between buildings that are meant to be disposable and those that are more resilent.
Bascially, turrets, power and control nodes are meant to buy time to get a force together to protect the 'Big' buildings, but even if you can't muster that force, they'll go into lock down.
This sort of moves the question of turrets more into a "Performance per NIC" PvN discussion, and less about making the turrets able to 1-shot players.
And, as Lemon points out, battle is about time, so the PvN can also be seen as, how much time can I buy with each turret.
Players now will throw away 1-3m NIC on probes without hesitation, so if turrets were priced around 2m NIC would that be considered cheap and disposable?
POS gunner lvl 10 in that other game made a huge difference in what I could defend against.
The only real problem i see with turrets is that the way people have deployed them is really bad.
Turrets should not be out in the middle of an open field open to attack ..
If your smart you will position turrets so the attacker must be with in locking range of them in order to shoot them.
You will also boost their resists so they will love longer.
TF to make your turrets useful or else no matter how they change them they will be garbage
Sure they could use some balance in relation to standard advanced and high tech but i think they are pretty solid as is if used correctly.
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