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Hurray for making terraforming useless \o/
So whats the point of using hours of play time on terraforming when ppl will just run around destroying what u did?
i personaly will hunt any gamma island and destroy any terraforming done if this rule comes into play.
Hurray for making terraforming useless \o/
So whats the point of using hours of play time on terraforming when ppl will just run around destroying what u did?
i personaly will hunt any gamma island and destroy any terraforming done if this rule comes into play.
Well, does this really make it useless? If you are busy tearing it down, could that be part of the point or defenders plan too?
Terraform up to even height and fire at them from above there wall
but as with walls there is walling for pvp and against it just as terraforming for pvp and against it.
Grond wrote:Hurray for making terraforming useless \o/
So whats the point of using hours of play time on terraforming when ppl will just run around destroying what u did?
i personaly will hunt any gamma island and destroy any terraforming done if this rule comes into play.
Well, does this really make it useless? If you are busy tearing it down, could that be part of the point or defenders plan too?
Sounds like a great plan, lets waste some time to terraform, so our enemy have somthing to keep him occupied
terraforming should be completely un restricted
I can understand the 1000M away from Teleports but other than that every tile on the islant should be able to be terraformed to the residents desire.
forget about the attackers, its their job to figure out how to kill you
they should not be given a spoon and told how to kill you
The purpose for terraforming is to allow players to put down PBS units, I think everyone was getting all excited about the defensive possiblities of being able to adjust the terrain, but the bottom line is that TF may very well become a tertiary defensive strategy; or simply a way to enhance turret placement.
Terraforming is expensive and takes a long time, as it should as a first step to populating the new islands.
Its simple. A corp or alliance should be able to defend it's terminal with players. Adding in turrets, landscape tricks, and walls are things that reduce the monotony of player defense, not a substitution for it.
cool then the attakers can just terraform their way into ur settlement, making turrets obsolete and if they have a big enough blob, they will just destroy all ur stuff and u can so nothing about it.
i just hope they never closes the test server cause its more fun playing there than the acctual server with rules like this
Not sure, but it feels like from some comments, corps with 2-3 active players actually felt they would be able to use gamma?
lol make ur base and i with my guys will destroy it, cause with everybody able to terraform into ur base, its no point in trying to defend it
lol make ur base and i with my guys will destroy it, cause with everybody able to terraform into ur base, its no point in trying to defend it
That's the spirit!!!
lol make ur base and i with my guys will destroy it, cause with everybody able to terraform into ur base, its no point in trying to defend it
lol, if TF was the only thing meant to protect a PBS then there is a problem....
Grond wrote:lol make ur base and i with my guys will destroy it, cause with everybody able to terraform into ur base, its no point in trying to defend it
lol, if TF was the only thing meant to protect a PBS then there is a problem....
Exactly.
But, Actually there's a brillent idea. Just leave the test server running for players that just want to build on gamma without any PVP, with a paid subscription.
just imagine digging a deep trench into the enemy base, whats the point of turrets when they cant hit u?
im just telling u that no corp currently in game can build anything on gamma if this happends, should we balace a game around that we one day may have more than 100 ppl actually playing the game?
at this rate there wont be any more game to bring ppl into
who got the advantage the defender or the attacker if everybody can terraform everything?
and let me know why u mean that
Ok, I like to let this video about walls made from terraforming and the effect of smooth charges, I think with smooth charge is easy to pull down the wall.
The video http://youtu.be/j_NGDseYTCo
@Grond
This is why we need to bring these types of problems up now while the stuff is not live and only on the test server. 
I think, the terraforming is slow, so it sould speed up, and you can't create unpassable terrain, that could be a solution.
Terraforming module's accu consuption is the same, not reduced!
im thinking a that if u want to terraform within 1000m of a pbs thats not ur own ud need to deploy some kind of beacon, that makes u able to terraform in like a 200m radius and it takes 10min to deploy. and the turrets and players should be able to shoot them.
this way its just not easy for a enemy to terraform around ur base but its still possible.
