Re: A simple recipe for victory

If you want to fit medium missiles on light sh*t, fit mickey mouse troiars with 2 med launchers. 400-500m range ftw, those lil' bastards can pack a punch. I killed an artemis with one, he was all fuuu in PM. lol

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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Re: A simple recipe for victory

Annihilator wrote:

basicly, they all had a single small neut fitted on their asssaults, that was it. At that time, they didn't even need masking to get close to any mech to instantly use them.

Truth...

and yeah the Troier with 2 meds is a real Mickey

Participate, Congratulate cause everything else will be seen as HATE.
Max yellow max all skills lvl 10 min max for the win

Re: A simple recipe for victory

dont tell me about the med trojar - i tried to get a squad of them online during beta already. especially since they can use double RSA at the same time, leaving headslots open for damage tunings or such, and still beeing way fastern then any mech.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: A simple recipe for victory

Saddest thing is, since the game released (roughly a year), the Devs have added...

1. Artifact system.
2. 6 new islands.
3. ... ?

All in all VERY poor for a 1-year old game. sad

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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Re: A simple recipe for victory

Syndic wrote:

Saddest thing is, since the game released (roughly a year), the Devs have added...

1. Artifact system.
2. 6 new islands.
3. ... ?

All in all VERY poor for a 1-year old game. sad

Add stuff to beta...and presto A Win 1 Year Old Game.

I don't think its a poor game...just a poor showing of what the Dev Team is really capable of accomplishing

Just Sayin
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Re: A simple recipe for victory

Syndic wrote:

Saddest thing is, since the game released (roughly a year), the Devs have added...

1. Artifact system.
2. 6 new islands.
3. ... ?

All in all VERY poor for a 1-year old game. sad

If we talk about stable things, then yes.
If we talk about everything, then:
- ERP
- Teleport beacons
- Interference
- MK2

And actually islands not stable too. smile

The developers are not all-powerful. They can do something one of these:
- Add new
- Change the old one.

This is not sandbox. This is a Box of Chocolates...

82 (edited by Syndic 2011-10-03 08:28:21)

Re: A simple recipe for victory

Hunter wrote:
Syndic wrote:

Saddest thing is, since the game released (roughly a year), the Devs have added...

1. Artifact system.
2. 6 new islands.
3. ... ?

All in all VERY poor for a 1-year old game. sad

If we talk about stable things, then yes.
If we talk about everything, then:
- ERP
- Teleport beacons
- Interference
- MK2

And actually islands not stable too. smile

The developers are not all-powerful. They can do something one of these:
- Add new
- Change the old one.

Its still very poor and slow-paced Hunter. Most of those ideas anyone with two brain cells could come up with in ~1 evening, and interference was only implemented because at the time Styx was still god's gift of super-organizational skillz in the eyes of the Chosen Ugars. hmm

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: A simple recipe for victory

Interference was a anti-big-light-bot-blob measure. It failed to deliver, as anithing in game can be overwhelmed by a far smaller number of light bots then the interference kicks in.

It didnt make the big groups split up into smaller tast forces, because the small group doesn't work against a gropho+symbiont blob (which has a high threshold for interference because they are heavy mechs).

the second anti-blob measure was AoE Robot explosions - as far as i can tell, it didnt change much, just that short range weapons are not much of an option (why fitting half range weapon when the difference is only 10% in DPS for laser? why using short range missiles when you can bombard your target from save behind cover?)

detection system:
Increasing the radar range up to 2km while maintaining the same islandsize... you know why its bad
masking beeing a % increase of the base masking value of your robot, and with same values as detection =
very bad.  note: industrial robots are shining light-beacons on a landmarklist...

ERP:
was a great idea, but several factors are just off:
- t1 - t3 have been useless, except on blue bot, and after two nerfs, they are useless on any bot
- nerfing the ERP, instead of preventing fitting an injector at the same time = fail
- production costs of those are insane

General balancing changes:

theres a general issue with the bad copy of some features from EvE. one example is the Accumulator mechanic,
the other one the weapontypes, the third one the locking system.

