Topic: Industry 2.0

Can we get more details please? Industry is pretty general word.

Does this mean mining changes too or just facilities and research?

I was also wondering why fix what's not broken?

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Industry 2.0

If i got it right, it rolls out with gammas? Now is time to panic!

Re: Industry 2.0

In the next blog I will tell you the tale of how we turned the industry upside down, to the extent that we probably should call it Industry 2.0.

all these impatient people... i guess you have to wait till the next blog...

Re: Industry 2.0

Zortarg II wrote:

In the next blog I will tell you the tale of how we turned the industry upside down, to the extent that we probably should call it Industry 2.0.

all these impatient people... i guess you have to wait till the next blog...


I'm not asking for details just want to know what they meant by industry changes and why it needed a change.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Industry 2.0

A couple of hints they've given us that will probably be part of it is the ability to combine CT's and decoders, just putting that in (even if it is gamma only) is going to need some balancing elsewhere. Then there's the roaming ore, that's going to make mining more difficult, so there's going to be some balancing in quantities mined or needed for manufactoring to rebalance there.

6 (edited by Lucius Marcellus 2012-04-04 17:48:02)

Re: Industry 2.0

Maybe I'm mistaken, but given the term 'Industry 2.0' I think we could expect some major changes to the way research and manufacturing is done (also the pbs blog finished with "...how we turned the industry upside down". If this is the case, I have to agree with Celebro - I'm frankly not sure why those changes would be needed at the time being. Without knowing any specifics yet, this is really quite a sensitive area so I can only hope it's well thought out.

Anyhow, for now, let's just wait for the blog smile

Re: Industry 2.0

Actually if you take, "how we turned industry upside down" literally , I hope its not to manufacture on field and mine in terminal lol . Joking aside the upside down comment makes me uneasy and makes me think... Was industry really that bad to begin with?

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Industry 2.0

Maybe they're just removing industry all together and coming to terms with Perp being a PVP only focused game.

Re: Industry 2.0

Arga wrote:

Maybe they're just removing industry all together and coming to terms with Perp being a PVP only focused game.


lol I hope you are not serious, that is highly unlikely as both industry and pvp is needed to create the element of risk.

Your last post made me think about the Mining Towers, I really like that idea implemented else where.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Industry 2.0

When industry is complicated, it takes a large portion of the population to support it. Simplify'd it can still be a part of the game but won't require 80% of players to be miners/producers to feed 20% PVP players; or more acurrately, it won't require all the PVP players to have 1 or more indy alts to support themselves.

Sure, the indy carebears will leave, but that will have little impact on the game play itself, as those roles can be fulfilled part-time by existing Hybrid PVP/Indy players with multiple accounts.

Are they going to do this, guess we'll see in the blog, but it would certainly reduce the development effort and allow them to focus on one aspect of the game.

Re: Industry 2.0

*refrains from strong comments until blog released*

Re: Industry 2.0

Maybe you won't be able to afk mine liquid ores anymore!  Ohhh my, how will some of you survive!?:D

Lonwolf
NSE
"What we do in life, echoes into eternity!" --Gladiator

Re: Industry 2.0

Lucius Marcellus wrote:

*refrains from strong comments until blog released*

Exactly, we won't know until we know. But the question was "Why fix something that's not broken?" and my answer is simply that a revision of industry can go only two ways; more or less complex. Making it more complex doesn't answer the reason why it would be reworked, simplifying it however does; for the above reasons.

14 (edited by Annihilator 2012-04-04 21:12:21)

Re: Industry 2.0

I doubt that they will remove industry - a deep and complex crafting system is one of the selling points of the game...

until you realize that crafting is just another grind

- grind standing
- grind kernels
- grind materials
- grind artifacts

Tell me where someone who didn't finish all the grind, has all his extensions maxed and has no access to a beta can compete with you - Celebro, Arga or Lucius on the market?

And where in your world is a player specialised in hauling/trading located? Where is conflict for resources -
and where are those factions (ICS, Asintec, TM vs. Numiqol, Thelodica and Pelistal) located in the current Crafting system?


btw - "complex" and "complicated" are two different meanings. IMHO atm the crafting system is more complicated then complex...

just a few things that are broken.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

15 (edited by Celebro 2012-04-04 21:29:18)

Re: Industry 2.0

Annihilator wrote:

Tell me where someone who didn't finish all the grind, has all his extensions maxed and has no access to a beta can compete with you - Celebro, Arga or Lucius on the market?

Exactly, good point that's why I have repeatedly said PVP areas are rich in materials, non pvp is where efficient  industry is done. You won't find a BMW Factory in the middle of the Congo Republic which usually is rich in resources, but mostly in Civil war.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Industry 2.0

Celebro wrote:

Exactly, good point that's why I have repeatedly said PVP areas are rich in materials, non pvp is where efficient  industry is done. You won't find a BMW Factory in the middle of the Congo Republic which usually is rich in resources, but mostly in Civil war.

And why you won't find loggers and miners in the congo during a civil war either; regardless of how rich the resources are.

Re: Industry 2.0

Arga wrote:
Celebro wrote:

Exactly, good point that's why I have repeatedly said PVP areas are rich in materials, non pvp is where efficient  industry is done. You won't find a BMW Factory in the middle of the Congo Republic which usually is rich in resources, but mostly in Civil war.