About beacon terraforming - would be nice if i could send my plans to another corpmember, just like a waypoint or geoscan.
We removed the 1000m restriction. Thanks for pointing out the "i wall my structures and no counter for that" problem.
1. get on 600m close to turret
2. terraform a wall at 100m towards turret
3. get right under that wall - it covers you from a turret fire
4. continute steps 2-3 until you're 100m close to turret
5. terraform a wall around it.
6. ????
7. PROFIT!!!!
remove turrets from the game, they're obsolete now.
1. get on 600m close to turret
2. terraform a wall at 100m towards turret
3. get right under that wall - it covers you from a turret fire
4. continute steps 2-3 until you're 100m close to turret
5. terraform a wall around it.
6. ????
7. PROFIT!!!!remove turrets from the game, they're obsolete now.
+1
The way I see it: barricading yourself away from the world will take exactly as much effort as tearing down those walls. And if you do it, you'll make it quite hard for yourself to get in new resources.
My hunch is that yes, there may be some cases where people close down teleports with terraforming, and in turn others will dig a hole in the wall, but this back and forth digging will eventually become a simple nuisance requiring too much effort on both sides, and they will just stop doing it.
did u guys even think on another solution befor deciding this?
1. get on 600m close to turret
2. terraform a wall at 100m towards turret
3. get right under that wall - it covers you from a turret fire
4. continute steps 2-3 until you're 100m close to turret
5. terraform a wall around it.
6. ????
7. PROFIT!!!!remove turrets from the game, they're obsolete now.
So, if turrets are defeatable, then they are useless?
I don't think that's what you mean to say, but that's what you said.
A correct assesment is if turrets are EASILY defeated, then they are worthless.
And while TF around them would defeat them, there are easier ways, such as simply tanking them with a battle lithus.
Since there are easier ways to defeat a turret, other then TF, saying turrets are useless because of terraforming is illogical.
TF is simply another way to defeat turrets.
Thing is, that while terraforming turrets out you don't even risk a little. Big attacking groups will have a terraformer guy with them for sure, so as a result, turrets will be mostly a scarecrow for a small gank parties. With their construction cost and energy usage and stuff thats a little expensive.
But ok, there is other exploit example:
1. Terraform a wall right around main building on such distance, where ppl are can still undock but already can't dock back
2. ?????
3. 
There is a few ideas that can help somehow:
- LoS for terraforming
- special explosives that can blow up terrains
- common weapons when hit a terrain, "damage" it a little causing terraforming effects (may be useful for creating caves but seems incompatible with current engine)
- terrain type separation (rock, ground, etc) with different terraforming properties and possibilities
- jumpjets of flying robots
- artillery
IS - Outposts need to have live people defending them.
If we disagree on that basic principle then we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Just because a corp isn't big enough to have people on 24/7, doesn't mean that requirement should be dismissed.
Turrets are a deterrent. They are there so if you have 3 live players online, and a group of 10 bots shows up, you can acutally mount a fairly good defense (lets not digress too far into how/what would be usefull for defense). You may lose some structures and need to zerg a little, but distances are very large, so you'll have a huge advantage.
If an attacker shows up with 30 bots, then they should be able to defeat the automatted defenses, and maybe those 3 players can delay them long enough for help to come, or atleast make them be more careful as they roll over the post. This is where the 'lock-down' timer comes in, so even in these off times you won't totally lose your base.
But, if you have no one online to counter a group of 3 raiders, they should be able to mess with your unattended goodies. But it takes a long time to TF, and its boring. It's also not possible to TF within 50-75m of structures, so if turrets are built in and among your factories, they can't by pass them with TF and will have to neturalize them. Note also, that PBS just got a 2.5 x boost to HP, meaning 2 dps bots and a TF bot are going to spend a lot of time shooting stuff - and if you have rep modules going, they could easily run out of ammo.
tldr- The trade of of being invulnerable with TF @ 1000m to making players spend time and effort to bypass turrets is acceptable.
Note: From a defensive prospective, I would much rather force the attackers to use a TF bot then to simply be able to blow through terrain.
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