The Locking system is one of the main issues why we wont see bigger-then-one tile mechs. (overexaggerated: a 9 tile long vehicle could hide from shots behind a 1 tile indestructible lightpole)

The accumulator with 50% peak recharge is a very very bad copy of eve. Its the cause for all the capstability whining topics which will never end as long as the peak stays there.

Weapon stabs: with them introduced, ALL medium weapons should have had their dispersion increased by 100% along with some other changes i have mentioned earlier here. The concept of small and medium weapons in this game is simply: your in a small bot, fit small weapons, your in a mech fit medium weapons. do not fit any other weapons then your bot has a bonus for because they wont do any significant damage only slow you down. (firarms are out of the equatation). there is also not much of a reason to fit anything but 1 type of weapon, because the ammo takes up all your cargo, and all weapons can deal all damage types with different ammos. Choosing your weapon is a matter of GFX... nothing more.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: A simple recipe for victory

Anni wrote all good points.
I have some 50 cents:
1. As Syndic sayd interference was designed only after some blob-fights, and as Anni said anti-big-light-bot-blob measure. Hard to disagree, because alot of older players remember those times. But features like interference and AoE damage are unavoidable in MMO, because people have herd instinct, and sooner or later interference+AoE should be implemented. "Hokkogaros Crusade" was an catalyst to implement them.

2. Detection system is broken. Say me what will you wear up in a gang: N maskers for each bot or 1 fast dedicated detector? Yeah, there is different type of bots, whith different values in masking, but for now usage of dedicated detector is more valuable and profitable than N maskers.

Re: A simple recipe for victory

Alexadar wrote:

Anni wrote all good points.
I have some 50 cents:
1. As Syndic sayd interference was designed only after some blob-fights, and as Anni said anti-big-light-bot-blob measure. Hard to disagree, because alot of older players remember those times. But features like interference and AoE damage are unavoidable in MMO, because people have herd instinct, and sooner or later interference+AoE should be implemented. "Hokkogaros Crusade" was an catalyst to implement them.

2. Detection system is broken. Say me what will you wear up in a gang: N maskers for each bot or 1 fast dedicated detector? Yeah, there is different type of bots, whith different values in masking, but for now usage of dedicated detector is more valuable and profitable than N maskers.


Thats the key problem with detector balance. One module must be countered by X modules, where X is your squad size.

1:X

Squad size of 20 you must equip 20 maskers to counter a single detector. There should be a better option.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

86 (edited by Mara Kaid 2011-10-03 16:59:43)

Re: A simple recipe for victory

Masking module that masks your squad within 100m, would be fun to skill for. antiblobski certified.

Re: A simple recipe for victory

Sun - masking a whole squad is a whole different strategy.

And while its true a roaming party can't jump an entire squad through the TP and avoid a single scout 2km away, neither can the defender hide an entire squad if you send through a detector scout to make sure its clear; unless either side all fits maskers.

Offense and defense on the mask/dect is balanced because there is no advantage for either side; if they BOTH use scouts.

Being able to mask a whole squad means you could travel without scouting and giving away your intent. That's actually imbalanced in the other direction IMO.

Re: A simple recipe for victory

Good point Arga, but I feel there should be more options for stealthy travel around Nia.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: A simple recipe for victory

Annihilator wrote:

dont want to nitpic, but what are you denying?

i already said - it has no advantage atm, nor is it possible (and i want to see your waspish with two medium launcher, as one of the two medium slots is a turret/misc/industrial slot wink)

theory crafting at its worst :-) but I'd like a viable waspish with 2 med launchers :-)

90 (edited by Syndic 2011-10-04 13:15:17)

Re: A simple recipe for victory

Arga wrote:

Sun - masking a whole squad is a whole different strategy.

And while its true a roaming party can't jump an entire squad through the TP and avoid a single scout 2km away, neither can the defender hide an entire squad if you send through a detector scout to make sure its clear; unless either side all fits maskers.

Offense and defense on the mask/dect is balanced because there is no advantage for either side; if they BOTH use scouts.

Being able to mask a whole squad means you could travel without scouting and giving away your intent. That's actually imbalanced in the other direction IMO.

It's not possible to dodge anything there Arga.

