that was actually not what the topic creator had in mind, nor stated anywhere - thats what the interpretation of all initial counter-arguments was.

BUT- I FULLY SUPPORT the idea that

"small bots with small weapons should not be able to kill a high-extension+equip heavy mech that is not fitted for highspeed, no matter the count of the small bots."

"heavy mech with medium weapons only should not be able to kill a small bot in one shot with close to 100% chance from one volley, no matter how high his extensions are"

note: every word in that sentence has its meaning and cannot be left out of the statement. i care to explain further if you want.

*edit: highlighted word that was overseen, and added second sentence to make it even more clear

On other games basing balancing decisions on cost might be a good model, but in a time based skilling model where new players can never catch up on EP would be a disaster. Everything should be possible in a sandbox the only limit is in your imagination and drive to accomplish such tasks. The best weapon for new players would be a zerg with an organised group and enough numbers should be able to mitigate most disadvantages the low skills might bring. In a sandbox the sky is the the limit, invulnerablilty breaks most of the aspects of what I would define as a sandbox game.

There is also another issue with linear progression where,ten times the cost should mean ten times better. Why? Most older players would be able to grind the resources for a heavy mech at roughly the same time it takes newer players to grind for lights and fittings. Who is risking more in this case? They are both risking the same, cost is only a matter of perspective.

Whats Wrong with a bot being able to tank 10 bots (EXAMPLE) but 1 ECM Bot can remove its already dminished offence as well 1 Draining bot can neutralize it.

One ECMer can jam 3-4 People Permanitly.. 1 Supressor can make his range almost negligible.

The idea is that as a player moves to one extreme a bot to just a equiv extreme in its counter will easily and swiftly take care of it.

I am generalizing and not going in to specifics but i hope you see my point

I'm all about the single counter bot, so yes if 1 ECM bot can counter and kill a bot that can tank 10 'somethings' there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. However, to get into actual balance, there has to be some limits on what those 10 bots are capable of.

Lets say a bot can tank 300 thermal damage per second (DPS) indefinetly, acc stable around 50%. That's a amount of a specific type acheived through extensions and modules. For every thermal point above 300 the tank will lose the armor battle. The more thermal dps over 300 the faster the bot is killed. If some small bost are able to apply 302 thermal dps, it's unlikley they would kill a bot with 4000 armor before running out of ammo. If those same bots could apply 1000 thermal dps, then that same 4000 armor won't last long losing 700 per second. The actual number of bots isn't relevant.

The damage capacity of the tank needs to have some balance in reality to what a similarly equipt and extensioned pilot could apply. S

I started writing a long eloquent post, then I remembered the Devs are self-admittedly buffing light bots and nerfing "advanced mechs" to give new players a fighting chance, and then I realized I'm going to argue PVP balance with two guys of which 1 never PVP's, and the other is a PVE alpha-oriented producer.

No hard feelings brosefs, but imho it is waste of time. Devs gonna do what devs gonna do, none of us is gonna be asked about feedback unless we're in the magical Skype contact-list. o/

some of those PvP unbalance things affect us PvE players too, especially with each upgrade of the AI or the spawn mechanic.

atm, npc spawns are still static, just with a bit more random content. thats not harder, because its still one npc after another, which we can shoot down with our farming builds before they even have a chance to fully lock us.

you see the ultra-carebear china farmers complaining about any changes towards PvE that turns it a slightly more into the PvP balance direction ("what, roaming yagels targeting lone riveler MK2 - OH NOES!!!") There you have exactly the same issues.
You are facing a full swarm of mindless, random fitted light npcs which can kill you if you stay in their range for a second to long, and one of them has ecm+demob.

result:
noo, by no means upgrade the AI, or those dumb PvP balancing issues will affect carebears too. after all, NPCs comming in groups of 3+ all the time.

It's not intended to be an insult.

I'm not saying you are unable to understand PVP (lol, so difficult to understand...), I'm saying you don't have the practical experience to "supplement" your theorycrafting and your opinion.

Example:

1. Hypothetically, it's an extremely awesome idea to fit +2 missile launchers on a Kain, because you get ~100 damage extra on your alpha-strike in exchange for a few (2-4) KPH.
2. Practically, mention that to a PVPer and you'll be the laughing stock of the TS channel for the next half an hour.

You understand what I mean?

Whats wrong with mickey mouse kains? I've only seen one person pvp with mickey kain and he was a green pilot cross trained to use a kain.

hey syndic - care to elaborate why fitting a kain that way is so laughable?
(actually i know the answers, but i like to hear yours)

@hug ruka:
there are actually medium weapon slots on ALL combat bots. why isnt it a valid build to have 1 medium +2 small weapons on your small bot? because its not possible under current item balance, and has no advantage.

two small weapons on a small bot = same dps as 1 medium weapon on a mech, no matter what the target is.

The medium slots on the Baphomet are indy and misc slots too. Maybe fitting a couple med drainers, or med RSA, or some combo would be a nice anti-tank bot in PVP, but I'm just guessing since I have no practical experience.

Chaos Pioneered some very effective Tank-Buster assault builds awhile ago and were the first to take down a ERP Tanked bot. I dont know the exact fits but you can see there use in one of there videos they have, hunter will probably be able to link it.

actualy no ...

waspish:

2 medium missile slots - no bonuses
5 small missile slots - up to 50% damage bonus

1. fitting medium missiles: compacts have 3x the base damage but you also have 2x the cycle time. so you get 3x2/2 = 3

2. fitting light missiles: 5x1.5 = 7.5

conclusion: sticking to lights gives you twice the damage.