And why you won't find loggers and miners in the congo during a civil war either; regardless of how rich the resources are.

if the loggers could find diamond trees there then you would find them...

Re: Industry 2.0

Zortarg II wrote:
Arga wrote:
Celebro wrote:

Exactly, good point that's why I have repeatedly said PVP areas are rich in materials, non pvp is where efficient  industry is done. You won't find a BMW Factory in the middle of the Congo Republic which usually is rich in resources, but mostly in Civil war.

And why you won't find loggers and miners in the congo during a civil war either; regardless of how rich the resources are.

if the loggers could find diamond trees there then you would find them...

If diamonds grew on trees, they wouldn't be as valuable, so probably not.

Re: Industry 2.0

Arga wrote:
Celebro wrote:

Exactly, good point that's why I have repeatedly said PVP areas are rich in materials, non pvp is where efficient  industry is done. You won't find a BMW Factory in the middle of the Congo Republic which usually is rich in resources, but mostly in Civil war.

And why you won't find loggers and miners in the congo during a civil war either; regardless of how rich the resources are.

unfortunately those are unskilled workers, not highly skilled mechanical engineers, those stay in safe areas.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Industry 2.0

I totally lost track of what we were talking about.

21 (edited by Lucius Marcellus 2012-04-04 22:37:15)

Re: Industry 2.0

Annihilator wrote:

- grind standing

A good standing only takes a day or two these days.

Annihilator wrote:

- grind kernels

I agree this is a grind. But then, really what are the options? Of course you need a grind somewhere unless you want every 1-day old character to have all T4 research. Further, most of the light-kernel based gear is rather easy to get. Oh and yes, you can buy them! (I've bought 99.99% of my kernels from market)

Annihilator wrote:

- grind materials
- grind artifacts

Or just buy them?

Annihilator wrote:

...has all his extensions maxed...

A well-planned 3 month old industry character can compete quite well actually, 10/10/10 is really not needed to be competitive on the market (10/9/8 will get you very far).

Annihilator wrote:

and has no access to a beta can compete with you

You mean like me? I never had beta access and I've managed to cope quite well.

Really, you've way overstated the 'grindiness' of industry.

Annihilator wrote:

...and where in your world is a player specialised in hauling/trading located?

Agree on this, but more islands and less alpha-triangle will bring more significance to this already.

Annihilator wrote:

Where is conflict for resources?

You mean Epriton, and the new ore on gamma islands? The fact that no one is fighting for them is just a reflection of the low population, not a need for changes to industry necessarily. Yes, ore specific to each beta island for example would be interesting, but really not an urgent change.

Annihilator wrote:

Where are those factions (ICS, Asintec, TM vs. Numiqol, Thelodica and Pelistal) located in the current Crafting system?

I know you're a huge proponent of faction-specific production, but as I've mentioned in other threads where this has been discussed, this seems like an awful lot of work for very small gains - I can only hope that is not what Industry 2.0 is about.

Re: Industry 2.0

Ah, that's what we were talking about.

Looking at the current corps on beta, they are holding outposts with around 10 pvp robots, but they need 20 to 30 miners and harvester accounts to gather materials. (not players, but indy players with 4 or 5 Riveler mk ii's out there daily mining to build bots and modules).

Many PVP players are having to have a second or third account that also mines/harvests to keep up with the material demands.

This is what I'm talking about, in a game where PVP is supposed to be the main selling point, the majority of accounts are gathering (not so much manf. because it really only takes 1 or 2 accounts, other than needing redundancy in case one of them quits).

Simplification in this case, would mean reducing the number of players that need to be doing industrial in a large corporation, by extension this would also make earning a living as an indy on the open market harder since it would be 'flooded' to many of them would stop. But at this point, with population so low, if a game is going to make a radical change in how things are done, they may as well do it when the population is lowest.

Re: Industry 2.0

Lonwolf wrote:

Maybe you won't be able to afk mine liquid ores anymore!  Ohhh my, how will some of you survive!?:D



NO!!!!! My main source of income!

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

24 (edited by Lucius Marcellus 2012-04-04 23:36:22)

Re: Industry 2.0

Okay, I'll take the bite.

Firstly, the selling point of this game is a sci-fi sandbox with all that entails, not only PvP. Many people have indeed pointed out how important PvE is for the game. With a huge PvP updating coming with Gamma islands and PBS, I really don't see a need to push more for PvP changes.

Secondly, corps that run that ratio of PvP:Industry are doing it extremely inefficiently. If you are on beta, you can easily make 8m/h, but probably far more. 8m should be enough for 2 quite well fitted assaults, no?

(by inefficient I mean that they either spend their time mining titan ore while they could mine epriton, or outright give their members very bad deals)

Re: Industry 2.0

Lucius Marcellus wrote:

Okay, I'll take the bite.

Firstly, the selling point of this game is a sci-fi sandbox with all that entails, not only PvP. Many people have indeed pointed out how important PvE is for the game.

Secondly, corps that run that ratio of PvP:Industry are doing it extremely inefficiently. If you are on beta, you can easily make 8m/h, but probably far more. 8m should be enough for 2 quite well fitted assaults, no?

(by inefficient I mean that they either spend their time mining titan ore while they could mine epriton, or outright give their members very bad deals)

They are not going to do away from Industry.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.