1. If you jump your whole squad, there will either be an arkhe/light bot on the gate which is/can be invunerable because of TP protection timers.
2. If you jump your detector alt-bot, they will see that and know who's coming and what they're bringing just based on "Corp tag = usually roams with X = usually roams in Y".

Recently I took my guys out for 4-5 roams to Alsbale, and I was literally accused of destroying the game and their alliance because after we won the few initial engagements where they had more heavy mechs then we had DPS mechs they stopped coming online.

To my reply that we'll come again tomorrow, I was told they'd play alts on Alpha until we get bored & leave. That sums up what Beta is these days, people dodging each other until the other side gets bored & leaves and then complaining that there's noone playing the game/nobody on Beta/nobody dares to fight them/blah blah.

Which brings up a fundamental problem, there is no reason whatsoever to fight. And if there was a reason, we'd end up with complaining about 5-6 AM alarmclock raids/ops because that's what people do. They avoid "difficult" fights and wait until its either ez-mode or nothing else but.

That's why POS will not solve anything, even if it'll give us the "fun" of shooting at a structure for X hours. smile

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Re: A simple recipe for victory

syndic, thats my point, and thats the reason why i want the PvE part to be more entertaining and with a semi-goal.

If the NPC factions capture islands and outposts just like player would (or an AI in an RTS game would do), then the playerbase would have a reason to fight them back, with no static spawns anywhere to "farm" them countless hours.

the PvE combat Part would be much more similar to the PvP part, and mental barrier would be much lower to participate in PvP then now.

At the same time, mining/production could be made less time intensive as even the PvE player would have constant losses. Losing your robot should be a normal part in PvE, just like you expect to lose your little zergswarm when sending it into your opponents base, but you also expect to take enough of his worker or buildings down before the groups is annihilated.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: A simple recipe for victory

Syndic wrote:

It's not possible to dodge anything there Arga.

There's no module that provides players with the will to fight smile

Being able to 'sneak' a squad on someway will work a couple times, maybe, but if they don't want to fight they'll just not go out to beta. So, in the context of maksing/detection, its still balanced because as you point out the issue isn't the modules its the players.

POS may provide reasons to fight, depending on what they are. But I haven't really heard anything about POS coming anytime soon, outposts yes, but not any type of player built structures.

If player activity is so jaded that players simply refuse to fight for anything that is developed, then the devs will have to step in and take some kind of action. Using Nex and Foom as examples of new corporations that came in with the will and manpower, but not the experience or EP to take and hold outposts. They were willing but unable to compete, but if the vetern players aren't willing, then the obvious solution to save the game would be to reset the veterns and let the game restart with a new batch of players. Or to manually disolve vetern corporations and don't allow them to reform, allowing individuals to keep thier EP but nothing else.

Sounds super suckey no? Given the choice between the game being unplayable and failing, or intervening and losing the first 'batch' of players, which would you choose as a Dev? Unlikley that any company would ride a failing game into the ground simply to avoid pissing off a few hundred subscribers.

But obviously thats not a desireable recourse for anyone. Sure you can put it on the devs saying they need to create the right incentives and rewards to encourage beta useage, but if players refuse to accept the changes - basically holding the game hostage for imbalanced rewards, then they'll have to intervene at the player level in some form.

I don't think we aren't even close to that scenerio yet, any major change would need many months live before anyone would even start thinking about that level of action. Nor do I think anyone needs to change any behaviour at this time, just simply understand that game worlds are not inviolable.

Re: A simple recipe for victory

Arga wrote:
Syndic wrote:

It's not possible to dodge anything there Arga.

There's no module that provides players with the will to fight smile

Being able to 'sneak' a squad on someway will work a couple times, maybe, but if they don't want to fight they'll just not go out to beta. So, in the context of maksing/detection, its still balanced because as you point out the issue isn't the modules its the players.

POS may provide reasons to fight, depending on what they are. But I haven't really heard anything about POS coming anytime soon, outposts yes, but not any type of player built structures.

If player activity is so jaded that players simply refuse to fight for anything that is developed, then the devs will have to step in and take some kind of action. Using Nex and Foom as examples of new corporations that came in with the will and manpower, but not the experience or EP to take and hold outposts. They were willing but unable to compete, but if the vetern players aren't willing, then the obvious solution to save the game would be to reset the veterns and let the game restart with a new batch of players. Or to manually disolve vetern corporations and don't allow them to reform, allowing individuals to keep thier EP but nothing else.

