Topic: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

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Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

Can I sell Game Time Codes that I purchased and have not used from the AC store and sell them for in game NIC?

Status:Resolved

Responses
GM Synapse - 2012-04-08 17:09:34
Greetings Ville!

As our EULA says it is strictly forbidden to do it.
Quoting from the EULA:
" It is forbidden to share account details with anyone, trade or sell Perpetuum accounts, in-game items, characters, money, etc in any way outside the game. In this case both the seller's and the buyer's characters and accounts may be terminated by AC.
"

Thank you for asking us first!

Sincererly,
GM Synapse

The ticket status has been changed to: Resolved

You may now archive this ticket or reopen it if you still have problems.

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3 (edited by Gremrod 2012-04-09 00:07:53)

Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

That part of the EULA appears to have a problem or loop hole.

The transaction has two parts.

There is only one part that involves out of game actions. Which, in this case is a player GIVING another player a time code.

This has happen plenty already....? Did they trade it for in game NIC, I have no idea. Can you tell if a time code was traded for NIC?

  • No trade is being done out side or in game. Each end looks like someone got something for NOTHING.

So in essence nothing is being traded out of game. It really is being given.

So, I am sure if I got with a lawyer (LOL) we could argue this point and win maybe....


But if this is a trade. Aren't we just trading a game item for another game item?

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

TBH i dont see why they have a problem with people trading GTC for nic. They should just state that it is at your own risk. until they make a proper trading system.

5 (edited by Arjha Shanoo 2012-04-09 09:21:38)

Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

darth sidi0us wrote:

They should just state that it is at your own risk. until they make a proper trading system.

Its stated in the EULA that evry questionable use of the companies products as far as not being mentioned as an infringement there is at own risk wth no devsupport and may have severe aftermaths if it causes damage.

Back to the topic itself, at first while reading the EULA it may seem like a loophole - but it is stated several times there that any use of ingame things (whether its modules, NIC, anything else) for things outside the game is prohibited.

EULA / GM Synapse wrote:

...in-game items, characters, money, etc in any way outside the game.

That is a clear statement that trading GTCs (bought by real money outside the game) with ingame currency is an infringement to the EULA and both parties can lose their accounts for it. The main problem stays as Gremrod said how to find out whether it was just a gift or whether it was traded...

Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

Once you pay your money you are purchasing an ingame item - game time and therefore that rule does not apply. Your swapping ingame time for ingame currency. If you were swapping ingame currency for the money that would be different but as soon as your money goes to avatar then it becomes an ingame item.

It also states that you cannot do it in any way outside the game. Using ingame forums is in no way outside the game.

Under present rules it is perfectly within the EULA. If they dont want to do it then fine but they need to amend the EULA.

Given this games sketchy moderation (can anyone say 'insurance') with one hand not knowing what the other is doing it would be good to have a DEV response on this that gives us a place to start the discussion from.

Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

After monthes/weeks of discussion with no respone, I am going to assume this is a sensitive subject and the devs secretly support this but fear mass community back lash if its implemented wrong.  BTW I intend on cutting that 300 million nic into a third.:D

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8 (edited by Sundial 2012-04-09 17:27:59)

Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

Ville wrote:

After monthes/weeks of discussion with no respone, I am going to assume this is a sensitive subject and the devs secretly support this but fear mass community back lash if its implemented wrong.  BTW I intend on cutting that 300 million nic into a third.:D

This is the idea I am getting as well.

I hope the devs allow this to continue and eventually add an ingame item that can be used to get gametime when there is enough public support.

I think a Plex system will also have a side effect of increasing the attractiveness of non communist corps with corp markets, because in these type of corps players will be able to pay their subs (just like in EVE) but in a communist one only the people at the top will play for free.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

Hmmm..  Maybe see a return in small communistic industrial corps and the corp pays their  members with timecodes for mineral quotas.

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Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

Sundial wrote:
Ville wrote:

After monthes/weeks of discussion with no respone, I am going to assume this is a sensitive subject and the devs secretly support this but fear mass community back lash if its implemented wrong.  BTW I intend on cutting that 300 million nic into a third.:D

This is the idea I am getting as well.

I hope the devs allow this to continue and eventually add an ingame item that can be used to get gametime when there is enough public support.

I think a Plex system will also have a side effect of increasing the attractiveness of non communist corps with corp markets, because in these type of corps players will be able to pay their subs (just like in EVE) but in a communist one only the people at the top will play for free.

Nothing wrong with a communist corp getting timecodes for its members

Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

It is a quite big problem. You can use several game mechanics to make NIC out of onlinetime (in a way that is not exactly intended by the Devs I assume, e.g Trial Mining Sequer). As soon as Playtime is buyable for NIC you will see China farmers back here, and that will in no way help the game development, but reduce fun of those who mine there ore with mining bots.

Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

You have to balance that against the people who would play the game but cant because of the price.

Thats why its important to set the bar high for cost - your not going to make a hundred million afk mining in a squeeler even in a month.

Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

Sequer afk mining 24h/7? As much as a serverfarm can host as Trialaccount fits? Seems to me to get enough ore to screw up market complete.
While normal miner will have a lot trouble getting these resources as all spots are farmed 24/7. No thanks

Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

Goffer wrote:

Sequer afk mining 24h/7? As much as a serverfarm can host as Trialaccount fits? Seems to me to get enough ore to screw up market complete.
While normal miner will have a lot trouble getting these resources as all spots are farmed 24/7. No thanks

Correct, and sequer afk farming 24/7 is not the only way. Early on when game started I saw a group of 5 termises in npc corps mining which got reported and sorted.

Selling gamecodes for nic with 'Dev support' can only spell potential for loads of trouble .If they want to turn a blind eye with this thread's discussion and gamecode selling this way that's fine by me anyways.

RIP PERPETUUM

15 (edited by Sundial 2012-04-09 19:31:03)

Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

Goffer wrote:

Sequer afk mining 24h/7? As much as a serverfarm can host as Trialaccount fits? Seems to me to get enough ore to screw up market complete.
While normal miner will have a lot trouble getting these resources as all spots are farmed 24/7. No thanks

Chinafarmers can be dealt with, they actually stopped ignoring the problem recently in that other game causing mineral prices to shoot way up.

Solution for this problem is to not allow trial accounts to get in sequers and add a new class of light logistics bot that is not optimal for the task.

Then you could still have a bunch of trial accounts mining liquizit/hdt with arganos using drag macros and a paid account hauling. Players could report this and GMs could ban them like they have before in the history of this game.

Goffer, when the game gets bigger chinafarmers will sell NIC this way anyway with or without a plex system. A Plex system puts alot of this back into the hands of the players.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

It has been shown in other games that if you provide the players with the opportunity to buy using ingame methods authorized by the game then it drives down RMT not up.

yourarguementisinvalid.jpg

Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

I think it has been proven in other games that pay4win is not good for the game and the player base.
And trading real money vs NIC is pay for win. Not much difference to a shop where you can buy full fitted T4 HM for 20 Euro per piece

18 (edited by Sundial 2012-04-09 21:23:04)

Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

Goffer wrote:

I think it has been proven in other games that pay4win is not good for the game and the player base.
And trading real money vs NIC is pay for win. Not much difference to a shop where you can buy full fitted T4 HM for 20 Euro per piece

Plex allows for more play styles in game... more play styles means more potential players. What we need now more than anything else is new players / old ones to come back. Plex stimulates both of these groups of people:

A. Allowing people who have less time to play the game the ability to compete/play with players who put in 16 hours a day with 5+ accounts.
B. Giving those veteran players who play a ton who play a ton a recurring goal and a reason to continue playing
C. Allowing newbs to actually play the game / have some fun instead of just spending 99% of his time grinding, giving him freedom to play / experience the game without worrying to much about every loss.
D. By extension of A, B and C more nic flows into the market purchasing goods, stimulating the economy and activity in game
E. Mitigating money from players going to RMT/Chinafarmer companies and instead going to the developers

Lets face it most of the complaints about Plex come from super hardcore players who want a large advantage over everyone due to their time invested with many accounts (which is arguably pay2win) or RMTers who don't want their cash flow disrupted.

How come no one is up in arms about the pay2win nature of multiple mining/farming/PvP accounts? Smells like a double standard to me.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

BankOfEngland wrote:

It has been shown in other games that if you provide the players with the opportunity to buy using ingame methods authorized by the game then it drives down RMT not up.

yourarguementisinvalid.jpg

Goffer wrote:

I think it has been proven in other games that pay4win is not good for the game and the player base.
And trading real money vs NIC is pay for win. Not much difference to a shop where you can buy full fitted T4 HM for 20 Euro per piece

It would be great if either of you could give examples of these other games and provide some figures to prove your point.

Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

Shaedys wrote:
BankOfEngland wrote:

It has been shown in other games that if you provide the players with the opportunity to buy using ingame methods authorized by the game then it drives down RMT not up.

yourarguementisinvalid.jpg

Goffer wrote:

I think it has been proven in other games that pay4win is not good for the game and the player base.
And trading real money vs NIC is pay for win. Not much difference to a shop where you can buy full fitted T4 HM for 20 Euro per piece

It would be great if either of you could give examples of these other games and provide some figures to prove your point.

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog. … mp;bid=684

just one example and the most transferable

Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

Instead of making your beginner experience depend on how much real money you spend, they should just fix it with making the game more exiting there.

perhaps we can continue then advertising the game with "cheap montly fee" -> right now its a very expensive game to play, and this discussion here just resolves around the ablity to buy subscription for the countless NIC you can grind at the higher levels with ease.

someone told me he can grind 100M NIC worth plasma per hour -> so with 3 accounts grinding 9 hours per month would be enough for him to play the game for free...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

Annihilator wrote:

Instead of making your beginner experience depend on how much real money you spend, they should just fix it with making the game more exiting there.

Time-code trading will also (very likely) increase subscriptions, hence more DEV time to improve just that!

Annihilator wrote:

Someone told me he can grind 100M NIC worth plasma per hour -> so with 3 accounts grinding 9 hours per month would be enough for him to play the game for free...

That sounds far, far too high, I'd say proof or it didn't happen. In the extremely unlikely case that this is not outright false/very exaggerated, this will push up time coded prices to well beyond 1bn quickly.

Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

Your new player experience would not depend on it just as it does not now Annihilator...

It would however give new players an option that they do not currently have which has alot of other positive side effects.

No one (not even the current game mechanics) is forcing new players to buy GTCs at gunpoint...

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

Wow, RMT is allowed now. This is a road of no return.

Re: WTS: 30 day timecode 350 million

Now with the Perp/eve comparison:  someone can tell me what was the number of active players when plex were introduced in Eve?  Certainly not around 100....  That kind of game mechanics must be supported by a good amount of players imo so no one feels too much the inequity between the irl "rich" and "poors"...

Introducing that would have a negative effect on the long term.  Peoples that simply think plex= more players... need to think more. And really, if that happens, and i have to play surrounded by chinese (or whatever nationality btw) farmers and full of bots...  farewell then.