Sounds super suckey no? Given the choice between the game being unplayable and failing, or intervening and losing the first 'batch' of players, which would you choose as a Dev? Unlikley that any company would ride a failing game into the ground simply to avoid pissing off a few hundred subscribers.

But obviously thats not a desireable recourse for anyone. Sure you can put it on the devs saying they need to create the right incentives and rewards to encourage beta useage, but if players refuse to accept the changes - basically holding the game hostage for imbalanced rewards, then they'll have to intervene at the player level in some form.

I don't think we aren't even close to that scenerio yet, any major change would need many months live before anyone would even start thinking about that level of action. Nor do I think anyone needs to change any behaviour at this time, just simply understand that game worlds are not inviolable.

Devs disbanding corps and preventing players from playing together? Yeah, right... Like that wouldn't result in PTSD-diagnosed visitors with automatic rifles knocking on the door. lol

It's up to them to make the game, not up to the players to jump through hoops trying to come up with reasons to fight. Sorry but you're taking it too far, its their job and their future they're working for, the players are just fish in a sea filled with a lot of other MMO's and a lot of other companies making MMO's.

Company interfering like that would get so much *** they'd be lucky to see another sub, nevermind any form of increase after all those lovely veterans with 8-10-20 accounts each started mass-cancelling. Hell, look what happened in EVE just because of a 60$ monocle. lol

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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Re: A simple recipe for victory

Arga wrote:

Or to manually disolve vetern corporations and don't allow them to reform, allowing individuals to keep thier EP but nothing else.

Whats is more professional: to fix a reason, or to heal symptoms?

Re: A simple recipe for victory

well, resetting M2S helped three times now to boost playerbase big_smile
this time it would be CIR...

but i do not really want to see something like that again -> its like Diablo2 Ladder reset, getting old after some time, and by far not "persistant" ...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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96 (edited by Norrdec 2011-10-05 12:00:54)

Re: A simple recipe for victory

Yes, reset the corporation that grinded and burned out a few of people just to fight the late hackers lol Great idea, you should run for president of Poland, you think just like Jaroslaw Kaczynski! big_smile

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: A simple recipe for victory

Annihilator wrote:

well, resetting M2S helped three times now to boost playerbase big_smile
this time it would be CIR...

but i do not really want to see something like that again -> its like Diablo2 Ladder reset, getting old after some time, and by far not "persistant" ...

That's apples and oranges tbh.

M2S abused the insurance and got their NIC removed (but were allowed for some reason to keep the materials and kernels they bought prior to that), then there was some duping and they got wiped and their CEO banned for it.

CIR on the other hand, only abused... hm. Well, we do emphasize playing as a team and prize teamwork above all. That's not against any rule as far as I know. lol

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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Re: A simple recipe for victory

I didn't say anything about resetting CIR! Let me say again, I don't think we're anywhere near needing that radical of an interdiction. This isn't corp dialog ...

99 (edited by Syndic 2011-10-05 18:00:12)

Re: A simple recipe for victory

Arga wrote:

I didn't say anything about resetting CIR! Let me say again, I don't think we're anywhere near needing that radical of an interdiction. This isn't corp dialog ...

I replied to your post in the general sense that it was written (so I understood it), there are many veteran established corps out there (not just CIR) that have people with 10-20 accounts. Some have more of these people, some have less. Devs stepping in to disband/reset these corporations, actively interfere and prevent them from playing together would result in only 2 things: massive unsubs (for scale of Perpetuum anyway) and sh*tstorm of bad press. smile

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: A simple recipe for victory

Syndic - CIRs current form is not different from the reason for the first global server reset during beta.

its not about the mental state or the tactics of CIR - its simply the state of your corp storage and your knowledge base, no matter how you have archieved it.

i do not blame CIR for anything, its a game issue. You did not hammer on DEVs to remove save epriton spots while mining them 24h the day for several weeks (just as an example).

but as arga wrote, thats a whole other story...

noone has the intention to build a wall...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear